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Quest for Holy Grail of gaming sound! - Page 13

post #181 of 238
Thread Starter 

Asking which of these headphones(dt880, dt990, HD800 or any such headphones) is better for gaming is like asking which of these cars Aston Martin DB9, Porsche Carrera GT, or Lamborgini Gallardo can get you faster to the store 50m away to buy groceries for dinner. Sure, one of those cars will get you 0.2 sec faster then others, but does it really matter? All of those headphones are more than enough for gaming, the question which you will definitely face after you buy them is finding the right amp to drive them. I went through about 9 or 10 different amps/receivers and none had that "sinergy" with headphones and game audio. And it's not just to have enough power to drive hp, but the color of sound , DAC, etc.. I went through yamahas 5.1 receivers, sony amps, little dots, astro mixamp, and harman-kardon stereo amp, and non were good enough for my dt880 pro, dt770 pro and HD800. Finaly, the combination that worked was Essence STX-> old Technics stereo analog amp from 1977. And now I call myself The Bat, 'cause I can hear every goddamn move someone makes on any Bad Company 2 map :)

post #182 of 238

 

I believe my amp (matrix m-stage) has good synergy with HD650 but its the software settings that seem to be the stickingpoint for most people.


What settings do you use in game and on the STX . I normally used Hifi mode ingame and 6 chanel source  to Heaphone with DH on on the DX CP but since finding the BC2 Launcher I set 2 speakers \ High quality audio ie ingame and 2 chanel in and headphone out with dolby headphone on which seems to work better than expected but still not sure which I prefer.

 

AudioHolic and Head-Fi Battlefielders, join me for a round of bad companty two sometime game name BlutoSlice.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audioholic View Post

Asking which of these headphones(dt880, dt990, HD800 or any such headphones) is better for gaming is like asking which of these cars Aston Martin DB9, Porsche Carrera GT, or Lamborgini Gallardo can get you faster to the store 50m away to buy groceries for dinner. Sure, one of those cars will get you 0.2 sec faster then others, but does it really matter? All of those headphones are more than enough for gaming, the question which you will definitely face after you buy them is finding the right amp to drive them. I went through about 9 or 10 different amps/receivers and none had that "sinergy" with headphones and game audio. And it's not just to have enough power to drive hp, but the color of sound , DAC, etc.. I went through yamahas 5.1 receivers, sony amps, little dots, astro mixamp, and harman-kardon stereo amp, and non were good enough for my dt880 pro, dt770 pro and HD800. Finaly, the combination that worked was Essence STX-> old Technics stereo analog amp from 1977. And now I call myself The Bat, 'cause I can hear every goddamn move someone makes on any Bad Company 2 map :)

post #183 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by David.M View Post

 

nice to see you around manax02, I remember when i first joined head-fi, you were the first person to have helped me with something about RCA wiring/spdif connections and some other disclosure and thoughts regarding an old Musiland Monitor Dac that i use to have . Heh, I think i still have that pm somewhere in my inbox

 

 

Hey, thanks! I remember some of that conversation. I see you've got a full rig now, awesome! Hope its treating you well.
 

post #184 of 238

Audioholic, thanks for the awesome writeup! 

 

It seems your analysis infers that open cars are better (for the most part) for gaming. And for me, using VOIP, etc, I just seem to like the open cans better.  Maybe just personal preference.

 

So I have 2 questions:

 

-any idea how the 990 Pro's compare to the 880's?  Seems I can find the 990's for cheaper.

-how does the new Sennheiser PC-360 (open, unlike the closed 350) compare now overall......you or anyone else have a chance to test the 360's?

 

Many thanks.

post #185 of 238
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbob View Post

Audioholic, thanks for the awesome writeup! 

 

It seems your analysis infers that open cars are better (for the most part) for gaming. And for me, using VOIP, etc, I just seem to like the open cans better.  Maybe just personal preference.

 

So I have 2 questions:

 

-any idea how the 990 Pro's compare to the 880's?  Seems I can find the 990's for cheaper.

-how does the new Sennheiser PC-360 (open, unlike the closed 350) compare now overall......you or anyone else have a chance to test the 360's?

 

Many thanks.


Thank you gunnerbob! I haven't heard 990's but any of these high quality headphones will work just fine so get the cheaper ones! The new PC-360 must sound better, 'cause I doubt that they could sound worse than 350 :). I'm actually building our own website, so if you want to be a part of a new game-sound community or have positional audio questions/problems or impressions on any gaming audio setup can post it on www.game-fi.com. Everyone's input is appreciated!


Edited by Audioholic - 8/15/10 at 8:52am
post #186 of 238

I love the work you went through Audioholic, reading it put me on my own journey. :)  I came to almost all the same conclusions that you did except Dolby Headphone vs cmss-3d.  I actually much prefer cmss-3d finding it more accurate.  Almost all of my testing has been in Battlefield Bad Company 2.  Some other notes/tips for guys following this journey:

 

-Comfort is a huge factor.  I tried out the DT770 pro only to find the "pro" clamping force was too tight for me to game for any extended period of time.

 

-cheap x-fi or xonar cards really are a good bang for buck as long as you have the power to drive the phones you want

 

-tube amps are really fun for music listening, but will not make a difference in games

 

-distinguishing one high end sound card from another in only games is more difficult than one would think

 

-the astro mixamp is a good product if you pc and console game, however, it's dolby headphone solution is a far cry from the xonar which lets you tweak room size and sound volume.  it's a bigger deal than you would think.

 

-there are so many headphones out there.... and they are just like speakers. you may love one and your buddy may hate it.  you have to try them.  also, there are so many cans out there some are hard to find info on.  ex: my recently aquired DT 150's rock for gaming, but you don't hear much about them b/c not many gamers have tried them.

 

-finally, for me, cmss-3d is better for positional audio.  i honestly don't think dolby headphone, even tweaked on the essence is all that close.

 

@Audioholic, the new website, you are the man!  great stuff guy.  i will be following for sure! many people are extremely greatful for your time and hard work put into this!

post #187 of 238
Thread Starter 

Thank you for all your support wadec! I really do appreciate it! I'll see you on game-fi then!

post #188 of 238

I tried going back to CMSS-3D Headphone for a while.  It's just not a patch on Dolby Headphone.  CMSS-3D Headphone never really renders anything convincingly in front of me, although I do get an overall reasonable impression of direction.  Dolby Headphone is just so instinctive and immersive in comparison.

 

I still maintain that the combination of X-Fi with an external Dolby Headphone receiver / amp is a better solution than just a Xonar.  Still running my X-Fi Prelude in 4 channel mode (to allow MacroFX and Elevation filter and HRTF direction for speakers) with Victor SU-DH1 in DH1 mode most of the time.  It's an astonishing combination.

 

If only Auzentech or someone could convince Creative to let them implement Dolby Headphone on an X-Fi, while retaining the rest of the X-Fi gaming features...


Edited by ear8dmg - 8/17/10 at 1:25pm
post #189 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ear8dmg View Post

I tried going back to CMSS-3D Headphone for a while.  It's just not a patch on Dolby Headphone.  CMSS-3D Headphone never really renders anything convincingly in front of me, although I do get an overall reasonable impression of direction.  Dolby Headphone is just so instinctive and immersive in comparison.

 

I still maintain that the combination of X-Fi with an external Dolby Headphone receiver / amp is a better solution than just a Xonar.  Still running my X-Fi Prelude in 4 channel mode (to allow MacroFX and Elevation filter and HRTF direction for speakers) with Victor SU-DH1 in DH1 mode most of the time.  It's an astonishing combination.

 

If only Auzentech or someone could convince Creative to let them implement Dolby Headphone on an X-Fi, while retaining the rest of the X-Fi gaming features...


Interesting.  I always found that if I enabled Dolby Headphone on my Astro Mixamp while inputting CMSS-3D from my X-Fi it created one heck of a mess.
 

post #190 of 238
Thread Starter 

The problem with CMSS is that it works by simulating HRTF functions which are different for every human being. If HRTF settings encoded in CMSS are always the same and too different than yours, than positioning will not work like it should. Dolby Headphone does not work on HRTF principles so it's universal for everybody. I think somebody already mentioned that here... 

post #191 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadec22 View Post




Interesting.  I always found that if I enabled Dolby Headphone on my Astro Mixamp while inputting CMSS-3D from my X-Fi it created one heck of a mess.
 


2 channel CMSS-3D Headphone with Dolby Headphone is a mess.  Dolby Headphone only works well with CMSS-3D intended for speakers.  2 channel isn't great but kind of works.  4 Channel or 6 channel works fine.  

 

I do tend to use DH1, which isn't available on the mixamp.  I'm not keen on DH2 and DH3 room reflections when combined with EAX reverberations.  That gets messy.  Still - like audioholic said, CMSS-3D is HTRF based so it will never sound right for some people.


Edited by ear8dmg - 8/20/10 at 3:48pm
post #192 of 238

Thank you for the great post guys

post #193 of 238

Is Asus Xonar Essence STX much better then cheaper cards? Is it much difference if I'm mainly after Dolby headhpone?

post #194 of 238


@Audioholic thanks a million for this thread, its one of the main reasons i've got a pair of DT880's winging their way to me as i type!

I've just completed a new build and until my Auzentech Bravura turns up i'm stuck with the SupremeFX X-Fi that came with my Crosshair

III. It does however give me a chance to familiarize myself with cmss-3d. I generally game with my headphones MDR-XD400 for the time

being and i'm just wondering if someone can suggest cmss-3d settings for BF2:BC...

For example in the Creative Console should i have my speaker configuration set to headphones or 5.1? this seems like a strange question

to me but its just i've seen a ton of threads saying to set this to 5.1 when using cmss and headphones.
 
if i am to set it to 5.1 in the cmss-3d panel whats the difference between Stereo Xpand and Stereo Surround?

and finally in BC2 itself should war tapes still be my source of choice?

i know i could test all these things out myself but while BC2 is on the d/l i figured i could ask you guys :P

post #195 of 238

I could repeat what psone just posted...Thanks to this thread (and some others) I decided to get myself some DT880 for X-Mas. They are manufactured probably right now :)

I'm really looking forward to them after trying a pair this weekend (and some DT990 as well). I'll post my impressions when I got them...Thanks to everybody who contributed here and especially to Audioholic.

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