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Keyboard-Fi - Page 50

post #736 of 1600

No problem, glad to be of assistance! My current keyboard is, as I think I've said, one of the Apple wireless keyboards. So I may bottom it out but I do so because the travel is very short.

 

OK, so I just pushed the purchase on a Filco Majes-Touch 2 tenkeyless with brown switches. I was close to going Leopold but a few things changed my mind. First was that if I bought through Amazon I could return the keyboard. No muss, no fuss. Second was that, with Prime, I wouldn't pay for shipping (I did in this case so I could get it tomorrow but that was just $4).

 

The third, however, had to do with something I read about the Leopolds. As mentioned here some of the switches are a little different from the likes of Filcos and a few others. Apparently, this can make it harder to get parts or use custom key-caps. It's not a "quality" issue so much as a customization and repairability issue.

 

So... Yeah. It arrives tomorrow! I'll get it at work but I doubt I'll actually set it up here due to the loudness of it. Though, I hope I don't fall too in love with it as then I might feel a need to replace my work keyboard, too! I'm sure my coworkers would LOVE that.

post #737 of 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva View Post

Edit 2: as for the otaku thing, i think its mainly jsut that nerds would be the only people to think it was cool to have an unmarked keyboard, like i probably could operate one, but i just wouldnt want to -_-

I'm using an unmarked keyboard right now. Mainly because I'm using colemak instead of QWERTY and I was thinking that it would confuse me a lot when I look at my keyboard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougofTheAbaci View Post

So... Yeah. It arrives tomorrow! I'll get it at work but I doubt I'll actually set it up here due to the loudness of it. Though, I hope I don't fall too in love with it as then I might feel a need to replace my work keyboard, too! I'm sure my coworkers would LOVE that.

Same one as I'm tying on right now. Grats! The sound isn't that bad to be honest. There are people sleeping fairly nearby right now and I don't think I'm waking them up right now. (well, hopefully not anyway)
post #738 of 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnOYiN View Post

I'm using an unmarked keyboard right now. Mainly because I'm using colemak instead of QWERTY and I was thinking that it would confuse me a lot when I look at my keyboard.

 

That's where I would just move the keys on the keyboard around until I got them to where I wanted them.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnOYiN View Post

Grats! The sound isn't that bad to be honest. There are people sleeping fairly nearby right now and I don't think I'm waking them up right now. (well, hopefully not anyway)
 

I'm not too worried about the sounds, at least not when I get back to my apartment. But I share an open space and there are no cubicle walls. Sound carries pretty far as it is. Granted, I don't think people would care overly much. I might break down and give it a try. We'll see.

post #739 of 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnOYiN View Post


I'm using an unmarked keyboard right now. Mainly because I'm using colemak instead of QWERTY and I was thinking that it would confuse me a lot when I look at my keyboard.

 

Great, i just speant like half an hour reading about colemak...looks interesting, i like that it maintains most of the used shortcuts, but still dramatically reduces how far your fingers move to type, though i guess it isnt really any faster, there would be less fatigue.

 

this is an interesting site though http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/v1/

post #740 of 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougofTheAbaci View Post

That's where I would just move the keys on the keyboard around until I got them to where I wanted them.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Problem is, the top, middle and bottom rows aren't the same keys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva View Post

Great, i just speant like half an hour reading about colemak...looks interesting, i like that it maintains most of the used shortcuts, but still dramatically reduces how far your fingers move to type, though i guess it isnt really any faster, there would be less fatigue.

this is an interesting site though http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/v1/

I mainly started using it to combat RSI and it has worked quite well so far. As far as going faster is concenrned, it takes a long time to just get to the speeds your used to again. Maybe it's possible to go a little faster due to generally smaller finger movements, but I doubt it's going to make that much of a difference. It's more likely that people who start using colemak practice more and think more about how they type than most other people.

One of the things colemak has that I can recommend to anyone, whether you're using QWERTY or another layout, is to change your caplock key to backspace. It's amazing.
post #741 of 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva View Post

 

Ah, that would explain it. Are PBT keycaps better? i didnt get into all the accesories that can go along with the better keyboards...

 

yeah i dont want white or unprinted lol im not otaku enough for that -_-

Sup Soup.

 

I'm not sure if you got a chance to try my keyboards at Chiunifi but I had PBTs their on the HHKB. They're more durable but they have a completly different feel. ABS are a little stickier surface and they shine more. I actually like ABS more, but to each his own.

post #742 of 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by slytown View Post

Sup Soup.

 

I'm not sure if you got a chance to try my keyboards at Chiunifi but I had PBTs their on the HHKB. They're more durable but they have a completly different feel. ABS are a little stickier surface and they shine more. I actually like ABS more, but to each his own.

