Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › DIY (Do-It-Yourself) Discussions › Using 30AWG wire-wrap wire as hookup
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Using 30AWG wire-wrap wire as hookup

post #1 of 4
Thread Starter 
I just built a Pimeta v1 (before this I have only built a CMoy) and I tried using some thin wire-wrap wire as hookup wire because it seemed to be of good quality. When I listen to the amp with no audio source I get a loud hum. Moving around the wires seems to lessen the noise, but the noise is most dramatically reduced by lifting the entire amp off the table and holding it in the air. I don't have an enclosure yet for this amp. Could the noise be coming from the hookup wire, the lack of an enclosure, or both?
LL
post #2 of 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by reedlaw View Post
I just built a Pimeta v1 (before this I have only built a CMoy) and I tried using some thin wire-wrap wire as hookup wire because it seemed to be of good quality. When I listen to the amp with no audio source I get a loud hum. Moving around the wires seems to lessen the noise, but the noise is most dramatically reduced by lifting the entire amp off the table and holding it in the air. I don't have an enclosure yet for this amp. Could the noise be coming from the hookup wire, the lack of an enclosure, or both?
I use the 30 guage wire-wrap wire on pretty much everything and don't have such a problem. I even use it unshielded for interconnects. For unshielded wire to pick up hum from the transformer it has to be very close - almost right against it. An early headphone amplifier I built has the input wires going past the toroidal mains transformer within 1.5 cm and still no audible hum can be detected.

An enclosure will help, especially if it is thick aluminium, but you should be able to get it working OK out in the open first. There are lots of reasons for getting hum and I have found different causes at different times, but have never had to resort to shielding connecting wires.

Some possibilities are:
1. faulty wiring
2. ground loops
3. electromagnetic coupling to transformer at mains frequency
4. ripple on DC power supply
5. finger touching circuitry!

You could have incorrectly wired the signal return or power ground - re-check every connection point against your schematic.
Do you get the same hum in both channels?
Does it occur at all settings of the volume control, or only at max & min?
What are you using for a power supply?
Can you measure AC voltage on the DC power rails?
Does the hum disappear when you have a source connected?
Have you checked for sources of AC in the vicinity (e.g. soldering iron transformer, power supply, flourescent lights, etc)?
Your bodily presence will affect things too, so try raising the circuit up by putting it on a box or some books, so you don't have to touch it. Sometimes even waving your hand near a circuit can make a difference (the enclosure would help in this case).
post #3 of 4
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the thorough reply, Murray.

Quote:
Originally Posted by murrays View Post
Some possibilities are:
1. faulty wiring
2. ground loops
3. electromagnetic coupling to transformer at mains frequency
4. ripple on DC power supply
5. finger touching circuitry!
1. The wiring may have been a big part of the problem. I re-read Tangent's tutorial and found that I should twist related wires together, so I twisted the 3 input wires together and the 3 output wires together. That eliminated a lot of the hiss right away.
2. If I use a battery could there be any ground loops? I tried adding a 22 ohm resistor to the feedback loop. This didn't produce any discernible difference.
3. I'm using a 9V so this shouldn't apply.
4. I'm using two cheap 1000uF caps on the power rails. Next time I order more parts, I will switch these out with some that Tangent recommends.
5. I try to avoid my finger touching circuitry

Quote:
Originally Posted by murrays View Post
You could have incorrectly wired the signal return or power ground - re-check every connection point against your schematic.
Do you get the same hum in both channels?
Does it occur at all settings of the volume control, or only at max & min?
What are you using for a power supply?
Can you measure AC voltage on the DC power rails?
Does the hum disappear when you have a source connected?
Have you checked for sources of AC in the vicinity (e.g. soldering iron transformer, power supply, flourescent lights, etc)?
Your bodily presence will affect things too, so try raising the circuit up by putting it on a box or some books, so you don't have to touch it. Sometimes even waving your hand near a circuit can make a difference (the enclosure would help in this case).
I'm using Tangent's PCB so I don't think there should be any problems with the circuit. I get the same hum in both channels. The louder the volume control, the louder the hum. At full volume it sounds like running water (tons of white noise)--but only with my source connected. My source is an iPod Nano which I intend to diymod soon. Like I said above, I'm using a single rechargeable 9V battery as a power supply. The hum is much quieter, though still present, with no source connected. When I turn the volume all the way up with no source I hear all kinds of pops and hisses, especially when handling the volume pot. Moving the amp away from my computer desk helps a bit.
post #4 of 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by reedlaw View Post
Thanks for the thorough reply, Murray.



1. The wiring may have been a big part of the problem. I re-read Tangent's tutorial and found that I should twist related wires together, so I twisted the 3 input wires together and the 3 output wires together. That eliminated a lot of the hiss right away.
2. If I use a battery could there be any ground loops? I tried adding a 22 ohm resistor to the feedback loop. This didn't produce any discernible difference.
3. I'm using a 9V so this shouldn't apply.
4. I'm using two cheap 1000uF caps on the power rails. Next time I order more parts, I will switch these out with some that Tangent recommends.
5. I try to avoid my finger touching circuitry

I'm using Tangent's PCB so I don't think there should be any problems with the circuit. I get the same hum in both channels. The louder the volume control, the louder the hum. At full volume it sounds like running water (tons of white noise)--but only with my source connected. My source is an iPod Nano which I intend to diymod soon. Like I said above, I'm using a single rechargeable 9V battery as a power supply. The hum is much quieter, though still present, with no source connected. When I turn the volume all the way up with no source I hear all kinds of pops and hisses, especially when handling the volume pot. Moving the amp away from my computer desk helps a bit.
OK, defining some terms might help here:
I usually take hum to be low frequency, at mains frequency or its first harmonic (50 Hz to 120 Hz). This will sound like a low-pitched HUMMMM or BZZZZZ, depending on the frequency and waveform.

Your reply mentioned hiss (HISSSSSSS), the sound of running water and white noise. This is a different issue to hum. It can be the result of the amplifier being unstable and oscillating at high frequency. This can certainly be affected by putting your hand near the circuitry (in my experience) and can be seen clearly on an oscilliscope. A symptom of oscillation can be the chip overheating because of all the energy being dissipated in the oscillation. Does the chip feel really hot to touch? It may pay to read Tangents notes on opamp stability. All his notes are very good in general and worth reading.

Some of the noise you hear is probably just what's present on the unterminated inputs, e.g. the pot movement. One thing I do is have a couple of RCA plugs with 1k resistors soldered from signal to ground. I put these on the input plugs of an amplifier if I am checking for such spurious noises with no source attached. This can help if the amplifier expects to have a low impedance source attached. At one stage I had various sorts of hum and hiss to track down. I also had to experiment with moving parts of the circuit in relation to other parts (e.g. large input capacitors). However, your amplifier is on a cicuitboard, so hopefully has been worked out by those who know better.
It may pay to search for threads specific to the Pimeta as each circuit has its own quirks and other builders may be familiar with this problem.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › DIY (Do-It-Yourself) Discussions › Using 30AWG wire-wrap wire as hookup