few quick questions about mp3

This is probably more than you'd ever want to know about LAME's various command line switches.

Short answer, -V 0 is LAME's highest quality vbr mode, but there's a section near the bottom of that link that states that it's possible for -V 0 to sound worse than, say, 256kbps cbr. I expect that this happens rarely, and might be mitigated somewhat by specifying a minimum bit rate using the -b switch.

well i have read that it takes more battery to read higher-bitrate files vs lower-bitrate ones (smaller files = more battery). and i have also read that ogg vorbis "performs better" than mp3 at a given bitrate. so, for example, if you can have a 160kbps ogg vorbis with the quality of, oh i dunno, maybe a 190kbps mp3? (i don't know the actual numbers), then you would be save battery at least on the file size side?

as far as where exactly the line is drawn between the innate need of ogg vorbis for more power vs. the bigger mp3 files of the same quality, i don't know. my instinct tells me that the smaller files have more impact than the "easier-to-decompress" file format. don't take my word for it though. perhaps someone with more computing knowledge can chime in.

that said, i use ogg vorbis on my clip+ @ 160kbps, the sound is acceptable, and the battery life is as well. just my 3 cents.

ok i actually just googled it, and it seems that i am wrong. the general consensus from the other forums is that unless you drop bitrates by quite a bit (enough that you'll notice sound quality differences), ogg takes up more battery life across the board.

LAME seems to be the format of choice for max battery life.

meh, i'll stick to ogg since i need more a compromise of (medium) quality and quantity.

Hi plonter, today was pretty busy but during a couple of the breaks I pieced together a reply, fwiw here you go...

Mp3 is about compromise...if you're doing it right than what mp3 does is to take a lossless source, & remove information from that source while making it (ideally) sound identical to the original. By comparison, listening to Flac is uncompromised, you are listening to the lossless source. Mp3 (or ogg or other methods of lossy audio encoding like apple's aac) is about finding a compromise between filesize and listening transparency. The main goal with any audio encoding is to find an acceptable filesize that is as transparent to you as possible.

The 3 most common lame mp3 settings are:

320 cbr (320kbps) is mp3 "maxed out"... practically speaking, there is no setting higher than this. In using this constant bit rate setting you are essentially asking the mp3 encoding engine to give you the highest possible quality, regardless of the complexity levels within any given song. So a minute's worth of background crowd murmur during a live set uses as much space as a minute's worth of the most complex musical passage during the middle of the song. As expected, this method uses the most space.

V0 vbr (averages ~245kbps) is the highest setting you can use with a variable bit rate. In essence, you are giving more trust to the encoder than 320cbr. You are telling it that you want all the complex musical passages to sound just as good as with 320cbr -- it will encode at 320 when necessary and often does -- but you also are telling it to use lower bitrates on a frame by frame basis when music gets less complex. The bitrate varies & is called vbr or variable bit rate.

V2 vbr (averages ~190kbps): Think of this setting as "v0 lite." Same idea as v0, but the overall quality target is lower. This is one of the most common lame settings and it's been tested that most people can't distinguish between music encoded at this setting and the original.

Granted this is Cliffs Notes version and it would be very easy to use many more paragraphs to summarize mp3 than than this....if you want to learn more, than I think the two best places to start are here LAME - Hydrogenaudio Knowledgebaseand here Hydrogenaudio Forums -> MP3.

As to your questions, here a brief FAQ:

Q: So what is the best encoder setting then?

The short answer** is since mp3 is all about compromise between filesize and transparency, I believe lame V0 mp3 is the best setting. It's the best balance of efficiency & transparency this is encoded with most highly-developed and universal format available.

Q: Why not 320cbr?

320 is overkill, imho. If you are going to wind up listening to a file that big, why not just listen to the original flac? Only a very small percentage of people who have tried can ABX (essentially, tell the difference between, ABX test - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) 320 and V0, so all in all it's better to use V0 which is more space efficient. V0's efficiency also translates to encoding time -- if you have a CD collection that would take you 12 hours to encode to 320, it would take only about 6 hours to encode to V0. So, less hard drive space, less time to encode, and yes, greater battery life with the overall lower bitrate.

