Testing audiophile claims and myths - Page 126

I'm soooo disillusioned.  I thought it was "Eggs, Rugs and Rock and Roll".  Now I have to throw out my entire collection of eggs.  And rugs. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfac73 

why is that? Have you tried to burn cds both ways?

didn't think so

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfac73 

why is that? Have you tried to burn cds both ways?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfac73 

didn't think so

You don't have to try everything yourself.

But I've burned countless CDs using my laptop connected to mains power and all were perfect, i.e. bit for bit the same as the source.

If that's not the case for you, something in the laptop is clearly broken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drez 


IMo the ability of science to account for the experience of life is very limited, I don't mean that it is useless or incorrect, but just limited in what it can predict. For me my direct experience comes first and foremost above a priorised mentally constructed determination of what my experience will be. Science enters to help make sense of what I directly perceive.

 

This statement misrepresents, or fundamentally misunderstands the hypothetico-deductive method. Additionally, it is generalized to the point of absurdity. Whether you choose to utilize the scientific method in your audio-related decision making or not, you cannot simply disregard the scientific method when it is incongruent with whatever point you are making. Scientific inquiry is the basis of all (learned) knowledge (imprinted and instinctual knowledge excluded), and the scientific process, in and of itself should be beyond reproach.

You can question the assumptions, conclusions, process, or procedure of any individual or experiment. But, disregarding the scientific method as a whole is ridiculous. Doing so undermines every single aspect of human knowledge and learning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drez 

I think you touched upon my point, scientific method is fine for scientific research, But it does not override what I directly observe, except in extreme cases.

The problem is that what you directly observe can be unreliable and biased, unless the right measures (double-blind testing, etc.) are taken to eliminate all sources of bias. This is something that has been known to science and proven for a long time, but is apparently very hard for audiophiles to accept (even banned here at the other sub-forums).

Quote:

Originally Posted by drez 

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootsit 

This statement misrepresents, or fundamentally misunderstands the hypothetico-deductive method. Additionally, it is generalized to the point of absurdity. Whether you choose to utilize the scientific method in your audio-related decision making or not, you cannot simply disregard the scientific method when it is incongruent with whatever point you are making. Scientific inquiry is the basis of all (learned) knowledge (imprinted and instinctual knowledge excluded), and the scientific process, in and of itself should be beyond reproach.

I think you touched upon my point, scientific method is fine for scientific research, But it does not override what I directly observe, except in extreme cases. Fact is though that the science being brought to bear against "audiophile claims" is generally piecemeal and of limited scope and sample size. The vast majority would not pass for academic research. I do not consider it comprehensive.

 You are right, anti-audiophile nonsense is frequently undersampled, while audiophile nonsense has little basis in reality and is unsampled. That is neither here nor there, because I frankly don't care. Admittedly, contrary examples likely exist for both.

I am responding exclusively to your absolute disregard for the scientific method. The scientific method is contingent upon repeatable observation. To assert that your observation of the world supersedes well established and rigorously tested theory is ridiculous. Science is based on repeated and repeatable observation. I think you should review the hypothetico-deductive method, then reconsider your statements. You have not presently passed judgement on the application of the underreplicated pseudo-science of these boards, but rather, you have cast aspersion on science as a practice, the scientific method, and the philosophy of science.

In short, just because it looks like the sun revolves around the earth doesn't make it so.

For your edification: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Quote:

Originally Posted by drez 

This is true, but unfortunately double blind testing and objective measurements are not practical for the vast majority of the decisions we make. If you can organise such testing for specific decisions this is great, and certainly generous in terms of providing a more reliable data point for other people.

If the observation is not made under properly controlled conditions, then there is no evidence that it is true, and it could very well be false, even if it is the same for the majority. If you look at this picture,

do you trust your observation that B is a lighter shade of grey than A (especially after it is backed up by 10 out of 10 other people looking at it and also saying that B is lighter), or the measurement tool of the image editor that says that they are exactly the same ? What do you observe now, with the source of bias removed: