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Radius HP-TWF11r Review and Impressions thread - Page 51

post #751 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

I'd agree with the other suggestions Mark, it's not actually a great idea to be trying to get a perfect seal with these. I used Sony hybrids with them for a while, since they were most comfortable, but combined with their relatively small aperture and softness it did lead to a bit of bass bloat. The most recommended tips for these tend to be tips with apertures that are no smaller than the actual nozzle themselves - for instance, UE single flanges. I'm using some tip from god knows what, its either a Audio Technica tip or one of the original tips, I don't get a vacuum seal feeling like I do with the hybrids, and to me the bass isn't oppressive. Sure, they are always going to have to have more bass than treble, but I guess we're all hoping that you can appreciate what they offer especially on certain tracks. If not though, to each their own :) I have a friend who finds my DDMs too warm for his taste for example, and much prefers my RE0's. His favourite genre of music is metal, which is probably too fast even for the DDMs.

 

On a related note, looking at the Radius, the Monster Turbines and now the new insanely priced Sony EX1000's (really insanely mind you... at that price why not a custom?) it seems like dynamics are entering their golden age. I'd hate to see BA's disappear though - I hate seeing 'old but good' technologies get pushed aside, like plasma TV's for instance.

 

my own thoughts on the surge of dynamics is that ts a combo of them getting good enought as some are fantastic but thats its largely driven by a desire to move as much air as possible to satisfy the mass market element.  those people who simply equate more bass with being the samo thing as better, bose, skullcandy, etc buyers.  for my ears moving too much air just gets uncomfortable and ultimately painfull.  its why i largely stopped going to pubs and clubs because i couldnt take the shitty quality stupidly loud music and levels of bass that actually made me feel ill. 
 

 

whilre i can see the DDM as an interesting idea upon hearing it i just think its marketing gone crazy as the way its tuned there is clearly no need for that second driver.  its subscribing to the more = better philosophy and this implementation simply is not.  there is also just no need to have such a massive driver so close to your ear anyway to produce low notes.  again i feels its marketing and "ooh sony did it" thats the ovor riding influence.    im sure in time multi driver dynamics may take off but it needs to happens for acoustic reasons rather than bigger number = better mentality , be it driver size or the number of them.

 

i really dont see BA going away in the higher end however they will stay out of the mass market arena just as they pretty much always have

post #752 of 864

  Mark you make some good points, and i certainly agree with your comment about marketing and sound signatures. This is the reason i haven't owned a sony earphone for the past ten years. V shaped sound with booming, smearing bass and piercing treble has become the norm in the mass market and it's not a sound signature i personally care for. 

 

  Still, i think most would agree that the sound produced by good quality speakers is the sound that (non studio monitoring) portable phones should try to emulate. A neutral sounding system of speakers will, most of the time, produce a more natural sound than a BA based iem and one of the reasons this happens is that the speaker will push allot more air.

 

  The same recording can sound much different through a pair of neutral BA phones than through a pair of neutral speakers, and some phone makers are trying to compensate for that fact. I think the Radius falls to that category, as it's an iem that tries to produce a natural timbre while adding the extension to the low end that most iems lack. A little less bass and a little more forward treble would be welcome of course, but tuning so small a driver to perfection is hard to impossible and besides, forward highs can be very fatiguing when not done right.

 

[EDIT]

  When i say  wish the DDMs had "a little less less bass and a little more forward treble" i am talking about how they sound with the default tips, the way they sound with the flanges i put on them, is night and day compared to their original sound. It's the first time i see such a HUGE difference in sound by changing the tips. I really wish you could hear the result. I will definitely post some pics of the flanges (they aren't audio technica flanges after all) when i post a more detailed review of the DDMs and the ATH-CKM70.

 

  I will say it again though, find some flanges that have a small diameter, that are long and have a big opening for sound to get through.


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 9/5/10 at 3:41am
post #753 of 864

That's just look so wrong! those iem are not designed to be wear over the ear, get over it. And your ear canal also look all wrong. 

To get back on track on the bass subject I thing an increasing number of people now own 5.1 system with subwoofer and got used to that rumbling bass and many manufacturers try to reproduce that in their iem with relative success.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post




I was going to wait until my review to post any pictures but here you go although I might take some better pictures if I get around to it.

 

IMG_1398.jpgIMG_1401.jpg

post #754 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post




I was going to wait until my review to post any pictures but here you go although I might take some better pictures if I get around to it.

 

 

Haha, I was talking about the TWF21, and the guys who designed the housing of it. The TWF11r is fine. Borderline bizarre but with the fit on the first picture you showed, I find they're the most comfortable IEMs I've ever worn.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenpunk View Post

That's just look so wrong! those iem are not designed to be wear over the ear, get over it. And your ear canal also look all wrong. 