 

i did not -_- but ill probably just buy one as soon as they are back in stock though

post #743 of 1600

So I've had a couple days with my new keyboard and I have a few observations:

 

1. Backspacing isn't as easy. It's a bit farther to reach and takes a bit more force than my chiclet-style Apple keyboard. In general I've found that to be a hassle but not a real pain in the butt.

 

2. My speed has not yet increased. In fact, I'd say it's slowed down. Part of this is I'm not used to typing on this keyboard and still try to bottom-out the keys, even though I don't need to. However, I'm making a concerted effort to stop doing that and I am improving again. I don't think my over-all accuracy has improved, but I would say accidental key-presses has decreased dramatically. In that I mean pressing the F and also hitting the G at the same time pretty much doesn't happen.

 

3. Having no media/OS keys is annoying. However, OS X is pretty clever when it comes to allowing you to set key commands for most things and where it fails there are plenty of quality, free apps that can pick up the slack. Though, 99% of things can be customized right through system preferences, including things like app-specific system-wide controls.

 

4. Having the command and alt keys in the "wrong" place is taking some getting used to. I might go and swap those keys around, as well as replacing the Windows key with a Mac cap. WASD Keyboards will do Mac-specific ones or I could simply buy custom-artwork ones that I've designed to look how I want. Stil might do that for a completely custom bottom row. Not sure.

 

5. The noise is louder than I expected, especially when I get going at "full" speed. A friend was over when I was typing and she said she didn't like the noise. I kind of do, actually. It makes it sound like I'm typing and bing productive. I think this will actually convince me to start writing again, which is an unforeseen benefit.

 

6. I don't think the response time is faster than my bluetooth keyboard, but being able to press more than two keys at once is amazing. It seems like a small thing but anyone who has used push-to-talk, tried to run forward and jump at the same time will know it's annoying to have to choose. Not being able to walk forward, melee and request help was a problem. That doesn't exist now.

 

So over all, while there are problems with this keyboard, most of them are related to how I'm used to typing and interacting with my computer. They are all small things that can be gotten around with other things I'm used to (I'm a big fan of keyboard shortcuts for everything). I also love how solid this thing is. And it is *really* solid. It feels like this keyboard is going to last me a very, very long time. Also, it has it's little fringe benefits that I didn't expect so I rather like it.

 

I still keep my bluetooth keyboard around, but I now mostly use it from across the room when I want to control Plex or something like that. Also, I couldn't see getting one of these for the office. People would kill me after a week, haha!

post #744 of 1600

Been using Logitech's illuminated keyboard for about a year now. Really love it!

 

My WPM increased about 10 from 125 to 135. Feels very good, looks even better.

post #745 of 1600

Hey doug, the same thing happened to me when i first got my mechanical. but once you get used to it, its impossible to ever go back. You really just have to get used to how much easier it is to press the keys compared to a regular rubber dome keyboard and then you're set

post #746 of 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRKnowva View Post

Hey doug, the same thing happened to me when i first got my mechanical. but once you get used to it, its impossible to ever go back. You really just have to get used to how much easier it is to press the keys compared to a regular rubber dome keyboard and then you're set

 

That's what I figured. Moving from a normal mouse to a gaming mouse took time but I'm glad I did it. Likewise, I know this will take time. Heck, CIEMs took a little bit of time before I figured them out and now I love mine.

 

However, tonight I swapped my Windows and Alt keys around to match a Mac layout and now I'm installing a registry hack in Windows to convince it that the keys have been switched.

post #747 of 1600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_Tarlow View Post

there is no best key for gaming. Its what you prefer. Brown and blue keys are pretty much the same with the exception of the sound they make. I'm curious who gave you your information. most people like blacks and reds for gaming. tactile feedback is for people who touch type, chances are you're going to bottom out the keyboard anyway when you game, which makes the tactile feedback pretty much useless. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougofTheAbaci View Post

 

Pretty much every article I've read has said blue or brown, depending on preference. The browns are supposedly better because of where the reset is relative to the action point. It allows for faster repeating than the blues, apparently.

 

Though, I'm also considering this as a general typing keyboard as I do a hefty amount of typing every day, be it code or other things. And from that perspective the brown sounds like the one I'd prefer the most.

 

Indeed, there is no  "gaming" switch, as much as companies like to market browns and reds as such, and blues to a lesser extent. In general, blues are regarded more as the "best" typing switch, with browns serving that middle ground, between typing and gaming, if you still like a tactile bump. Of course, it is all subjective, so choose what you like. I have quoted myself below for the showcase of the difference, which makes blues one of the more unique switches.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nildes View Post

Brown and red switches are definitely a bit more suitable for gaming, because they don't have that extra hump that exists on the blue switch. http://pcper.com/reviews/General-Tech/Rosewill-Second-Generation-Mechanical-Keyboard-Review-RK-9000-RK-9000BR-RK-90-1 As you can see, with blues, it is more difficult to "hover" and spam a key without letting it completely reset, because the centerpiece has that hump, unlike the other switches.

 
post #748 of 1600

My Realforce 104U

 

1000

 

Finally received my key caps, so I can begin typing on it. I left the prior grey key caps it had to my seller. Chinese exclusive keyboard, 30 g uniform weighting, lighter than Cherry reds, yet it's not a linear touch. I love it :)

 

I used to be a huge keyboard enthusiast also, but since I discovered Topre keyboards I've never returned to Cherries. A lot of people do prefer Cherries over Topre though.

