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Review: Clash of the Titans (3D) - JH16 Pro vs. JH13 Pro - Page 9

post #121 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by warp08 View Post

"Just to make sure I'm getting you, do you mean iPod Touch directly or IPod Touch fed into an amp like the Protector or RX? My portable rig is an iTouch into a Protector. I don't feel like I lose bass response compared to my home Apogee DAC (though I lose detail, etc.). When I go straight into the iTouch then it's a huge difference. But, that's a matter of the iTouch's weak headphone amp section not DAC section. I'm wondering about upgrading to a JH16 myself, and would like to corroborate what I'm hearing. Thanks."

 

An iPod Touch or even my iPad, for that matter is not a quality source DAP for a JH13 or JH16, when direct connected to the headphone out.  I have tested my iPad a bit last Saturday.  It wasn't terrible, but the soundstage was much narrower and there was a definite upper bass hump (usually referred to as the "iPod Sound)."  If you drop in a HQ LOD and amp, it improves considerably, but you still go thru a miniaturized, relatively low-grade DAC chip built into these devices. Until the GR9 transport or similar device materializes, that's the best option if you don't want to go to the HFM or iMod route.

 

The iPad USB-out is useful (with the optional Connection Kit), since you can hook up a USB DAC/Amp and bypass all that crap.  I'm hoping that OS 4.0 in the next gen iPod Touch may allow this sort of connectivity, which would be awesome, if they were to up the storage to 128GB.  I would consider that to replace the iMod, if that was possible.  We'll have to see.

 

Just my 2 cents.


Agreed.  I also want to interject that the iPad > camera connection kit > Pico DAC > Protector balanced > JH13 is just as good as using the Macbook as source with the same lossless files.  They really need to add this feature to the Iphone and touch or other iPods.

post #122 of 184


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warp08 View Post



I'm not sure if I can offer any additional details that would be useful for you.  By headstage or headroom, I mean that the JH16s operate at a much higher efficiency and lower distortion levels when being pushed by Hi-Def Test Tracks such as HDTracks or Chesky reference recordings, due to their triple-bore quad-bass driver stack architecture.  I don't want to create a misrepresentation that the JH16s are limited to excellent bass representation only, since they can easily match the JH13 capabilities in the other parts of the spectrum.  I keep emphasizing it, because bass representation to me is simply THE most challenging for an IEM design without sounding thumping or suppressing other frequencies.  To me, aside from high-end audiophile full-size cans featuring massive driver(s), no earphone comes close to offering anything close to a properly tuned and fitted JH16 Pro.  Period.  I'm sure at some point Jerry or somebody else will figure out a way to supersede it, but in the here and now, this is it.  And I'm not offended at all if somebody disagrees with my opinions, that's what this forum is all about. 

 

 


 

The JH13 Pro with a nice EQ boosting the 40-50hz by about 2db's is basically a JH16 Pro unless you're in a Live setting where bass headroom comes into play. On a normal recording the JH16 Pro's bass headroom increase isn't evident over the JH13's. But, I tried that EQ bass boost on my JH13's just a while ago and though it did make the bass more present and physical, it ruined the overall balance for me. The bass player or anything bass related sounded too close to me and not in the background like it would in real life.
 


Edited by Sonic 748i - 5/6/10 at 4:07pm
post #123 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic 748i View Post


 

The JH13 Pro with a nice EQ boosting the 40-50hz by about 2db's is basically a JH16 Pro unless you're in a Live setting where bass headroom comes into play. On a normal recording the JH16 Pro's bass headroom increase isn't evident over the JH13's. But, I tried that EQ bass boost on my JH13's just a while ago and though it did make the bass more present and physical, it ruined the overall balance for me. The bass player or anything bass related sounded too close to me and not in the background like it would in real life.
 


You never heard the jh16 to make such assumptions, seriously let it go..

post #124 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic 748i View Post


 

Infinite loop.
 


