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Crosstalk on Audio Technica M50 - Page 2

post #16 of 40

Thanks, earfonia. You're awesome! I'm going to have to recable my headphones too now, once I get my hands on some starquad.

 

I detected the crosstalk on my M50s too, and also in a bunch of my cheaper headphones. But no crosstalk on my Grado SR60 (the old version). And from having replaced the 3.5mm jack in the past, I know the SR60 has four wires inside the cable, though not as nicely done as the starquad, and not shielded either.

 

That brings me to my (n00b) question. Does combining the ground wires with the starquad shielding at the jack end do anything? My Shure E2Cs use a shielded cable, but with only 2 wires inside, using the shield as the common ground path. And they have crosstalk.

 

post #17 of 40

Okay, I found the answer to my question, in case anyone else didn't already know but was interested.

 

Cable shielding does not protect against crosstalk, but it does reduce electromagnetic interference from outside the cable. And shielding must be grounded to be effective. Combining the ground wires with the shield allows anything picked up by the shield to flow to the ground, even if the other end of the shield isn't connected to anything. So while my 4-wire unshielded SR60s don't get crosstalk, they sure do beep loudly whenever my cellphone goes off while nearby.

 

Actually, is the stock M50 cable shielded? I suppose I'll find out eventually after I cut it open.

post #18 of 40

nice pictures too!  You've obviously got a setup for it, how are you doing them? 

 

I wish I had soldering skills so i could recable all my phones.  Maybe I should learn.  argh

post #19 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoga Flame View Post
Actually, is the stock M50 cable shielded? I suppose I'll find out eventually after I cut it open.


Hi, Sorry for late reply, has been busy these days :)

 

No the M50 stock cable is not shielded.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoga Flame View Post

That brings me to my (n00b) question. Does combining the ground wires with the starquad shielding at the jack end do anything? My Shure E2Cs use a shielded cable, but with only 2 wires inside, using the shield as the common ground path. And they have crosstalk.

 

 

You are right, combining the shield at the source end, is only to reduce interference, not for crosstalk.

Using shielding as ground channel is not recommended, and will surely cause crosstalk :)


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmdevils View Post

nice pictures too!  You've obviously got a setup for it, how are you doing them? 


During the testing, I had 2 x M50, one already recabled.  And I soldered the test cable directly to the right channel driver, connected to the input of my firewire audio interface, that's how I did the measurement.

 

I have others single ended headphones as well, Shure SRH840, Shure SRH750DJ, they all have crosstalk problem, need to recable, but haven't got time to do it :)

post #20 of 40

no, I meant how are you doing the pictures

post #21 of 40

No crosstalk from my HD650...first, I have tried the old way, just listening to them, but due to open design it was hard to concentrate (anyway, I did't heard crosstalk this way)

Secondly, I unplugged one earcup (the one that was playing) and I was hearing nothing on the other, with my amplifier next to max...

Another way is to plug the headphone, but not fully, just one channel (left, on TRS connector) and play the sound on the right earcup...


Edited by UtzY - 6/2/10 at 10:24pm
post #22 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmdevils View Post

no, I meant how are you doing the pictures


I see :)  I use Panasonic GF1 with Metz flash, and one small slave flash, nothing special :D

post #23 of 40

hmm.  well good work, it's always nice to see well lit pictures

post #24 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UtzY View Post

No crosstalk from my HD650...first, I have tried the old way, just listening to them, but due to open design it was hard to concentrate (anyway, I did't heard crosstalk this way)

Secondly, I unplugged one earcup (the one that was playing) and I was hearing nothing on the other, with my amplifier next to max...

Another way is to plug the headphone, but not fully, just one channel (left, on TRS connector) and play the sound on the right earcup...


Crosstalk usually occurs on single ended cable, where Left and Right channels share the same ground wire.  HD650 is dual ended, so no crosstalk issue.

post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by earfonia View Post




Crosstalk usually occurs on single ended cable, where Left and Right channels share the same ground wire.  HD650 is dual ended, so no crosstalk issue.


