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Review: Clash of the Titans (3D) - JH16 Pro vs. JH13 Pro - Page 8

post #106 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by midoo1990 View Post
can you please stop polluting this thread with your meaningless speculations about jh16?you should yourself take Boomana's advice"if you haven't heard it,DONT comment on it!"
you said at the begining of this thread that you like the neutrality of jh13 and you know you wouldn't like jh16,so why do you keep asking about it's bass and stating things that are not true just because you imagine how they would sound??
x2...
post #107 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by midoo1990 View Post
can you please stop polluting this thread with your meaningless speculations about jh16?you should yourself take Boomana's advice"if you haven't heard it,DONT comment on it!"
you said at the begining of this thread that you like the neutrality of jh13 and you know you wouldn't like jh16,so why do you keep asking about it's bass and stating things that are not true just because you imagine how they would sound??
x3.....
post #108 of 184
I don't think you guys understand, I'm not talking about bass here:

In Jude's comparison of the 13's and 16's he said
" Listening to music with little to no content below 100Hz results in a virtual toss-up between the JH13 Pro and the JH16 Pro, though still they're not exactly the same (but close enough to, again, be a virtual toss-up). Treble performance, by the way--one of the JH13 Pro's great strengths--is just as good with the JH16 Pro, with all the detail, extension and shimmer of the JH13. "

But in Warp's comparison he is hearing sonic differences that are not
subtle in frequencies other than the bass, hmmm...


In one of the many comparisons he said:
JH13: "Good bass tonality and transparency. Bass is not overpowering, just present. Piano solo nicely rendered in midrange. Percussion lives in the background, sometimes seems missing. This is a robustly rendered recording, but forward sounding. Sounds like the whole track lives between lower and upper midrange spectrum. What happened to cymbals?

JH16: Awesome dynamic in opening sequence. Lushness all over, cymbals are back. Lenny’s singing no longer carries the entire tracking. Piano and bass harmonics allow picturing of an expansive local, missing from the previous representation. I think the extended headroom is paying off here big time! Interestingly, Lenny sounds like a carbon copy from the previous JH13 session. Overall, far more emotional representation of the atmosphere, truly musical. Bravo!"

Here's another comparison:

" Dynamic Test - Best of Chesky Jazz, Vol 2

JH16: Smashing drum solo, perfectly rendered.

JH13: Starts up identically until about 45 seconds.Less robust, tuned more towards cymbals and treble emphasis. A good copy, but not convincing.

Winner: JH16 "

In the first comparison he stated the JH13 Pro's didn't render the cymbals which is lack of treble response, cymbals requires that the speaker can reproduce the lower treble and upper treble. The JH13's have no problem doing that since it's a fairly neutral earphone. Now in the second comparison the JH13's are all of a sudden tuned more towards cymbals and treble emphasis and the JH16's tweeters just shut off and rendered the music perfectly. How could this be?

Warp please answer that. Thanks!
post #109 of 184
post #110 of 184
Thread Starter 
<Sigh>

Other than the fact that all reviews are subjective to the individual's hearing, test equipment, etc., I can't offer any additional impressions from a historical perspective. That is how I heard it with my equipment as described. Feel free to agree, disagree with any of it. I think this is a healthy discussion but only up to a point, where it becomes somewhat meaningless. You seem to be perfectly happy with the JH13 Pro's performance so why does it matter to you how the JH16 Pro sounds?

I have put in the effort to conduct and publish the review in the interest to help those who are considering purchasing one of them, and offer some additional perspective that could help making a more educated decision before they have committed to one or the other. Validation of past buying decisions was simply outside my scope...LOL
post #111 of 184
Hah, this thread has taken a humorous turn. Warp, we (or at least I) don't mean to be attacking your impressions, it's just that you are one of the few with the 16s who is willing to offer detailed analysis. And we're starving for details right now.

If you could please just answer the core of my earlier set of questions, I'd really appreciate it. You've said that the JH16 offers more than just better quality bass than the 13, but it takes some extrapolation (at least for me) to determine exactly what else is different. Is it fair to say that the 16 offers an expanded headstage and a more visceral/emotional presentation? And what else, besides higher quality bass, can the extra visceral impact be attributed to? Are "headstage" and "headroom" the same for you?

Thanks.
post #112 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by warp08 View Post
<Sigh>

Other than the fact that all reviews are subjective to the individual's hearing, test equipment, etc., I can't offer any additional impressions from a historical perspective. That is how I heard it with my equipment as described. Feel free to agree, disagree with any of it. I think this is a healthy discussion but only up to a point, where it becomes somewhat meaningless. You seem to be perfectly happy with the JH13 Pro's performance so why does it matter to you how the JH16 Pro sounds?

I have put in the effort to conduct and publish the review in the interest to help those who are considering purchasing one of them, and offer some additional perspective that could help making a more educated decision before they have committed to one or the other. Validation of past buying decisions was simply outside my scope...LOL
I respect that, sorry if I came across offensively to anyone. Enjoy your gear guys! I know I'm enjoying mines!
post #113 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by warp08 View Post
<Sigh>

Other than the fact that all reviews are subjective to the individual's hearing, test equipment, etc., I can't offer any additional impressions from a historical perspective. That is how I heard it with my equipment as described. Feel free to agree, disagree with any of it. I think this is a healthy discussion but only up to a point, where it becomes somewhat meaningless. You seem to be perfectly happy with the JH13 Pro's performance so why does it matter to you how the JH16 Pro sounds?

