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Where does quality change to snake oil? - Page 2

post #16 of 39
4/28/10 at 9:37pm
If you can hear a difference between two cables there is no snake oil.

But it depends upon on how you approach it as well. If you expect one cable to sound better, it will. But if expect them to sound the same, and then hear a difference, it holds a touch more truth.
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post #17 of 39
4/28/10 at 10:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingStyles View Post
Lets keep it simple. If you can hear it in your system, they arent snake oil. If you cant hear it in your system, then they are snake oil for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobaltmute View Post
If you can hear a difference between two cables there is no snake oil.
Remember that snake oil was (and is) marketed as a panacea, and is generally believed to work by placebo effect.
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post #18 of 39
4/28/10 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rds View Post
Remember that snake oil was (and is) marketed as a panacea, and is generally believed to work by placebo effect.
Correct, that is why I added my second part of my post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobaltmute View Post
But it depends upon on how you approach it as well. If you expect one cable to sound better, it will. But if expect them to sound the same, and then hear a difference, it holds a touch more truth.
There is also a point to be made that if people don't hear a difference that they convince themselves there is one to justify what they have changed.
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post #19 of 39
4/28/10 at 10:27pm
Audiophile cables are just jewelry for your system. I don't think there are any differences in sound between a well-constructed $10 cable and a $1,000 wonder cable.
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post #20 of 39
4/28/10 at 10:59pm
I agree with HD-5000. Keep your cables short, you connections tight and make or buy at a normal quality. No need to be a sucker for Madison Ave...
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post #21 of 39
4/29/10 at 12:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-5000 View Post
Audiophile cables are just jewelry for your system. I don't think there are any differences in sound between a well-constructed $10 cable and a $1,000 wonder cable.
There is the fallacy - there ARE NO $10 "well constructed" cables. Good connectors (machined brass, plated with silver/gold/nickel for conductance, not 'bling') simply cost more than that. Not talking about $100 Furutech, nor anything 'cryo'. Then, "good" wire costs something, and likely more than $10 itself shipped. Add sleving and heatshrink (protection) and lining (microphonics and shielding), then you start to realize what really goes into a 'well constructed' cable.

I simply couldn't even make a good cable myself, so I admire those who can. I HAVE tried many a time, and after gathering $50 in supplies, ended in a rather spectacular failure.

Maybe we need a poll among DIY - what did it REALLY cost you for YOUR 'well constructed' cables? WITH pics.

To which we will, no doubt, hear that the best cables are made out of CAT6... <sigh>.
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post #22 of 39
4/29/10 at 1:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabbi1 View Post
To which we will, no doubt, hear that the best cables are made out of CAT6... <sigh>.
That is what I have for interconnects.
Implemented correctly it will have all the caracteristics you desire; low resistance, inductance and capacitance.

Whether it is the 'best' or not I don't know, but it sure works just as well as my VdH.
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post #23 of 39
4/29/10 at 3:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabbi1 View Post
I simply couldn't even make a good cable myself, so I admire those who can. I HAVE tried many a time, and after gathering $50 in supplies, ended in a rather spectacular failure.

Maybe we need a poll among DIY - what did it REALLY cost you for YOUR 'well constructed' cables? WITH pics.
I disagree, what’s hard about making a DIY cable? You buy the correct gauge of cable/wire for you necessary application and connect it to your connector by the manufacturers recommendations, use sleeving and heatshrink to finish. I also think a photo is no proof of quality...
I’m in the process of making some umbilicals for some up and coming builds, I got some cheap 18AWG Belden silver coated copper from Ebay. I’m going to shield with Al-foil and use car hosing to finish...
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post #24 of 39
4/29/10 at 5:43am
Code Toad posted:-

can hear stuff like foot movements and page turns in piano music. I can hear stuff I've never heard before in music I've listened to for the last 30 years. I can definitely hear bad recordings.

Why do I need to spend 2 or 3 hundred dollars on cables? .

Why, so you can hear the foot movements and page turns and all the other sundry dreck that shouldn't be on the program material in glorious high fidelity.
When the violinist coughs or the cellist breaks wind you involuntarily turn your head to see who done it. It's only then you realise it was recorded, and not someone in the same room.
Vival High Fidelity - reality is a cheap imitation of you.
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post #25 of 39
4/29/10 at 10:00am
If you're building your own cables, you've avoided the snake oil to begin with IMO.
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post #26 of 39
4/29/10 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pabbi1 View Post
There is the fallacy - there ARE NO $10 "well constructed" cables. Good connectors (machined brass, plated with silver/gold/nickel for conductance, not 'bling') simply cost more than that. Not talking about $100 Furutech, nor anything 'cryo'. Then, "good" wire costs something, and likely more than $10 itself shipped. Add sleving and heatshrink (protection) and lining (microphonics and shielding), then you start to realize what really goes into a 'well constructed' cable.

I simply couldn't even make a good cable myself, so I admire those who can. I HAVE tried many a time, and after gathering $50 in supplies, ended in a rather spectacular failure.

Maybe we need a poll among DIY - what did it REALLY cost you for YOUR 'well constructed' cables? WITH pics.

To which we will, no doubt, hear that the best cables are made out of CAT6... <sigh>.


how much you think this little lod cost to build :P straded 4n silver
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post #27 of 39
4/29/10 at 11:27am
The transition from quality to snake oil is a grey/gray area that is open to the marketeers and in some cases the lawyers.
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post #28 of 39
4/29/10 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwmclean View Post
I disagree, what’s hard about making a DIY cable? You buy the correct gauge of cable/wire for you necessary application and connect it to your connector by the manufacturers recommendations, use sleeving and heatshrink to finish. I also think a photo is no proof of quality...
Didn't say it was hard, said I couldn't do it... or have been unsuccessful to date. Maybe my idea of 'good' is just aberrant. The real point is that it costs more than most people think.
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post #29 of 39
4/29/10 at 12:46pm
Is there a difference? Sure. Is there a lot of difference for the money,
and is it a POSITIVE difference?
Do your homework. I woulldn't buy the big $$ cables, but there are some
good cables out there at reasonable prices. I shop used. Or discount/closeout. Yes, the markup on all things retail is huge.
How much $$ do you think it takes to build a Senn hd650?
Welcome to the real world.
Kimber Heroes can be had at pretty good prices for I/C's and sound good
with everything I've matched them with. Monster just about stopped my venture into cables dead. Yuk.
I roll different cables I've got laying around with different amps, preamps, and speakers sometimes just as a sanity check.
Cables aren't magic. Crap will still sound like crap with an expensive cable.
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post #30 of 39
4/29/10 at 1:02pm
building under $10 is hard under $40 very easy
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