beyerdynamic T1 vs he-5le - Page 2

Yes, I meant the EF-5 of course. I am not too keen on the naming scheme of these two as I never seem to get it straight.

I had previously inquired in the HE-5LE thread about the EF-5 being the best amp for the HE-5LEs and the response I received was that they did indeed sound better with better amps. Also, I think the general consensus is that the T1s are much easier to drive adequately than Beyer's other older 600ohm headphone models. I am sure there are ways to look at the specs and determine if the EF-5 is up to the task, but I suspect it is. So, all I was trying to suggest was that neither headphones were heard at their best nor was one necessarily hamstrung by the amp being used.

Sorry if my post came of negatively, not my intention at all. Just pointing out that I thought the playing field was fairly even. No doubt it is up for debate at least.

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/482372/t1-vs-he-5-opinions-please

Here is my short interview with HE5's designer. Hope this helps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gu Sensei 

Yes, I meant the EF-5 of course. I am not too keen on the naming scheme of these two as I never seem to get it straight.

 

I had previously inquired in the HE-5LE thread about the EF-5 being the best amp for the HE-5LEs and the response I received was that they did indeed sound better with better amps. Also, I think the general consensus is that the T1s are much easier to drive adequately than Beyer's other older 600ohm headphone models. I am sure there are ways to look at the specs and determine if the EF-5 is up to the task, but I suspect it is. So, all I was trying to suggest was that neither headphones were heard at their best nor was one necessarily hamstrung by the amp being used.

 

Sorry if my post came of negatively, not my intention at all. Just pointing out that I thought the playing field was fairly even. No doubt it is up for debate at least.

No I didn't perceive it as being negative. I guess my understanding is that headphones with low impedance have slightly different amping needs to a headphone with a high impedance.  1 needs more current and the other, more voltage. I think that is why those with 600 ohm headphones like to pair them with tube amps for the best sound.  Based on that understanding I maintain that a headphone amp built and designed to drive a very low impedance orthodynamic which has a huge need for current is not necessarily a good match for the 600 ohm T1.  Im not saying it's a bad match, I'm just saying that it very well might not be at the same standard as it is at amping the HE-5.
 

Correction: I did not mean to imply that the Beyerdynamic T1 sound was thin. In fact I found their sound somewhat lush in the same way that my Shure 530s sound. I really liked the T1's alot. In fact, my decision to keep the HE 5LEs and return the T1's was not an easy one.

My choice of "thin" terminology was strictly the sound of the T1's in comparison to the HE-5LE.

With the T1's, I almost always knew I was listening to headphones. With the HE-5's there were far more times where I could almost imagine the instruments and vocalist were really in the room with me. Perhaps the terms: "detail", "soundstage"  and "more natural mid, lower mid-range and upper bass " should have been substituted for the term "thin" in this strictly relative comparison between the two phones using the same amp while controlling for volume, etc.

As far as the choice of amps are concerned, as was also noted in the May 2010 Six Moons Audio  HE-LE review, the EF-5 amp seems to be the optimal amp to bring out the best in the HE-5 LE. I bought the EF-5 based on reading in April that it drove the earlier HE 5 model (non-LE))  better than a long list of other high end amps.

While I have no doubt that the T's will sound different on different amps, my focus was to chose between two headphones while holding the amp factor constant. Personaly I would be interested to see if the relative differences between the two headphones characterisics change that much using another amp, but welcome observations from someone who has actually done controlled listening comparisons.

By the way I actually have I slight bias to favor slightly more forward sounding gear (such as the the highs of the Senn 595's or the Focal/Labs speaker tweeters) so you can imagine my reluctance to give up the slightly more forward/ treble of the T1's. But the more realistic, more palbable HE-5 LE experience, in the end, was the deciding factor .

Quote:

Originally Posted by angle_sh00ter 

 

Well the HE-5 is a headphone.

And the EF-5 is a amp designed to pair perfectly with the HE-5, so i don't know how you can say that it is just as well suited to a 600 ohm beyer.  I am not saying it is not up to the task but I am merely raising the possibility that it is more suited to the HE-5 than the T1 which to me is a reasonable possibility to consider.

Agreed, and the OP described them (T1s) as "thin", now I can understand this from the HD800s, but the T1s when properly amped are far from thin...in fact slightly lush with a small bloom maybe, but never thin. That led me to think that the conditions for his audition were far from ideal.

Skylab has the HE-5LE and the T1 (LCD-2 too), maybe he can chime in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaturalMusic 

Correction: I did not mean to imply that the Beyerdynamic T1 sound was thin. In fact I found their sound somewhat lush in the same way that my Shure 530s sound. I really liked the T1's alot. In fact, my decision to keep the HE 5LEs and return the T1's was not an easy one.

My choice of "thin" terminology was strictly the sound of the T1's in comparison to the HE-5LE.

