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Burson, Meier or SPL Phonitor - Page 2

post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by brat View Post
It's very useful to hear gear for yourself - so many different tastes... everyone must find his own truth
FTFY
post #17 of 29
I didn't compare against the Phonitor or Meier amps, but I've got a review of the HA160 paired with the HD800 up in the amp section if that'll help you make a decision one way or the other. The link's in my signature.
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by brat View Post
The only time I've listened to these amps (a 15-20min. session) it was clearly noticeable that the phonitor have had much wider soundstage, better instrument separation and more control over all frequencies. I'm absolutely shure what I've heard. Maybe it's a question of personal preferences and system synergy.
It's very useful to read forums - so many different tastes... everyone must find his own truth
No offense, but this has nothing to do with different tastes or opinions or system synergys. There's no technical difference between the Auditor and the Phonitor that would explain the kind of difference you heard. Signal paths are shorter in the auditor, measurements slightly better, crosstalk much better. This is also the info i got from one of SPLs engineer responsible for both. By the way both amps react strongly to different sources so if 2 different DAC/CDPs were used, that might explain the difference.
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterlogic View Post
Interesting. I decided to buy V100 only because I felt that it does not colour the music in any way. To my ears Phonitor kind of veils the mids. But is good as I said. Lehmann BCL was ok too, but I found V100 more true to what i expect an amp should do - i.e. nothing if possible just properly feeding enough power to the drivers not letting them down to choke on difficult passages.
Thanks for your interesting reply. In my many many years of head-philia (been here since 2003) and owning way too many different headphones and amps, i think what you're hearing is not the capability to drive the HD800 (which it does very well, but not really better than others) but just a good system synergy (which is a personal thing).
To my ears the HD800 just is a little bit muddy/veiled in the mids. Muddy is probably the wrong word, it's just a combination of a little too much low-mids (2-3dB at 250-400hz) and it could use a tiny bit more presence in the upper mids. This is out of any "neutral" amp like the BCL, Meier Audio amps, SPL and the old lake people amps. The slight coloration of the V100 matches with these minimal "shortcomings" (or just a matter taste), atleast that was my experience.
post #20 of 29
[offtopic]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizkid View Post
No offense, but this has nothing to do with different tastes or opinions or system synergys. There's no technical difference between the Auditor and the Phonitor that would explain the kind of difference you heard. Signal paths are shorter in the auditor, measurements slightly better, crosstalk much better. This is also the info i got from one of SPLs engineer responsible for both. By the way both amps react strongly to different sources so if 2 different DAC/CDPs were used, that might explain the difference.
Very intersting... both amps were fed by one source. But this corroborates the significance of system synergy. With Edition 8 the phonitor sounds much better (and different) to my ears. Obviously the personal taste also matters.
And there is another explanation: actually the headphones were two pairs (E8 serial #1 plugged in the phonitor and E8 serial #2 in the auditor). Maybe a possible difference between them explains the different sound.
[/offtopic]
post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizkid View Post
Thanks for your interesting reply. In my many many years of head-philia (been here since 2003) and owning way too many different headphones and amps, i think what you're hearing is not the capability to drive the HD800 (which it does very well, but not really better than others) but just a good system synergy (which is a personal thing).
To my ears the HD800 just is a little bit muddy/veiled in the mids. Muddy is probably the wrong word, it's just a combination of a little too much low-mids (2-3dB at 250-400hz) and it could use a tiny bit more presence in the upper mids. This is out of any "neutral" amp like the BCL, Meier Audio amps, SPL and the old lake people amps. The slight coloration of the V100 matches with these minimal "shortcomings" (or just a matter taste), atleast that was my experience.
I never favoured listening to headphones. Due to certain change in the patterns of how and when I listen to music the last half a year I decided to purchase good headphones (=that do not colour my music - mostly classical and jazz) Picking the right phones to my liking was relatively quick and easy process resulting in HD 800. Not quite so with amplifing them.
Contrary to my experience with high-end setups where I believe the most important are the speakers (80 %) and the source (15 %) and the least important was the amplifing (5%) in getting good sound, I found that it was different with HD 800. You may call it a matter of subjective taste, but trust me I have a pretty good feeling how things should sound based on vast experience in live classical and jazz concerts.
Picking the right HP amp I auditioned HD 800 mostly using my vinyl setup (Nottingham analogue Hyperspace, DECCA MM and Bedini phono) second came my DENON SACD, DVD-A, CD player and third few different DACs.
I do not use "systeme synergy" blabery expressions as you do, I simply call it either it plays/sounds well or not. And trust me TT setup plays best possible (there maybe few others outthere that can top it but if - by a negligably small margin).
In the end of the day I found that only Violectric V100 let the sound through unaltered (changed in any way).
So, I suspect your "system synergy" mismatch caused what you experienced as colouring with V100, taking personal preferences out of the equation.