Q: Why not V2? (used to be called alt.preset.standard...you don't bring this up specifically, but I'm including it because it's a popular choice worth mentioning)

V2 is a very good choice, but it's definitely a couple of notches below V0, so again it's a question of compromise. In a time where terrabye hard drives are as commonplace as 16gb memory cards and storage becomes cheaper and greater with each passing year, settling for 'V0 lite' (V2) just seems to make less and less sense. And even if it's a good idea today, do you think you'll ever upgrade? Maybe V2 might sound ok with today's headphones, but what about tomorrow's?

Q: Ok, if V0 is the best setting then what's the best way to encode it?

There are people who swear by foobar to encode. I don't, so your best bet would be to google 'foobar lame' or browse through the foobar section at the hydrogen audio link above.

I've used a few of the many frontends for lame out there, but since I've discovered dbpoweramp, I've never looked back dBpoweramp Music Converter It's the most user-friendly, most powerful, fastest, most-trusted full-featured converter/ripper I've seen, is regularly updated, has a 21 day full-featured trial, and I think is well worth the $36 bucks to keep it beyond 3 weeks.

If you are just getting started, or don't see yourself needed more than a few features, then EAC is an excellent ripper and is very easy to setup for lame conversion and is free. Introduction » Exact Audio Copy


**Longer answer (to what is the best mp3 encoder/setting): It's not really a longer answer, but it is a longer process...what you do is take the time to decide for yourself. Get together a representative sampling of CD/FLAC tracks you listen to. Ideally they are ones that you may have noticed flaws in when not encoded well, but what you are looking for a good cross-section of genres. Encode to different settings and compare them with each other and to flac using this: foobar2000: Components Repository - ABX Comparator

Remember anything other than lossless is compromise. Decide for yourself which mp3 (or ogg, acc, ect) settings are the best compromise in terms of space and transparency for you. While it's true that I think lame V0 would make a safe bet and be an excellent choice for just about anybody who was about to do a lot of encoding, your ears might end up being thoroughly convinced that V5 (~130 kbps) sounds really great to you, so you won't know for sure until you listen.

I would say:
* LAME - the encoder
* CBR 320 - constant bitrate at 320kbps

It's really worth taking the time to run through some abx tests if you haven't yet. I can't tell the difference between V0 and 320. Frankly, most of the time I couldn't tell V2 from the original, but I use V0 to allow for a greater margin of error.

Mp3 is all about size/transparency compromise. I have a collection of V0 mp3s and flacs. When doing background or non-critical listening which I do the overwhelming majority of the time, I love my V0s. When taking the time to chill and maybe listen a little more critically, I try to treat myself to flac. Between my cards and my player I have 30gb of space to play with.

I think V0 is better than 320 for a lot of reasons, an important one being that if I'd chosen 320 over V0 I'd have less space for my flacs. I enjoy listening to lossless when I want to. Not because there is that much if hardly any perceptual difference to me, but "just because."

Plonter, see my post here. The post shows why Ogg Vorbis @ -q6 is better than VBR -V0 mp3. VBR -v0 mp3 is exactly the same as 320 kbps CBR mp3 using the same encoder.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6598535-post23.html

Have you done any tests that say battery life is better with ogg on a portable player like a clip? It isn't as good as mp3. Plonter said he tried ogg in his first post, but was looking for better battery life.

Since Ogg Vorbis offers better quality at a lower bitrate, it will theoretically offer more battery life as although Ogg Vorbis is a more complex codec using a more complex algorithm, the extra CPU cycles used to process the more complex algorithm is far outweighed by the extra bitrate needed for mp3. If he wants extra battery life, he should read the sticky here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f15/ho...tteries-63563/

Ogg file sizes may be smaller but if he -- or anybody -- wants extra battery life on their clip, they should avoid ogg at all costs.

Why would I care if I were able to fit a few more files on my device if I had a lot less time to listen to them?

Choosing Mp3/lossy is all about compromise and balance. Lame V0 mp3 is the best to use because it's best balance of efficiency & transparency, using the most the battery power efficient, highly-developed and universal format available.

Battery Test vs Bitrate Results - Sansa Clip - Welcome to SanDisk's Sansa Community

Trust your ears. I find 320 ABR a happy compromise. v0 is too low, I can hear the loss of quality on the rigs I use. 320 CBR is too high, I hear artifacts in old, low-bitrate analog recordings.