 

With the T1's, I almost always knew I was listening to headphones. With the HE-5's there were far more times where I could almost imagine the instruments and vocalist were really in the room with me. Perhaps the terms: "detail", "soundstage"  and "more natural mid, lower mid-range and upper bass " should have been substituted for the term "thin" in this strictly relative comparison between the two phones using the same amp while controlling for volume, etc.

 

As far as the choice of amps are concerned, as was also noted in the May 2010 Six Moons Audio  HE-LE review, the EF-5 amp seems to be the optimal amp to bring out the best in the HE-5 LE. I bought the EF-5 based on reading in April that it drove the earlier HE 5 model (non-LE))  better than a long list of other high end amps.

 

While I have no doubt that the T's will sound different on different amps, my focus was to chose between two headphones while holding the amp factor constant. Personaly I would be interested to see if the relative differences between the two headphones characterisics change that much using another amp, but welcome observations from someone who has actually done controlled listening comparisons.

 

By the way I actually have I slight bias to favor slightly more forward sounding gear (such as the the highs of the Senn 595's or the Focal/Labs speaker tweeters) so you can imagine my reluctance to give up the slightly more forward/ treble of the T1's. But the more realistic, more palbable HE-5 LE experience, in the end, was the deciding factor .

Interesting impressions.  They are kind of the opposite of what I was expecting, but interesting that the HE5LE is warmer than the T1 since the HE5 is often described as harsh, and the T1 is described as neutral, but slightly lush/warm

But it's not entirely fair to the T1 to compare to the HE5LE on a budget amp that was designed for perfect synergy with the HE5LE.  (as others have said)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaturalMusic 

I just spent significant time A/B testing Byerdynamic Tesla T1's and HE-5 LE (with the HE-5 LE's cloth screens removed to remove any perceived "veil")

Both headphones were burned in over 100 hours..

 

My equipment was a Hifiman EF-5 hybrid solid state/tube amplifier burned in for 60 hours.

 

The sound sources were:

 

CD's were on played on a Meridian 588  24 bit CD player and

 

Apple lossless files on a Windows laptop using an Ayre acoustics QB9 DAC.

 

My music source were remastered Beatles, Cat Stevens, Eagles, Kenny Loggins and a superbly recorded highly dynamic CD "Le Tempe passe", by Michel Jonasz (This popular CD now used at Tri-State area Audiophile stores for demonstating the full range of high end music systems)

I am highly familar with specific sections of these music sources to make comparisons. 

 

I am not an engineer, but I have been an audiphile for over twenty five years and found very consistent differences during my hours of testing of these two headphones.

 

The HE 5 LE had overall more realistic, palpable sound wiith more detail and slightly more weight toward the lower mid range.

 

The HE-5 LE soundstage was wider and more dimensional. It eliminated the analytic detail concerns I previously had with the Sennheiser 800's..

 

The Beyerdynamic T1 had a slightly brighter, thinner sound than the HE5 LEs .Cymbals and were slightly more pronounced and had more realistic shimmer to them. High end vocals were also slightly more pronounced than the HE 5LEs. 

 

The T1 soundstage was more compact than the HE-5LE's.

 

Both had excellent bass. The T1's bass had slightly faster snap, while the HE 5LE bass was more enveloping.

 

Both were comfortable on my medium to small sized head.

 

The ideal phone would marry the strengths of each phone.

 

In the end, I kept the HE-5LE's because of their overall more realistic, more tangible, more detailed sound but still wished they just a tad bit more of the slightly high end of the T1.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you.  I recently wrote a review about T1 in Headfonia, and I bought HE5 LE for my personal use.

T1 is wonderful headphone, very fast, precise, and rich sounding headphone from low bass to top octave.  But I do wish that it has more bass quantity.  The bass quality is excellent, I just want about 3-4 dB more quantity of the bass.

HE5 LE, overall tonal balance, is not as accurate and precise as T1.  HE5 LE mids is thick, a bit too thick for me, but very seductive, emotionally involving, especially for vocal.

While T1 is pretty friendly with amplifier, HE5 LE need a matching amplifier to make it sounds right.  So please put a matching amplifier into consideration when getting HE5 LE.

I found a bit of annoying midrange reverberation with HE5 LE which become quite prominent with some recording (for example some part of Rebeca Pidgeon's Spanish Harlem).  It is not just a mere midrange hump, but more like midrange reverberation at around 250-750 Hz.  It can be reduced using equalizer, by suppressing the 250-750 Hz region around 3 dB, but not cured, only reduced. Opening the grill didn't help either.  Will try some dampening material, hope to find a way to eliminate the mid reverberation.

My deciding factor when buying HE5 LE is the palpable sound presentation, not the tonal balance.  It feels like I can feel the singer breathing in front of me, I can feel the space and atmosphere, like being in the same room with the singer.  The HE5 LE sound presentation is somehow more realistic than T1, while T1 tonal balance to ears is more accurate than HE5 LE.

Why not try an entry level STAX system?