To get back on track on the bass subject I thing an increasing number of people now own 5.1 system with subwoofer and got used to that rumbling bass and many manufacturers try to reproduce that in their iem with relative success.
 


 


Too bad. Wearing them straight down -> paaain. Wearing them over the ear like that -> so comfortable.. sure it looks silly but so, so comfortable.

post #755 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2410 View Post

whilre i can see the DDM as an interesting idea upon hearing it i just think its marketing gone crazy as the way its tuned there is clearly no need for that second driver.  its subscribing to the more = better philosophy and this implementation simply is not.  there is also just no need to have such a massive driver so close to your ear anyway to produce low notes.  again i feels its marketing and "ooh sony did it" thats the ovor riding influence.    im sure in time multi driver dynamics may take off but it needs to happens for acoustic reasons rather than bigger number = better mentality , be it driver size or the number of them.

 

i really dont see BA going away in the higher end however they will stay out of the mass market arena just as they pretty much always have

 

You make some valid points, and the DDM may just not be your cup of tea. I think though a key point to take away is that a whole bunch of users here are happy with the sound, and as its considered a top-tier/near top tier sound for an extremely reasonable price, I think the implementation really is good.

 

I know from the driver flex issue I know exactly what each individual driver sounds like on the DDM oddly enough. The delicate, dry little details in the sound sig would not be there without the treble driver, and that incredible timbre wouldn't be there without the bass driver. While it might be possible to get the same sound of using one really good driver as opposed to two, every single company with a similar single driver dynamic - FX700, Monster Turbine Pros, Sennheiser IE8, etc, are charging more - and sometimes several times more.

 

We might disagree, and thats okay, but I think Radius has hit upon a winning formula with their dual driver configuration. They just need to work on the ergonomics! : P

post #756 of 864

@ a_recording and  all those head-fiers who have been trying,  in the last pages of this thread and not only, to express their thoughts and feelings on DDM and why we seem to like it, or in case of my mate Mark2410, hate it. By the way for those who have not liked my comment on page 50,   I am sorry about that. I have been added to a "black list" of this individual and I am surprised you still are not, after all you are just reaffirming what I have stated in my threads on DDMs.

But anyways, Thank you for supporting and reinforcing my own feeling on DDM by Radius. 

Nevertheless,  all of us hear and interpret sounds and waves differently and some of us possibly do not hear at all, ain't that a shame?

 

post #757 of 864

  It seems that the next DDM will be more to Mark's liking (among others) in the sonic department. Less bass, more treble and even better midrange: http://ameblo.jp/e-earphone/entry-10636105058.html . It's even bigger and uglier than the hp-twf11r though, it kind of reminds me  the ath-cks90.

post #758 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post



 

You make some valid points, and the DDM may just not be your cup of tea. I think though a key point to take away is that a whole bunch of users here are happy with the sound, and as its considered a top-tier/near top tier sound for an extremely reasonable price, I think the implementation really is good.

 

I know from the driver flex issue I know exactly what each individual driver sounds like on the DDM oddly enough. The delicate, dry little details in the sound sig would not be there without the treble driver, and that incredible timbre wouldn't be there without the bass driver. While it might be possible to get the same sound of using one really good driver as opposed to two, every single company with a similar single driver dynamic - FX700, Monster Turbine Pros, Sennheiser IE8, etc, are charging more - and sometimes several times more.

 

We might disagree, and thats okay, but I think Radius has hit upon a winning formula with their dual driver configuration. They just need to work on the ergonomics! : P


while clearly i can always appreciate that what works for an individual the most doesnt always mean that it must have the best performance.  as i have oft said i much prefer the IE7 to the IE8 even though the 8 is the better performing of the two.  i fear some have trouble distinguishing between what they like and whats technically better.  so i have no trouble people saying the DDM is their fav and they would take it over other bass monsters like the C710, HJE900, IE8 etc but what i do take umbrage with is it being called top table or near top table as it just isnt.

 

of course to those who love the sound by all means enjoy but lets not make it out to be something its not.

post #759 of 864

imo even grading technical efficiency becomes quite subjective...ex, i don't consider the RE0 to be that technically great because the quantity of bass and bass extension is subpar and the mids were pretty average for me. Not to mention it's weak dynamics and imaging, leaving only treble as excellent in this iem. But i guess this a quality that always seems to be regarded the most when grading technical proficiency bringing in more clarity and detail.

post #760 of 864

So I've done some listening to these other than just casual listening in a bookstore type environment. There are a couple of areas the DDM struggle at. Imaging and instrument separation are not that great here. The treble is way too polite. I'm also used to hearing some stuff there that I'm not hearing with these especially with songs I'm familiar with. I'm thinking I can adjust to the bass probably because of me using the Eterna a lot lately which is a bass monster in itself. Cymbals also are not very realistic here.

