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Should I upgrade my turntable or my cartridge?

post #1 of 13
5/2/10 at 11:13pm
Thread Starter 
Well hello, Head-Fi! It has been a while since my last post, but I've been lurking. The hiatus has been cut short by a new job with a fatter wallet to burn (and in the music industry to boot).

But I digress. So I guess this isn't all that original of a question, what with everybody's system being a snowflake and all of our ears being our own and all the other caveats of any question involving audio reproduction; I'm asking anyways.

I've built a respectable mid-fi stereo rig since my audiophile baptism (CMoy, Super.fi's, rest is history) and I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. My latest fixation is vinyl and I feel like I'm missing something with my Technics SL-D2/Grado FC+ combo. So I'm trying to decide whether I should go for a new table or a new cartridge.

My budget is under $500, but I'm also looking for bang for buck. I like my deck; it's been reliable and I bought it in college for $30. At the same time, those Ferrari red minimalist affairs are damn sexy. My latest thought is that a new cartridge and a rewire of the RCA's would set my mind at ease until I pick up a P3-24 or something similar in a couple years.

But...

Can I justify buying a good matching cartridge for this tonearm if I'm upgrading the whole shebang in the not too distant future (and risk the new cartridge not playing nice)? Will a new deck be upgradeable and save me from buying the aforementioned $1k+ deck?

It boils down to...

Will spending $500 on a new deck be better than spending $250 on a good cartridge/upgrades if I plan on being able to spend twice that in a couple years on a more substantial turntable?

Other pertinent system info:
Hagermann Bugle Phono Pre-Amp
Adcom Pre
Rotel Power
Grado, Sennheiser HP's
Tekton/Fostex or MB Quart speakers
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post #2 of 13
5/3/10 at 2:52am
Your Technics is a decent deck but I wouldn't spend $250 on a new cartridge. Install an AT120E on it if you want a different flavor than your old Grado. Your Bugle is an exceptionally nice phono preamp by the way.
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post #3 of 13
5/3/10 at 5:19am
If your budget is $500, look for a used Planar 3 at Audiogon. I've seen quite a few go between $400 and $500. The P3-24 is a nice deck, but the older ones are excellent, too.
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post #4 of 13
5/4/10 at 2:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
If your budget is $500, look for a used Planar 3 at Audiogon. I've seen quite a few go between $400 and $500. The P3-24 is a nice deck, but the older ones are excellent, too.
sound advice

the tone arm on the p3, the rb301 is a very well regarded veteran in the tt community, and is supposedly a lot easier to mount than the arm on the p3 24, i read that in most cases that p3 24 arm is best installed or tweaked in store with machinery as it is harder to install or change than the rb 301
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post #5 of 13
5/4/10 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by techenvy View Post
sound advice

the tone arm on the p3, the rb301 is a very well regarded veteran in the tt community
hey there is something to say for regas after all! They have nice arms.
Id mount it to a technics, great arm on a great motor. WIN.
Quote:
and is supposedly a lot easier to mount than the arm on the p3 24, i read that in most cases that p3 24 arm is best installed or tweaked in store with machinery as it is harder to install or change than the rb 301
The RB300 is easy as pie to install. Considering the difficulties in setting VTA on the 301, and no easily adjustable VTA it may be the better pick. OTOH, if you drink the roy gandy cool-aid, bolting the stick hard to the plinth is worth more than VTA. I tend to agree that a rigid mount is better than a wiggly one, but own cartridges of all manner of heights.
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post #6 of 13
5/4/10 at 10:55pm
Thread Starter 
Alrighty, so we're drifting towards new deck...

