BHSE or Woo WES? - Page 7  

That's a worthy recommendation, spritzer. Your experience and technical knowledge make that seem an easy statement. But, believe me, I did a lot of looking and asking before I bought the V-capped WES, and I found several statements like yours but not an in-depth review. It's probably out there somewhere. If a signpost were added here, that might help those who follow keep from making the same mistake.

The problem with in depth reviews is that most of the experienced users can't see any point in writing them.  I fall into this camp but I also fail to see the point with many of these reviews.  There is no substance to speak of and most just copy whatever BS the manufacturer is spewing. 

The problem with NOT having in depth reviews is that the less experienced users have almost nothing to base their decisions on. Whether a reviewer just copies marketing BS has nothing to do with the length of the review. Whether their tastes, experience and perspective is right for the reader is another matter,

It's the inevitable result of internet forums that the reader has to continually make judgments on how worthwhile is the information they are reading. But their best chance is if there is a balanced selection of short, medium and long reviews, plus the one-liners from a cross-range of perspectives.

That's why it was so good to see ASR's comparison of the BHSE v KGSS. Not what I'd call in-depth, but nevertheless this was the first time that I can recall that a review of the BHSE went beyond one or two lines. The ongoing thread on the BHSE does overall provide good information, but it would of been much more informative, and in a shorter space of time, if a few more reviews like that had been posted along the way. 

A problem with amps on the price level of a BHSE is that not too many people will be able to try it for a significant time against a worthy competitor. ASR's was the first time I've seen a actual review of a KGSS and a BHSE with the same owner. In most cases, people report from what they heard at a meet, or it's pure hearsay, and you really can't expect too much information from that.

On another level, many members here only believe what they want to believe, and judge information very much in the light of who's reporting it. When I came up (as a nobody) with the info in April that the BHSE / 009 combo was good, but somewhat bright, nobody was interested - the consensus was that it had to heard to be trustworthy... which will be hard, considering the number of units in circulation.

All in all, comparing the number of opinions about the BHSE with the actual number of amps built, there has to be a ton of BS out there (and here). If you want to have concrete information, go get it yourself. If you don't have the budget, don't bother discussing it. You can sell a BHSE for the same amount you paid for it, so if you really want to try it, there's almost no risk. If you're serious about your hobby, it's not that much money. Everybody knows that a lot of the experience is highly subjective, so it will never be possible to base a decision solely on information gathered here - except to reduce cognitive dissonance, which seems to be a very important factor 

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachku 

 

On another level, many members here only believe what they want to believe, and judge information very much in the light of who's reporting it. When I came up (as a nobody) with the info in April that the BHSE / 009 combo was good, but somewhat bright, nobody was interested - the consensus was that it had to heard to be trustworthy... which will be hard, considering the number of units in circulation.

 

Thank you for sharing your opinion on the 009 being bright. Compared to what?

I think that they are bright compared to a 15" subwoffer by its self, for example. but not bright compared to a Grado HP2, Senn HD600/800, Omega2, AKG K1000, and probably a few more. They are very even handed IMO. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer 

The problem with in depth reviews is that most of the experienced users can't see any point in writing them.  

 

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAttorney 

The problem with NOT having in depth reviews is that the less experienced users have almost nothing to base their decisions on. Whether a reviewer just copies marketing BS has nothing to do with the length of the review. Whether their tastes, experience and perspective is right for the reader is another matter,

 

I dont think that there are many inexperienced users buying any of these 3 amps. Anyone looking at one should hopefully know enough about the other people who post about them to filter out the crap and get something meaningful. 

An A10, WES and Blue Hawaii were at a mini meet a year or so ago.  

http://www.head-fi.org/t/456845/nyc-local-mini-meet-electrostatic-shootout-on-2-days-notice

There aren't really many impressions in the thread, but as posted by spritzer who cares to write that.

I think its ironic that a meet with 5 people present generated about the same amount of posts as the last NYC area meet with at least 50 people in attendance. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenwith 
Sorry, I don't mean to thread hi-jack, but why is there a lack of love for the RSA A-10 Thunderbolt 2?