Using some quite difficult musical material, again V100 & HD800 were the most satisfying combination.

I hope, you can see now why I recommend the V100 to people looking for a HD 800 amp match that would just properly amplify and not colour/alter the music.
post #22 of 29
I don't just have a pretty good feeling, i actually KNOW how a good jazz or classical recording should sound. Thanks to many hours the last years in some higher-end studios, especially mastering places, and also being there during the recording. I've owned 5-6x headphone amplifiers in recent years and auditioned more than twice as that. So i know pretty well what they do, what they don't, and WHY they do that. Besides that you just repeated yourself. So again: What you are hearing has nothing to do with the V100 "driving" the HD800 "properly". This however doesnt make it a lesser good amp for the HD800.

"a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizkid View Post
I don't just have a pretty good feeling, i actually KNOW how a good jazz or classical recording should sound. Thanks to many hours the last years in some higher-end studios, especially mastering places, and also being there during the recording. I've owned 5-6x headphone amplifiers in recent years and auditioned more than twice as that. So i know pretty well what they do, what they don't, and WHY they do that. Besides that you just repeated yourself. So again: What you are hearing has nothing to do with the V100 "driving" the HD800 "properly". This however doesnt make it a lesser good amp for the HD800.

"a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
In spite of your staggering experience to which I can only bow low, you do not know me to the same extent as I do not know you, nevertheless allow me for an uneducated guess - just a subjective notion about people who talk about music in dB and Hz (s), an unescapable feeling if I may, that trying to describe art in a dry, boring manner, there emerges a gut feeling that such people should not be trusted when they try to convey their impressions, for the notion of self importance prevails and kills dead anything that the other side should receive. Honestly cannot fight it, but I have this feeling about you right now.


"If everything seems to be under control, that is because you are not going fast enough "
M. Andretti (Formula One quote)
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizkid View Post
Also the Auditor has something what i call the "tube mode"... turn the Volume to "0" and change volume before it hits the auditor (digital or analog) otherwise it will be earcrushing loud. This way the Auditor sounds smoother with slightly softened transients similar to tubes. Curiously this doesnt work on the Phonitor.
Is this "where the input signal is led to the output with an unaltered level (unity gain)" (per the Auditor manual)?
post #25 of 29

Bizkid.

 

Could you please explain again the "tubemode" on the Auditor. I dont understand your instruction on "change the volume before it hits the Auditor"?

 

 

 

Thanks

post #26 of 29


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizkid View Post

Thanks for your interesting reply. In my many many years of head-philia (been here since 2003) and owning way too many different headphones and amps, i think what you're hearing is not the capability to drive the HD800 (which it does very well, but not really better than others) but just a good system synergy (which is a personal thing).
To my ears the HD800 just is a little bit muddy/veiled in the mids. Muddy is probably the wrong word, it's just a combination of a little too much low-mids (2-3dB at 250-400hz) and it could use a tiny bit more presence in the upper mids. This is out of any "neutral" amp like the BCL, Meier Audio amps, SPL and the old lake people amps. The slight coloration of the V100 matches with these minimal "shortcomings" (or just a matter taste), atleast that was my experience.


Everything you just said is spot on IME. BTW, the V100, as you suspected, is a colored amp. It can be described as punchy, warm and smooth, with an intimate (but wide) soundstage. It's definitely not for the transparency freaks among us, though its sound signature lends itself well to some headphones like the T1 it seems.

post #27 of 29

I'm in the same interrogations : I have a Isabellina DAC and a SPL Phonitor which I'd like to replace both with the Burson 160 D for convenience.

Is it a good choice with my HD800 ?


Edited by quantx - 10/8/13 at 10:42am
post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by quantx View Post
 

I'm in the same interrogations : I have a Isabellina DAC and a SPL Phonitor which I'd like to replace both with the Burson 160 D for convenience.

Is it a good choice with my HD800 ?

 

Why not the Conductor instead? miles away better than the 160D

post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by formula1 View Post
 

 

Why not the Conductor instead? miles away better than the 160D

Because I have a 160 D on offer for 500.

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