Seriously dude, just buy a pair of JH16 or let it go. Your JH13 don't sound worse than before just because JH Audio released a more recent model.

post #125 of 184

x2

post #126 of 184


Hopefully it gonna happen :)
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict View Post




Agreed.  I also want to interject that the iPad > camera connection kit > Pico DAC > Protector balanced > JH13 is just as good as using the Macbook as source with the same lossless files.  They really need to add this feature to the Iphone and touch or other iPods.

post #127 of 184

Quote:

Originally Posted by gp_hebert View Post




Seriously dude, just buy a pair of JH16 or let it go. Your JH13 don't sound worse than before just because JH Audio released a more recent model.




 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogieWoogie View Post




You never heard the jh16 to make such assumptions, seriously let it go..

I'm going by what Jerry Harvey the creator of these IEM's have to say. Not the opinion of the users who can easily fall prey of placebo. The JH16's are more bass heavy than the JH13's but will show increased headroom capacity in a live situation where the mix is not as controlled. The dynamic range and transient peaks are much more dramatic live. For example, in a live setting, an artist may want to hear a full mix plus a kick drum with a large 50hz boost (more than you would ever hear on a recording) and at a much louder volume than most people would listen. The earpiece needs to have more headroom and capacity so as not to distort at that volume level. In a normal recording it will just come across as more bass heavy.


Edited by Sonic 748i - 5/7/10 at 12:40am
post #128 of 184

Interesting stuff, warp08!

 

My impressions differ. I tend to prefer the JH16 on only a few occasions (e.g. Daft Punk's Alive 2007, deadmau5, Trentemoller) and the JH13 on only a few as well (Thrice, Porcupine Tree, Blue Sky Black Death). I would be VERY hard pressed to choose between the two considering how even-handed the pair are -- I never found myself preferring one or the other by the margins you describe. Nonetheless, if I were to make the decision just once it would be the JH16s only because of the very small price difference, not for the sound (once you're spending $1000+, $50 is a drop in the bucket). While they are very obviously different in terms of signature I feel that their difference lies in subtleties, and owners of one or the other need not worry about how the sister model sounds.

 

So for those of you with 13s contemplating the 16s -- don't bother. They are far more similar than they are different.

 

It seems you've beaten me to the punch in getting some good comparisons of these two monsters out. Bravo!

 

EDIT: I'd like to add that I'm using the Nova and stock cables for these impressions. I don't own a portable source (exact opposite from you ) anymore so I have no idea if the differences are more substantial with less power.


Edited by 3X0 - 5/7/10 at 7:45pm
post #129 of 184


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post

Interesting stuff, warp08!

 

My impressions differ. I tend to prefer the JH16 on only a few occasions (e.g. Daft Punk's Alive 2007, deadmau5, Trentemoller) and the JH13 on only a few as well (Thrice, Porcupine Tree, Blue Sky Black Death). I would be VERY hard pressed to choose between the two considering how even-handed the pair are -- I never found myself preferring one or the other by the margins you describe. Nonetheless, if I were to make the decision just once it would be the JH16s only because of the very small price difference, not for the sound (once you're spending $1000+, $50 is a drop in the bucket). While they are very obviously different in terms of signature I feel that their difference lies in subtleties, and owners of one or the other need not worry about how the sister model sounds.

 

So for those of you with 13s contemplating the 16s -- don't bother. They are far more similar than they are different.

 

It seems you've beaten me to the punch in getting some good comparisons of these two monsters out. Bravo!

 

EDIT: I'd like to add that I'm using the Nova and stock cables for these impressions. I don't own a portable source (exact opposite from you ) anymore so I have no idea if the differences are more substantial with less power.


3XO, did you notice this?


In Warp's comparison there is a HUGE contradiction here which makes me not respect this whole review anymore.


In one of the many comparisons he said:

 

JH13: Good bass tonality and transparency. Bass is not overpowering, just present. Piano solo nicely rendered in midrange. Percussion lives in the background, sometimes seems missing. This is a robustly rendered recording, but forward sounding. Sounds like the whole track lives between lower and upper midrange spectrum. What happened to cymbals?

JH16: Awesome dynamic in opening sequence. Lushness all over, cymbals are back. Lenny’s singing no longer carries the entire tracking. Piano and bass harmonics allow picturing of an expansive local, missing from the previous representation. I think the extended headroom is paying off here big time! Interestingly, Lenny sounds like a carbon copy from the previous JH13 session. Overall, far more emotional representation of the atmosphere, truly musical. Bravo!