 

The bass and mids are good here but the bass is too much for me to use regularly. They tend to be a nice change for a while but then they get boring for me which is where the DDM is at for me right now. Midrange is very good and definitely where the strength of the DDM is. All kinds of strings sound good here. Stage is nice and wide but part of that may be because I'm not inserting it as deep as regular earphone since just the tip is in my ear while the rest of the housing not.

 

I'm not sure where these belong in a technical standpoint since I only have the RE-Zero to compare to now since the Eterna is not a very good judge for anything except how much bass something has.

post #761 of 864

I don't think any IEM will be perfect, but my thinking is as follows. My own measure of technical proficiency is not necessarily what the right mix of bass/treble/mids is in an earphone (this is too subjective for any person to right declare one particular balance right). Rather, I think of it in terms of, how well can a particular earphone reproduce the real life sound of particular instruments. The human ear and brain are peculiar instruments, and the ability to convince them that they are listening to a real instrument as opposed to earphones takes into account a lot of factors - speed, soundstaging, dynamics, resonance, etc - besides just the amount of treble or bass.

 

Now, I haven't heard any IEM reproduce all instruments in a life like fashion. I don't even know if its possible for any earphone to reproduce even *one* instrument in a completely realistic fashion, let alone extremely expensive audiophile speaker setups (which I don't have a great deal of experience with either.)

 

I just think the DDM comes closer to reproducing the sound and feel of real life instruments like pianos, guitars, cellos (and even xylophones oddly enough) and male vocals better than anything I've heard before. They sound more realistic, at least to me, than an amped RE0 on those instruments, though of course the RE0 trumps it in detail and things like female vocals.

 

Just from the standpoint of psychoacoustics, I don't think for instance something like the CK90Pro (or its more respected brother the CK10), which are considered top tier or near top tier, delivers anything like a realistic reproduction of most instruments because of their almost complete lack of decay. These earphones are technically more balanced - with a more flat response across the frequency range. But they do not convey to me the sound of real instruments, and the emotional weight they convey.

 

The human ear doesn't hear instruments by picking apart every single crisp detail from what it hears - and that might be a neat trick of some IEMs, just as the DDM's neat trick is to move a heap of air right into your ear. However, I do think that the DDM is sophisticated enough to convey startlingly real reproductions sometimes, especially of little intimate moments of a string being plucked, or a musician singing very closely into the microphone. It's not a bass monster - the sound has always struck me as almost as polite and diffused as the RE252.

 

The DDM has a lot of flaws, but I don't know. I feel that the DDM should be considered top tier in their sound, and I think that shizego and joker might agree with me here - though you would have to ask them directly, I'm only basing it on their respective reviews. I don't think it would be such a great insult to the other top tier IEMs, which each have their own ardent supporters and detractors. In the end though, I have to completely admit that I do not have another top tier earphone in my position to compare it to. While I'd like to think its top tier based on other members comparisons with it to their own top-tier collection, I can't say that first hand. Nor should it really matter if its top tier. Given the price, I think I got great bang for buck, and thats why I'm so keen on them. If I paid $400 dollars, I would be singing a different tune.

 

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a little insistent or rude, particularly to you Mark, who I respect a lot - you prompted my purchase of the RE252's and the V-Jays for instance, and I think you were right about the sound there. I guess it's because I know that you have an ear for sound that I would love it if you liked the DDM's more than you did - everyone likes to have their purchasing decisions and feelings validated hehe! XD

 

Anyway, enough waxing lyrical - on a more positive note, given that we are seeing actual reviews and production shots of the next DDM already, who thinks it will be released *before* December? *raises his hand* :D


Edited by a_recording - 9/5/10 at 7:01pm
post #762 of 864

Well I judge it as a $109 earphone since that's the price I was quoted for the earphone. That means comparing it against the RE-Zero is fair since it's the only earphone I have that's worth any real value to me. It does a lot of things well especially when you get to the midrange and bass area. I don't like the presentation of the treble as it's too polite. I'm going to spend a couple days not using the Eterna since those are bass heavy and judge from switching with the Zero and DDM. I've been spending too much time with a bass heavy earphone but from switching to the Zero and DDM the DDM do indeed sound more balanced but still a tad much. I'll try some EQ when I use them with my J3. Either way the DDM do much more right than it does wrong so these are a good value buy but hard to recommend for reasons other than sound.