 

I've been lurking around these areas, and there hasn't been much word about it. Are there issues that I am not aware of? 

A lack of posts about any piece of gear on Head-Fi doesn't necessarily mean it has issues, it just has a lack of vocal owners (or owners at all, in some cases).
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by budx3385 
That's a worthy recommendation, spritzer. Your experience and technical knowledge make that seem an easy statement. But, believe me, I did a lot of looking and asking before I bought the V-capped WES, and I found several statements like yours but not an in-depth review. It's probably out there somewhere. If a signpost were added here, that might help those who follow keep from making the same mistake.

Speaking to spritzer's point about "experienced users", experience isn't the difference IMO, moreso the average Head-Fier's ability to afford multiple multi-thousand-dollar amps, or in some cases the ability to keep & set up multiple amps. Most people on Head-Fi typically look to buy one amp at most, not 2 or 3, or more, especially for an electrostatic setup. Hence, an in-depth review by any one person would have to be by someone who can afford at least 2 amps, but more to the point, someone who wants to buy 2 amps - and I honestly can't think of many people who fall under that category, if any.

Even for so-called amateur (or professional) reviewers, who typically have better access to manufacturers, still have a hurdle to overcome - the interest for such a review, the ability to set up multiple amps, appropriate supporting gear (source & headphones), and an insightful ability to convey their experience in writing that most people can understand.

So aside from the infrequent Head-Fi meet where such things can be set up, I really don't see any chances for an actual one-person's review of the current electrostatic amp offerings ever happening.

Until then I recommend that most people research their info online (not just on Head-Fi but other sites as well) and make a serious effort to attend a meet, even if you have to travel to one. I know a lot of people would scoff at the idea of traveling to a meet (as it requires travel costs which can be expensive), but if you attend a great meet, any amount of travel cost will be more than offset by the personal experience that can be gained.

I might put up a GES vs BHSE review comparison when I get my BHSE, but I'm not really sure how useful it'll be because I don't have enough experience with other Stax headphones (notably the SR007MK1 and SR009), so the review may be only pertinent to MK2 owners.

Similarly, after swapping a lot of components in-and-out and trying out many music players on PC (CPlay, Fidelizer (not really a player), Foobar, JPlay, JRiver Jukebox, Stealth, VLC), I'm not really sure if a review will be particularly useful since I think a lot of people are unwilling to accept that each step in a chain can make a significant impact on the final signature.  For example, the MK2 is an important part of my setup, but a lot of the tweaks and adjustments I've done have all contributed towards the aggregate.  Any BHSE review I put up, I think, will probably end up being more of a review of my entire chain rather than of the BHSE itself, as I don't own enough sources and such to treat the BHSE as an absolute, even with all the 'extraneous' elements of my chain removed.

It'd be nice to have more reviews, like Asr's, on the BHSE, but I've given up on getting too hung-up over what other people think.  I've read hundreds of posts about gear here, only to try the headphone or amp and come to an opinion that doesn't match the majority.  I agree with the posts above that most people who have ponied up for a BHSE probably have a decent idea (even if only conceptual) of what they're signing up for, based upon doing their own impedance match of what the vets say about other stat gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachku 

A problem with amps on the price level of a BHSE is that not too many people will be able to try it for a significant time against a worthy competitor. ASR's was the first time I've seen a actual review of a KGSS and a BHSE with the same owner. In most cases, people report from what they heard at a meet, or it's pure hearsay, and you really can't expect too much information from that.

 

On another level, many members here only believe what they want to believe, and judge information very much in the light of who's reporting it. When I came up (as a nobody) with the info in April that the BHSE / 009 combo was good, but somewhat bright, nobody was interested - the consensus was that it had to heard to be trustworthy... which will be hard, considering the number of units in circulation.

 

All in all, comparing the number of opinions about the BHSE with the actual number of amps built, there has to be a ton of BS out there (and here). If you want to have concrete information, go get it yourself. If you don't have the budget, don't bother discussing it. You can sell a BHSE for the same amount you paid for it, so if you really want to try it, there's almost no risk. If you're serious about your hobby, it's not that much money. Everybody knows that a lot of the experience is highly subjective, so it will never be possible to base a decision solely on information gathered here - except to reduce cognitive dissonance, which seems to be a very important factor 

Is there a formula someone can use to determine the amount of income to spend, based on ones salary? You know like the 3 month salary rule for Wedding Rings. Why is this hobby more expensive then my wife's wedding ring...
 