 

Here's another comparison:

 

Dynamic Test - Best of Chesky Jazz, Vol 2

JH16: Smashing drum solo, perfectly rendered.

JH13: Starts up identically until about 45 seconds.Less robust, tuned more towards cymbals and treble emphasis. A good copy, but not convincing.

Winner: JH16

 

 

 


Edited by Sonic 748i - 5/8/10 at 12:14am
post #130 of 184

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic 748i View Post


 


3XO, did you notice this?


In Warp's comparison there is a HUGE contradiction here which makes me not respect this whole review anymore.


In one of the many comparisons he said:

 

JH13: Good bass tonality and transparency. Bass is not overpowering, just present. Piano solo nicely rendered in midrange. Percussion lives in the background, sometimes seems missing. This is a robustly rendered recording, but forward sounding. Sounds like the whole track lives between lower and upper midrange spectrum. What happened to cymbals?

JH16: Awesome dynamic in opening sequence. Lushness all over, cymbals are back. Lenny’s singing no longer carries the entire tracking. Piano and bass harmonics allow picturing of an expansive local, missing from the previous representation. I think the extended headroom is paying off here big time! Interestingly, Lenny sounds like a carbon copy from the previous JH13 session. Overall, far more emotional representation of the atmosphere, truly musical. Bravo!

 

Here's another comparison:

 

Dynamic Test - Best of Chesky Jazz, Vol 2

JH16: Smashing drum solo, perfectly rendered.

JH13: Starts up identically until about 45 seconds.Less robust, tuned more towards cymbals and treble emphasis. A good copy, but not convincing.

Winner: JH16

 

 

 


I'm not eligible to discredit anyone's listening experiences, but I can just say that I don't hear similar discrepancies. My JH13s and JH16s both sound almost exactly the same except for the weight in the low end. I have never detected any amount of differences in their renditions of anything beyond, say, 100Hz. Midrange and treble sound exactly the same to me.

 

It's also worth noting that I can't make the JH13s sound like the JH16s.. nor vice versa. I'm only using software equalization to try it, but it just doesn't fly. I've tried different widths and additive/subtractive dB around 30-80Hz, but it just didn't work out.

post #131 of 184


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post

Quote:


I'm not eligible to discredit anyone's listening experiences, but I can just say that I don't hear similar discrepancies. My JH13s and JH16s both sound almost exactly the same except for the weight in the low end. I have never detected any amount of differences in their renditions of anything beyond, say, 100Hz. Midrange and treble sound exactly the same to me.

 

It's also worth noting that I can't make the JH13s sound like the JH16s.. nor vice versa. I'm only using software equalization to try it, but it just doesn't fly. I've tried different widths and additive/subtractive dB around 30-80Hz, but it just didn't work out.

Exactly what I thought. Thanks for your input.
 

post #132 of 184

.


Edited by BoogieWoogie - 5/8/10 at 9:42am
post #133 of 184

i just wanted some opinions on which earphones to get for my setup:

 

2G 16GB Ipod Touch and Sansa Clip 4GB

 

lol.  i don't plan on getting an amps or dacs or whatever.  since there's a sale on the jh13's today, i'm leaning towards those but whichever I buy will last me at least a few years so i want to get the most mileage out of them.  i'm willing to spend the extra for the 16's if they'll sound better unamped coming from the Ipod touch or the clip.

 

 


Edited by aye5882 - 5/13/10 at 5:02pm
post #134 of 184

IMHO the JH13 at $899 is the deal of the year. The JH16 is simply not worth $250 more when they're, frankly, very comparable.

post #135 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post

IMHO the JH13 at $899 is the deal of the year. The JH16 is simply not worth $250 more when they're, frankly, very comparable.



And where do you find the JH13 for $899 ?

JH Audio sells it for $1,099 so the price difference is only $50. Only discounted product in their web shop is the JH11 at $850.


Edited by nc8000 - 5/13/10 at 6:14pm
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