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HD650 or other suggestions?

post #1 of 34
4/12/10 at 6:08pm
Thread Starter 
Sorry but I'm new to the site and it's overwhelming how many choices there are. Ive look over the buyers list but would like a little more input. I currently have HD555's. My budget is around $600-800 total for headphones/dac/amp and i am currently leaning towards HD650. I have no idea what kind of dac/amp I should get.

I have 300gb+ in flac and listen to mainly folk, rock, indie music and some mainstream rap/hiphop. some of my favorite albums are Kid A, neutral milk hotel in the aeroplane over the sea and the zombies' odessey and oracle. I rarely listen to any metal or classical. My computer just using the mobo integrated realtek audio right now. I'm guessing i should get a usb dac/amp + headphones? or should i get a sound card+headphones?

Thanks
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post #2 of 34
4/12/10 at 6:21pm

Skip It...

Skip the HD650, or any of the top Senns... until... you can afford a good source and amp - you won't be happy with them.

Get a low impedance, sensitive set of phones - such as: Grados, Dennons, ATH's - those are all very efficient, and can be driven very well by high current, SS amps in your price range.

You may also want to avoid a USB DAC - few are worth their cost.

Instead get a good CDP - the Marantz SA8001 is... GREAT! It compares favorably with "multi-thousand dollar" sources.

And... something like the Corda Move is a great, low cost, amp, which can drive efficient, low impedance phones.

But... skip the Senns until you can afford a decent source and amp!
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post #3 of 34
4/12/10 at 6:27pm
you don't necessarily have to run your dac from usb, if you have an airport express, or a slingbox or anything that let you stream music wirelessly, you could have a 24bit output from optical or coaxial. im using an airport express with airtunes -> optical -> dac and its working like a charm. sounds great too.
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post #4 of 34
4/12/10 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2
Skip the HD650, or any of the top Senns... until... you can afford a good source and amp - you won't be happy with them.

Get a low impedance, sensitive set of phones - such as: Grados, Dennons, ATH's - those are all very efficient, and can be driven very well by high current, SS amps in your price range.
I agree. I have a pair of Denon D2000's and they run fairly well from just my computer. Though they would no doubt sound better with an amp. For rock Grados are probably your ticket. Denon's also do pretty well with rock but excel with bass heavy music such as electronic and rap/hip-hop. I haven't heard any AT's so I can comment on them.
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post #5 of 34
4/12/10 at 6:38pm
Just to put some contrast into the experience. My first good cans were the HD595 and HD650. I had a great time with the HD650 and a Firestone Fubar III. So though the HD650 scales well and will sound better and better as your gear gets better, I was absolutely in love with them back then. The Corda Cantate should be a nice Amp to go with the HD650. Should have you maxing out on your budget. A Fubar III with power supply should be within your budget. I see that there's now the Fubar IV!!
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post #6 of 34
4/12/10 at 6:58pm
Better advice may come if you let the forum know whether you intend to get out of the audiophile game at the end of these purchases or wish to continue to upgrade your equipment.
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post #7 of 34
4/12/10 at 7:12pm
HD650 is an audiophile level headphone like my K701. It needs a desktop amp to shine. It is one of the best headphone out there. I highly recommend this headphone, too.

P.S. Just save money for a desktop amp that matches HD650. (Please search threads)

bridge8989, welcome to the audiophile world!
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post #8 of 34
4/12/10 at 7:27pm
Assuming you want to eventually build up to a satisfactory set up.

What i started off with was the HD650, and for the a period of time(roughly a quarter) i was listening to the headphone straight out of my laptop. The sound is actually not half bad.

Then i acquired my first Dac, the Keces DA-151 mkII and started listening out of that for another period of time.

Eventually leading to my final piece which is my AMP, the WA6.

The only way this route will work is if you have the patience and self control not to spend your money. The question of how much of an improvement will i hear with my next piece was my incentive. I loved slowly upgrading because it really emphasizes the difference between your past and current set ups. Also another advantage is, you will narrow down the hassle of reselling your equipment for new equipment in the long run.

If you want gear right at this moment with that budget than disregard what i just stated and go with Gradofan2's advice.

EDIT: If you want to go with my route, i can start off by telling you that tube amps pair phenomenally well with the HD600's/650's, and dacs are easy to acquire, i find the Cambridge DacMagic to be the best bang for your buck in the "not so draining of your wallet" category.
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post #9 of 34
4/12/10 at 7:52pm
Thread Starter 
wow thanks for all the quick responses! yea i want to continue upgrading equipment once i get a real job. currently studying at berkeley and making $14 an hour. :[

so it sounds like HD650's might be my best choice. If i go hd650's should i get a sound card or a usb DAC/amp? Seems like usb DAC/amp might be more worth it in the long run. Ive been reading reviews of usb dac/amps in the 200-300$ range ie. hifiman ef2, firestone fubar III, travagan’s white, Little Dot MK III. I really wish I could listen to this stuff before spending so much money on something I only read about haha.

