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Paulson Goldman Fraud Case

post #1 of 45
4/16/10 at 5:57pm
Thread Starter 
I wonder if SEC is just craving a fine out of their billion dollar profit or are they determined to send someone to prison because I very much prefer the later.

Any lawyers care to comment?
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post #2 of 45
4/16/10 at 8:21pm
i'm sure goldman is not happy with their lawyers.
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post #3 of 45
4/16/10 at 8:36pm
The current administration is in bed with Goldman, just like the previous one was, but the SEC is independent, and probably feels the need to redeem itself after two decades asleep at the switch.

That said, prosecuting white-collar crime is very difficult and expensive, and anyone going after such an influential firm, not to mention one that can afford legions of slimeball attorneys, will wait until they have an ironclad case to take to court. It doesn't help that many of the FBI's 500 or so pre-9/11 financial crime staffers were reassigned to anti-terrorism duties (tracking the money trail).

Thus the fact this case was filed a mere two years after the misdeeds is quite impressive, and probably just the tip of the iceberg. I believe in the death penalty when applied to corporations, and Goldman Sachs certainly deserves the chop, just as Arthur Andersen did for its part in the Enron scandal, and Ernst & Young ought to for AIG.
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post #4 of 45
4/16/10 at 8:45pm
Marketwatch posters on the subject have the day traders take on what is at issue, a complete mistrust in the market place itself , not only the over 9 trillion loss (or in part, gained somewhere by some) but that the financial crisis was engineered ! Without trust in the markets and regulatory oversight with consequence (not only civil but criminal law enforcement) then only cash alone is King! These will have killed the stock market from keeping prudent investors from trading!
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post #5 of 45
4/16/10 at 9:10pm
Thread Starter 
There seems to be a wide disparity on how GS advise their clients between $20mil net worth clients and $200mil networth clients. I remember when oil hit $120, GS was publishing all these analysis on the 'fundamental' drivers of oil and instructed their arsenal of advisors and derivatives trader to ask their clients put money into their oil products. At exactly the same time though, one of my relative's $300mil+ net worth business customer was told by his GS advisor explicitly to short oil, despite that the official line of GS is to pile money into oil index at that point in time.

I did not quite believe in conspiracy theories and believed that lone ranger GS financial advisor probably advised out of his own judgment against the company outlook. After this news though, I am now more than certain that GS has committed quite alot of fraud without consequences.

Now im wondering if they engineered lehman collaspe on purpose to profit from the shorting of oil contracts as well. I hope pension funds and clients who lost money through the toxic waste they sell can sue GS to bankruptcy.
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post #6 of 45
4/16/10 at 10:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by majid View Post
The current administration is in bed with Goldman, just like the previous one was, but the SEC is independent, and probably feels the need to redeem itself after two decades asleep at the switch.

That said, prosecuting white-collar crime is very difficult and expensive, and anyone going after such an influential firm, not to mention one that can afford legions of slimeball attorneys, will wait until they have an ironclad case to take to court. It doesn't help that many of the FBI's 500 or so pre-9/11 financial crime staffers were reassigned to anti-terrorism duties (tracking the money trail).

Thus the fact this case was filed a mere two years after the misdeeds is quite impressive, and probably just the tip of the iceberg. I believe in the death penalty when applied to corporations, and Goldman Sachs certainly deserves the chop, just as Arthur Andersen did for its part in the Enron scandal, and Ernst & Young ought to for AIG.
I couldn't agree more with everything stated here.
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post #7 of 45
4/17/10 at 7:45am
Hey, come on. Be gentle. Mr. Paulson only personally pocketed a mere 3.7 billion out of the deal. Oh, wait, he's not even being charged....


If it only turns out to be a fine, I certainly hope its more than the massive 17 million Toyota is being fined. 17 million to a major corporation? That's petty cash...
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post #8 of 45
4/17/10 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by majid View Post
The current administration is in bed with Goldman, just like the previous one was, but the SEC is independent, and probably feels the need to redeem itself after two decades asleep at the switch.

That said, prosecuting white-collar crime is very difficult and expensive, and anyone going after such an influential firm, not to mention one that can afford legions of slimeball attorneys, will wait until they have an ironclad case to take to court. It doesn't help that many of the FBI's 500 or so pre-9/11 financial crime staffers were reassigned to anti-terrorism duties (tracking the money trail).

Thus the fact this case was filed a mere two years after the misdeeds is quite impressive, and probably just the tip of the iceberg. I believe in the death penalty when applied to corporations, and Goldman Sachs certainly deserves the chop, just as Arthur Andersen did for its part in the Enron scandal, and Ernst & Young ought to for AIG.
All good people in this world should stop reading/watching the media and start using their heads.

If you have not read this book about history, you should :

Caroll Quigley : Tragedy and Hope

A lot of fog will be lifted from in front of good people eyes who are lulled into believing into "fiction", so that the fraud and robbery can go on ...
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post #9 of 45
4/18/10 at 2:07am
his hedge fund made $15B in one year correctly betting that the housing market would collapse.
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post #10 of 45
4/18/10 at 2:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by majid View Post
That said, prosecuting white-collar crime is very difficult and expensive, and anyone going after such an influential firm, not to mention one that can afford legions of slimeball attorneys, will wait until they have an ironclad case to take to court.
Actually, Goldman can afford real attorneys and does not need to resort to slimeballs.

Goldman will settle with the SEC and life will go on. Too little, too late from the SEC, which should be looking forward, not back. This is not to say that Goldman and Paulson are not despicable; they are. But the damage has been done. SEC needs to focus its limited resources on the next shell game.
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post #11 of 45
4/19/10 at 2:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterlogic View Post
All good people in this world should stop reading/watching the media and start using their heads.

If you have not read this book about history, you should :

Caroll Quigley : Tragedy and Hope

A lot of fog will be lifted from in front of good people eyes who are lulled into believing into "fiction", so that the fraud and robbery can go on ...

the unspoken view ....

I was not previously aware of this book and its companion, The Naked Capitalist

THANK YOU for this tip, waterlogic

oh, and I just ordered this new one, too -- Eaarth, by Bill McKibben -- a truthful view of the natural changes that are coming soon
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post #12 of 45
4/19/10 at 10:18am
Upon election it was "decided" to scale back the offices of the SEC, as a cost cutting measure, you know, smaller government pledge in action; Look it up !

Lookit, over there, a rabbit ...
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post #13 of 45
4/19/10 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen View Post
Upon election it was "decided" to scale back the offices of the SEC, as a cost cutting measure, you know, smaller government pledge in action; Look it up !

Lookit, over there, a rabbit ...
Laz's version: Upon "election" (see note), the incoming administration was instructed by those who had put it into power, to scale back the offices of the SEC, but the SEC decided to show everyone that it had balls after all.

Note: I was going to post one of my finest aphorisms as a comment on the election of 2008, but on reflection, decided that it was probably against forum rules - but this whole post may be, for that matter. Ah well...
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post #14 of 45
4/22/10 at 1:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Monkey View Post
Actually, Goldman can afford real attorneys and does not need to resort to slimeballs.
A willingness to defend clients like Goldman is precisely what makes one a slimeball.
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post #15 of 45
4/22/10 at 1:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by majid View Post
A willingness to defend clients like Goldman is precisely what makes one a slimeball.
Absolute nonsense.
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