 

I hope I won't fall in love with Japanese technology the same way when I'll try Stax headphones, I already have a lot of headphones.


Edited by devouringone3 - 8/2/12 at 4:19am
post #749 of 1600

Haha. That's a very colorful/cheery key set you have there. tongue_smile.gif

I didn't know that Topre made a 30g uniform weighted. That sounds pretty awesome, though. Do you think it may be too light, even? Do you mistype more, due to the sensitivity?

post #750 of 1600

Thank you, it's a lot more cheery than it was before :P

1000

 

30 G uniform weighted are not popular in North America, it's indeed the common opinion that they are excessively light, that a slightly lateral stroke of a key will be enough to induce unwanted presses of its neighbor keys, and that if you brush from one key to another you might snag the key in between the two. I tell to people that the first point almost never happen when you're minimally accurate typist, because the keys are not shaped to allow this unless you're obviously pressing some keys largely out of their center. The next point is sadly more true, people often type with their hands too low and often slide their fingers brushing the top of the keys to move around, because lifting them completely requires too much effort with such a typing technique. But it's a stressful and not adequate way of typing, and how secretaries end up with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

 

The correct way of typing is by hovering both hands in an "uncontracted", not "held in place", but just neutrally above the height of the keyboard. Fingers needs to plunge down on the keys, so they come from above, and not sideways. Once you figured out the techniques and start using all 8 fingers you're not doing lateral movements anymore. Only the principal muscles of your fingers are used, and not to move the fingers around, solely for pressing down the keys. It's a very economical, smooth experience, and you can type for a lot longer, and though gaining speed is more difficult to do with 8 fingers and not brushing the keys, because it takes a lot more coordination. Bad techniques requires you to put much strength to control you fingers, and while you become faster by having this much control, the faster you get the more stress you endure. You can become pretty swift with good technique too, but you need to anchor the technique and that alone take a lot of time. I went from 112 WPM to about 75 when I found out and started "hovering" with my usual six fingers, I climbed in the WPM count, but dropped again when I started to use 8 fingers. Now I'm somewhere between 90-95, and all of this happened in the last 5 months approximately, but I'm a slow learned and one could do the seam in as less as one month.

 

Now I love my 30 G, I can type virtually forever and my hands becomes sore like they used to. The keys do not feel light anymore, they feel right. When I revert to my Variable (mostly 45 G keys) I find the keys heavy, but it takes less than an hour add those needed 15 G in my typing; and yeah I'm okay with having flimsy but accurate fingers. Japaneses too, they have 30 G Topre models to choose from, unlike us (Elitekeyboards doesn't stock that weighting). Once you have a good technique it's easier to adapt to any switch, it's just matter of getting a feel for the tactile bump in (example) Browns, and slightly increasing the power of your plunges with (example) Blacks; it's doesn't become difficult or strenuous in any way. Right now, I feel like I could tackle the very hard switches like some ALPS, Cherry Clears, or Buckling Springs and become proficient and be less damaging to my fingers than someone with a technique less good, but with stronger fingers.

 

Ideal, "physician-recommended" technique looks a lot like that, practically:

 

...though she's very much perfect (this is an extreme example, good typing Qwerty looks more like this in reality, but you don't get to see his arms or wrists which is why I didn't picked that example)... and typing Japanese characters, so she's using only half of the keys.

 

Notice the palm lifted up above the keys and how she doesn't do any wrist flexing or move her arms, because her eight fingers have access to all rows of key.

 

 

This is the only "worst" example I could find where you could see both the wrists and arms. The more his palms touch the desk the more the wrist and arms has to do the work... this guy is not so bad, but he should start by lifting his arms and palms. It's subtle but you can see his two wrists flex, his arms move, and his hands being lifted.

 

It's not that clear of a difference, but overall the first typist is a lot smoother, "focused", she gets the gravity to work for her while the second typist constantly fight against it to lift his fingers to the next key. It's a "jumping" motion instead of a "plunge-recover / plunge-recover... " one. His arms, wrists, and even hands plays an active/functional role instead of a neutral/structural one, and the stress and the syndromes comes from the fact that typing requires pronation of the hands, which is unnatural from the start, so in the long run you gain a lot if your arms "float" instead of twist, reach, flex, etc. Going from 6 to 8 fingers also considerably reduces the distance your fingers needs to do (by many kilometers, if you can believe that).


Edited by devouringone3 - 8/3/12 at 12:47am
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