Yes, no audible crosstalk, but IMHO this is the way we can test headphones for audible crosstalk...I did't had single-ended headphones for this test...:)

post #26 of 40

To anyone who can help:

 

I just bought a pair of ATH-M50s's, and was planning on recabling them. However, I was thinking more along the lines of installing a 3.5mm jack on the cans themselves, and using a 3.5mm patch cable or similar to connect them. After seeing these posts, though, the whole "microphonics" issue kind of scared me...keep in mind that I'm totally new to this, but would installing a jack and using a separate cable reduce audio quality and create a lot of microphonic interference?

post #27 of 40

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson12106 View Post

To anyone who can help:

 

I just bought a pair of ATH-M50s's, and was planning on recabling them. However, I was thinking more along the lines of installing a 3.5mm jack on the cans themselves, and using a 3.5mm patch cable or similar to connect them. After seeing these posts, though, the whole "microphonics" issue kind of scared me...keep in mind that I'm totally new to this, but would installing a jack and using a separate cable reduce audio quality and create a lot of microphonic interference?


The microphonics would have more to do with the cable you use than the jack. But since I don't know of anyone who has actually tried this yet, you'll probably have to do it to find out.

 

However, since this thread is about crosstalk, I should point out that using a stereo 3.5mm jack on the headphones means the L+R ground channels will be combined there. Meaning there is no benefit from using a 4 wire cable in that case. Still, in terms of crosstalk, it will be just as good as the stock 3-wire M50.

post #28 of 40

I shortened the cable on my straight M50 to 120cm. I just desoldered it from the PCB, cut it, then soldered it back on. Simplest project ever and now I can use them on the bus etc. It probably reduces the capacitance of the common ground which is a bonus but that wasn't really the goal.

athm50.jpg

post #29 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson12106 View Post

To anyone who can help:

 

I just bought a pair of ATH-M50s's, and was planning on recabling them. However, I was thinking more along the lines of installing a 3.5mm jack on the cans themselves, and using a 3.5mm patch cable or similar to connect them. After seeing these posts, though, the whole "microphonics" issue kind of scared me...keep in mind that I'm totally new to this, but would installing a jack and using a separate cable reduce audio quality and create a lot of microphonic interference?



Microphonics or cable's jacket noise, is different from the crosstalk caused by single wire ground.  Microphonics is due to the material type of the cable's jacket and how it is attached to the housing of the headphones.  Microphonics is mechanical vibration on the cable's jacket, transmitted to the headphone's housing, causing some audible noise.  We can reduce microphonics using softer and more flexible material for cable's jacket, like the rubbery type, or avoiding the cable's jacket to be in contact with the headphones housing.

 

The blue Canare cable I used for my M50 is quite prone to microphonics, but since I use it with desktop amp, therefore less cable movement, it doesn't bother me.

 

If you want the cable to be detachable near the driver, you can use mini 4 pin XLR near the driver.  The problem with mini 4 pin XLR is, it is expensive, difficult to solder because the pins are so close to each other, and cannot accommodate large cable.

 

For example, I re-cabled my Superlux HD669 to be balanced with detachable cable.  I use common mini jack near the headphone drivers.  I made 2 balanced cables for it, the White one is Canare L-4E6S, and the black one is Mogami Neglex 2534, they are both Star Quad cables.  I'm in the process of comparing both cables, the know the sound characteristic of both cables.  Maybe I should start a new thread for this one :)

 

P1080313w.jpg

 

P1080312w.jpg

 

Tested with my DIY, 'almost finished', Pseudo Balanced Amplifier bigsmile_face.gif  While comparing with ATH-M50 and Shure SRH750-DJ

P1080331w.jpg


Edited by earfonia - 2/21/11 at 4:00pm
post #30 of 40

Sweet picks.  I've never tried that Canare wire.

popcorn.gif

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