I have put in the effort to conduct and publish the review in the interest to help those who are considering purchasing one of them, and offer some additional perspective that could help making a more educated decision before they have committed to one or the other. Validation of past buying decisions was simply outside my scope...LOL
The bold text is entirely true. The reason I find the JH13 Pro's bass quantity 10% of the time over done and 90% of the time just right is because I'm using the wonderful DAC in the HiFiMAN. DAC's play a major role in the sound. Using my iPod Touch has a DAC leaves me wanted more body to the sound especially in the bass. Same thing goes for my laptop and Zune 120gb. The music loses everything through these low quality DAC's.
post #114 of 184
Hi Sonic,

Just to make sure I'm getting you, do you mean iPod Touch directly or IPod Touch fed into an amp like the Protector or RX? My portable rig is an iTouch into a Protector. I don't feel like I lose bass response compared to my home Apogee DAC (though I lose detail, etc.). When I go straight into the iTouch then it's a huge difference. But, that's a matter of the iTouch's weak headphone amp section not DAC section.

I'm wondering about upgrading to a JH16 myself, and would like to corroborate what I'm hearing. Thanks.
post #115 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardsean View Post
Hi Sonic,

Just to make sure I'm getting you, do you mean iPod Touch directly or IPod Touch fed into an amp like the Protector or RX? My portable rig is an iTouch into a Protector. I don't feel like I lose bass response compared to my home Apogee DAC (though I lose detail, etc.). When I go straight into the iTouch then it's a huge difference. But, that's a matter of the iTouch's weak headphone amp section not DAC section.

I'm wondering about upgrading to a JH16 myself, and would like to corroborate what I'm hearing. Thanks.
Hey edwardsean, it's with my iPod Touch feeding the Protector via line out.
post #116 of 184
Hi Warp, I am wondering if you are planning to go balanced and use the protector as a source?
At this time I am thinking of getting the hifiman with jh16 pro but I am worried this might have TOO much bass if I use it with the protector.
Greetings, Anouk,
post #117 of 184
Thread Starter 

I am using both the Protector and the TTVJ Slim as a source with the JH16s.  I do not have a HifiMan, nor have I heard one so I cannot offer anything beyond a speculative opinion.  Using my iMod with the Protector sounds lovely and crisp without any overbearing bass presence with the JH16s.  In fact, it is an awesome combination.  I understand that the newer design Burr-Brown DAC component in the HFM is rated higher than the Wolfson DAC chip in my 5th gen iMod, so if anything, it should sound even better, assuming a quality IC between the HFM pre-amp out and the Protector.

 

I hope this helps.

post #118 of 184
Thread Starter 

"Just to make sure I'm getting you, do you mean iPod Touch directly or IPod Touch fed into an amp like the Protector or RX? My portable rig is an iTouch into a Protector. I don't feel like I lose bass response compared to my home Apogee DAC (though I lose detail, etc.). When I go straight into the iTouch then it's a huge difference. But, that's a matter of the iTouch's weak headphone amp section not DAC section. I'm wondering about upgrading to a JH16 myself, and would like to corroborate what I'm hearing. Thanks."

 

An iPod Touch or even my iPad, for that matter is not a quality source DAP for a JH13 or JH16, when direct connected to the headphone out.  I have tested my iPad a bit last Saturday.  It wasn't terrible, but the soundstage was much narrower and there was a definite upper bass hump (usually referred to as the "iPod Sound)."  If you drop in a HQ LOD and amp, it improves considerably, but you still go thru a miniaturized, relatively low-grade DAC chip built into these devices. Until the GR9 transport or similar device materializes, that's the best option if you don't want to go to the HFM or iMod route.

 

The iPad USB-out is useful (with the optional Connection Kit), since you can hook up a USB DAC/Amp and bypass all that crap.  I'm hoping that OS 4.0 in the next gen iPod Touch may allow this sort of connectivity, which would be awesome, if they were to up the storage to 128GB.  I would consider that to replace the iMod, if that was possible.  We'll have to see.

 

Just my 2 cents.

post #119 of 184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dj nellie View Post

Hah, this thread has taken a humorous turn. Warp, we (or at least I) don't mean to be attacking your impressions, it's just that you are one of the few with the 16s who is willing to offer detailed analysis. And we're starving for details right now.

If you could please just answer the core of my earlier set of questions, I'd really appreciate it. You've said that the JH16 offers more than just better quality bass than the 13, but it takes some extrapolation (at least for me) to determine exactly what else is different. Is it fair to say that the 16 offers an expanded headstage and a more visceral/emotional presentation? And what else, besides higher quality bass, can the extra visceral impact be attributed to? Are "headstage" and "headroom" the same for you?

Thanks.

I'm not sure if I can offer any additional details that would be useful for you.  By headstage or headroom, I mean that the JH16s operate at a much higher efficiency and lower distortion levels when being pushed by Hi-Def Test Tracks such as HDTracks or Chesky reference recordings, due to their triple-bore quad-bass driver stack architecture.  I don't want to create a misrepresentation that the JH16s are limited to excellent bass representation only, since they can easily match the JH13 capabilities in the other parts of the spectrum.  I keep emphasizing it, because bass representation to me is simply THE most challenging for an IEM design without sounding thumping or suppressing other frequencies.  To me, aside from high-end audiophile full-size cans featuring massive driver(s), no earphone comes close to offering anything close to a properly tuned and fitted JH16 Pro.  Period.  I'm sure at some point Jerry or somebody else will figure out a way to supersede it, but in the here and now, this is it.  And I'm not offended at all if somebody disagrees with my opinions, that's what this forum is all about. 

 


 

post #120 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by warp08 View Post



To me, aside from high-end audiophile full-size cans featuring massive driver(s), no earphone comes close to offering anything close to a properly tuned and fitted JH16 Pro.  Period.  I'm sure at some point Jerry or somebody else will figure out a way to supersede it, but in the here and now, this is it.

 


 

That sums it up nicely.  Thank you for your detailed analysis and opinions.
 

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