 

Also were the first 2 parts speaking to me on in general? I thought you were until I read you were referring to Mark ;p

post #763 of 864


x2 I wholeheartily agree with this post and wish more users would use this approach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

I don't think any IEM will be perfect, but my thinking is as follows. My own measure of technical proficiency is not necessarily what the right mix of bass/treble/mids is in an earphone (this is too subjective for any person to right declare one particular balance right). Rather, I think of it in terms of, how well can a particular earphone reproduce the real life sound of particular instruments. The human ear and brain are peculiar instruments, and the ability to convince them that they are listening to a real instrument as opposed to earphones takes into account a lot of factors - speed, soundstaging, dynamics, resonance, etc - besides just the amount of treble or bass.

 

Now, I haven't heard any IEM reproduce all instruments in a life like fashion. I don't even know if its possible for any earphone to reproduce even *one* instrument in a completely realistic fashion, let alone extremely expensive audiophile speaker setups (which I don't have a great deal of experience with either.)

 

I just think the DDM comes closer to reproducing the sound and feel of real life instruments like pianos, guitars, cellos (and even xylophones oddly enough) and male vocals better than anything I've heard before. They sound more realistic, at least to me, than an amped RE0 on those instruments, though of course the RE0 trumps it in detail and things like female vocals.

 

Just from the standpoint of psychoacoustics, I don't think for instance something like the CK90Pro (or its more respected brother the CK10), which are considered top tier or near top tier, delivers anything like a realistic reproduction of most instruments because of their almost complete lack of decay. These earphones are technically more balanced - with a more flat response across the frequency range. But they do not convey to me the sound of real instruments, and the emotional weight they convey.

 

The human ear doesn't hear instruments by picking apart every single crisp detail from what it hears - and that might be a neat trick of some IEMs, just as the DDM's neat trick is to move a heap of air right into your ear. However, I do think that the DDM is sophisticated enough to convey startlingly real reproductions sometimes, especially of little intimate moments of a string being plucked, or a musician singing very closely into the microphone. It's not a bass monster - the sound has always struck me as almost as polite and diffused as the RE252.

 

The DDM has a lot of flaws, but I don't know. I feel that the DDM should be considered top tier in their sound, and I think that shizego and joker might agree with me here - though you would have to ask them directly, I'm only basing it on their respective reviews. I don't think it would be such a great insult to the other top tier IEMs, which each have their own ardent supporters and detractors. In the end though, I have to completely admit that I do not have another top tier earphone in my position to compare it to. While I'd like to think its top tier based on other members comparisons with it to their own top-tier collection, I can't say that first hand. Nor should it really matter if its top tier. Given the price, I think I got great bang for buck, and thats why I'm so keen on them. If I paid $400 dollars, I would be singing a different tune.

 

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a little insistent or rude, particularly to you Mark, who I respect a lot - you prompted my purchase of the RE252's and the V-Jays for instance, and I think you were right about the sound there. I guess it's because I know that you have an ear for sound that I would love it if you liked the DDM's more than you did - everyone likes to have their purchasing decisions and feelings validated hehe! XD

 

Anyway, enough waxing lyrical - on a more positive note, given that we are seeing actual reviews and production shots of the next DDM already, who thinks it will be released *before* December? *raises his hand* :D

post #764 of 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post

 

Also were the first 2 parts speaking to me on in general? I thought you were until I read you were referring to Mark ;p

 

Haha I guess it was more to Mark and his comment of taking umbrage to the DDM's being considered top tier, but I guess they are just general comments anyway. 

 

And my god, I just received my Etymotic MC5's. I had no idea that when they say "deep insertion", they mean it. I keep expecting to pull them out and see brain on the tip.
 

post #765 of 864

  Opinions are just that, nothing more nothing less. As for validation, the only person that can validate your purchase is yourself. If you like it enough to justify the money you spent for it, i don't see the reason to worry about what others think. Hobbies (and places) like this, can sometimes push us to some slightly obsessive behaviour patterns, that have the exact opposite effect from the intended, to relax and enjoy our gear.

 

  I mean it's perfectly understandable to base your decision on a purchase on the the opinions of others, especially when you are unable to try yourself what interests you beforehand. All this madness that follows though, about categorising, searching for flaws or benediction, and all of this based on the opinion of others is rather meaningless.

 

  Besides you will always find flaws if you search hard enough. A fellow for example was complaining that the SM3 isn't flat, and that it has recessed highs and from his point of view he was right. Does that mean that everyone else that enjoys his SM3 is wrong? I don't think so. In the end the only opinion that matters is your own.  

 

  Disclaimer : The above statements about behaviour, describe me as well from time to time .


Edited by SkiesOfAzel - 9/5/10 at 8:52pm
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