I've read more than a few people mention delaying car purchases in favor of audio gear.  Could also give up a few overseas vacations in exchange for an awesome headphone rig.  Unlike a vacation, you can sell back an audio rig and recoup 50-70% of the purchase price on core components.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian 

I've read more than a few people mention delaying car purchases in favor of audio gear.  Could also give up a few overseas vacations in exchange for an awesome headphone rig.  Unlike a vacation, you can sell back an audio rig and recoup 50-70% of the purchase price on core components.

And that's just the monetary aspect of it. What about all those sleepless nights of 'I must have it'. For me it's the BHSE/SR-009, and I've never listen to an Electrostatic system in my life. However, based on all the collective reviews/comments/discussions/etc., I've formed this opinion and convinced myself that this would be my ultimate system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod 

Thank you for sharing your opinion on the 009 being bright. Compared to what?

I think that they are bright compared to a 15" subwoffer by its self, for example. but not bright compared to a Grado HP2, Senn HD600/800, Omega2, AKG K1000, and probably a few more. They are very even handed IMO. 

 

Driven by the KGSS, the SR-009 sound brighter than the Omega 2 (SR-007mk1) in my experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer 

The problem with in depth reviews is that most of the experienced users can't see any point in writing them. 

Why is there no point in posting in-depth reviews, while there is a point in posting other things? I would have thought that, if anything, in-depth reviews would be more valuable... 

The whole issue reviewing anything at the BHSE is what do you compare it to?  The WES and A-10 are just expensive and don't offer anything the Stax amps can't match or indeed far exceed in terms of performance.  The DIY T2 or the SRM-T2 would be a logical comparison but both are very rare, very expensive and not available anywhere.  That just leaves us with the KGSS and KGSSHV but there we have the issue of them being cheaper and naturally therefor not being anywhere close in performance...   
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by visualguy 

Driven by the KGSS, the SR-009 sound brighter than the Omega 2 (SR-007mk1) in my experience.

 

Ditto.  Nowhere near as bright a Grado's or even the SR-507 or SR-X Mk3 PRO though. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer 

The whole issue reviewing anything at the BHSE is what do you compare it to?  The WES and A-10 are just expensive and don't offer anything the Stax amps can't match or indeed far exceed in terms of performance.  The DIY T2 or the SRM-T2 would be a logical comparison but both are very rare, very expensive and not available anywhere.  That just leaves us with the KGSS and KGSSHV but there we have the issue of them being cheaper and naturally therefor not being anywhere close in performance...    

 

Heh.

I've heard all three (DIY-T2, BH, KGSSHV) as well as the competitors (WES, GES, the Cavalli Prototype) through my 009s.

The long and short of it is that all three KG designed amps trump anything else out there. The difference is not subtle. If you can afford one of these amps, by all means buy/build one. You won't be sorry.

The BH and T2 are a cut above the KGSSHV, but the KGSSHV is no slouch and between the two (BH and T2) its hard to pick a winner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoney 

Heh.

 

I've heard all three (DIY-T2, BH, KGSSHV) as well as the competitors (WES, GES, the Cavalli Prototype) through my 009s.

 

The long and short of it is that all three KG designed amps trump anything else out there. The difference is not subtle. If you can afford one of these amps, by all means buy/build one. You won't be sorry.

 

The BH and T2 are a cut above the KGSSHV, but the KGSSHV is no slouch and between the two (BH and T2) its hard to pick a winner.

Curious to hear the KGSSHV and BHSE against the newest iteration of the Cavalli LL . And if i recall correctly, the Cavalli LL was powered via a single ended source at the NY meet where you heard it.

So it will be interesting indeed to see what a balanced source like the Assemblage DAC 3.1 can do with the amp and compare the amps on equal footing.  Perhaps i will get to compare the two at the NorCal meet in Feb as I plan to be there.