I feel like I've read some bad reviews of the P3. Is there any fact to it, or am I just remembering things incorrectly?
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post #7 of 13
5/4/10 at 11:17pm
In my experience, upgrade table and arm first then cartridge. I've preferred a $10k deck with a $300 cartridge to a $3000 deck with another thousand or so in mods and a $3700 cart in my system.
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post #8 of 13
5/4/10 at 11:36pm

Right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
If your budget is $500, look for a used Planar 3 at Audiogon. I've seen quite a few go between $400 and $500. The P3-24 is a nice deck, but the older ones are excellent, too.
This T.Table is probably the best table arm combo under 8 bills..Another way to go would be "Project Tables for alot less...I hooked my 14 yr old son (loves vinyl) up with their entry level table and installed a shure 97e cart. and it rocks!!!! All totalled about 400.00...I'd get a new table like the rega p3 or well cared for older rega 3 (as long as it has the rb 300arm) on it....Some real early rega tables had a crap arms......Look on audiogon like Uncle Erik said..A nice rega will last you and several cart. upgrades......for yrs.IMO.
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post #9 of 13
5/5/10 at 12:23am
I disagree with the "upgrade the TT before the cart camp", but it keeps stereophile full of adds from TT builders with too much money so who is to argue.

Although there are differences in the way TT's sound they are no where near as pronounced as the way cartridges sound.

A nice needle drop was made of 2 very dis similar TT's with the same cart. The results were surprising. Not really surprising, the TT is less significant than the cartridge although there are sonic differences between various turntables.
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post #10 of 13
5/5/10 at 9:56pm

nikongod  

   id love to see that tonearm on a technic tt. sadly and foolishly, the only thing holding me back from a technic is the lack of key lock. 

   i am surprised the p 3  got some hate, from what ive read, they are better than project or mh.

that would also be nice on some vintage tables i want.

    


Edited by techenvy - 9/27/10 at 10:30pm
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post #11 of 13
5/6/10 at 11:58am

What do you mean "key lock"?

 

Do you mean disabling the slider? thats easy as pie. The 1200mk 3 & 5 both have "zero" buttons which bring the TT back to the target speed instantly. The Mk2 has the dent in the middle of the slider that is actually a switch and also zeros the slider.

 

People have also DIY'd the switch on a mk3 onto a MK2. It seems a little more popular for DJ's where going back and forth between 2 speeds instantly is more important. for hi-fi use, just ignore the slider and leave it in the dent.

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post #12 of 13
5/6/10 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikongod View Post

I disagree with the "upgrade the TT before the cart camp", but it keeps stereophile full of adds from TT builders with too much money so who is to argue.

 

This is kind of a silly statement to make when there are cartridges out there costing $18,000+   At least materials costs of the table is more obvious.
 

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post #13 of 13
5/6/10 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gopher View Post


This is kind of a silly statement to make when there are cartridges out there costing $18,000+   At least materials costs of the table is more obvious.


Of course there are outstandingly expensive cartridges available. How is my statement silly because of that? Look who has the adds, and look who gets the press. Lets ignore my cheap shot at the crown jewel of stereo magazines, perhaps that was somewhat silly.

 

What about the comment on TT's sounding more alike than cartridges? How confident are you that there are no ulterior motives in anything that says this should not be so? If you can find FR measurements for cartridges you can easily see differences larger than 1db in their FR response curves, as well as differences in their square wave response. Its not hard to find a TT with rumble below the noise floor of the record.

 

I would go so far as to say that the differences between 2 obviously different cartridges are larger than the difference between 2 obviously different turntables. In other words, you can probably hear the difference between 2 different cartridges where at most you will have a rough time telling the difference between 2 turntables.

 

It is not prohibitively expensive to compare a Grado Red to a Denon 103, they are roughly the same price and both have their following in inexpensive carts. If you think they sound the same you need to have your hearing aid fixed. Record the output of the phono-stage and play it back. Have a friend shuffle them.

 

Try a similar test with the same cart on a Rega P3 and a Technics 1200. Remember this is science, so just swap the cartridge. Record them and play them back. Have a friend shuffle them a bit.


Edited by nikongod - 5/7/10 at 1:09am
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