@Gradofan2, I prefer playing music from my computer or at least something with hdd storage. I dont really want to deal with discs. Are usb dac's really not worth the price?
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post #10 of 34
4/12/10 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepsi View Post
Assuming you want to eventually build up to a satisfactory set up.

What i started off with was the HD650, and for the a period of time(roughly a quarter) i was listening to the headphone straight out of my laptop. The sound is actually not half bad.

Then i acquired my first Dac, the Keces DA-151 mkII and started listening out of that for another period of time.

Eventually leading to my final piece which is my AMP, the WA6.

The only way this route will work is if you have the patience and self control not to spend your money. The question of how much of an improvement will i hear with my next piece was my incentive. I loved slowly upgrading because it really emphasizes the difference between your past and current set ups. Also another advantage is, you will narrow down the hassle of reselling your equipment for new equipment in the long run.

If you want gear right at this moment with that budget than disregard what i just stated and go with Gradofan2's advice.

EDIT: If you want to go with my route, i can start off by telling you that tube amps pair phenomenally well with the HD600's/650's, and dacs are easy to acquire, i find the Cambridge DacMagic to be the best bang for your buck in the "not so draining of your wallet" category.
Pepsi, you've got a great advice! This is one of the best advice I've been looking in this hobby. Now, I read it.

I would like to mention again one of your nicest phrases "The only way this route will work is if you have the patience and self control not to spend your money.

I'm with you Pepsi, more than 100% excellent post!!!
Keep this all the way!!!

P.S. I'm sorry for the bold letters, I am just happy with his advice. I seldom make letters bold anyway.
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post #11 of 34
4/13/10 at 5:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bridge8989 View Post
Are usb dac's really not worth the price?
My USB DAC (DacMagic) made the single biggest difference to the sound quality of my setup. Seriously! It improved the amount of detail and provided a more lively sound. The difference wasn't subtle.
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post #12 of 34
4/13/10 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bridge8989 View Post
wow thanks for all the quick responses! yea i want to continue upgrading equipment once i get a real job. currently studying at berkeley and making $14 an hour. :[

so it sounds like HD650's might be my best choice. If i go hd650's should i get a sound card or a usb DAC/amp? Seems like usb DAC/amp might be more worth it in the long run. Ive been reading reviews of usb dac/amps in the 200-300$ range ie. hifiman ef2, firestone fubar III, travagan’s white, Little Dot MK III. I really wish I could listen to this stuff before spending so much money on something I only read about haha.

@Gradofan2, I prefer playing music from my computer or at least something with hdd storage. I dont really want to deal with discs. Are usb dac's really not worth the price?
get a nice dac+amp combo within your budget and enjoy the HD650, later when you upgrade your gear you will appreciate them even more. read some review and ask people about dac/amp combos and choose what seem the best choice for you.
I heard the HD650 from a mid level gear and they sound great,and properly amped to my ears.
IMO there is a difference between sounding better and properly amped. mid level gear will be enough for them and even sound good,but as you get higher in the scale there is no doubt they will sound better, all headphones will.
I also recommend the HD650 as a good audiophile level headphone to start with.
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post #13 of 34
4/13/10 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by moogman View Post
My USB DAC (DacMagic) made the single biggest difference to the sound quality of my setup. Seriously! It improved the amount of detail and provided a more lively sound. The difference wasn't subtle.
And what may those other difference makers be? I find it extremely hard to believe that a moderately priced DAC would make a HUGE difference. The difference provided by amp is clear, but DAC, I´m not buying that. Probably will get a better DAC anyway at some point, but...

If we compare a soundcard´s or receiver´s basic headphone out to a dedicated, high quality headphone amp, of course there will be difference, because headphone amp is specially designed to drive headphones, while the headphone out in other devices is just put there for occasional basic use without further polishing. But a DAC, every DAC is designed to do the same. Of course the quality will vary, but you get the point.
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post #14 of 34
4/13/10 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bridge8989 View Post
Are usb dac's really not worth the price?
USB-based DAC's are fine, but you will find that optical- and especially coaxial-input-based DAC's are generally better. There are many DAC's (DacMagic and iBasso D10 included) that have all of these inputs, so you have several options. But the general belief is that coaxial RCA > optical toslink >> USB in terms of performance.
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post #15 of 34
4/13/10 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtus View Post
And what may those other difference makers be? I find it extremely hard to believe that a moderately priced DAC would make a HUGE difference. The difference provided by amp is clear, but DAC, I´m not buying that. Probably will get a better DAC anyway at some point, but...

If we compare a soundcard´s or receiver´s basic headphone out to a dedicated, high quality headphone amp, of course there will be difference, because headphone amp is specially designed to drive headphones, while the headphone out in other devices is just put there for occasional basic use without further polishing. But a DAC, every DAC is designed to do the same. Of course the quality will vary, but you get the point.
I'm going to somewhat agree with moogman. My usb DAC DacMagic has made a significant improvement in my rig. I have tried several DACs with different amps and the DacMagic is an excellent DAC for it's moderate price. It is certainly better than not having a DAC at all. All the pieces of the puzzle make a difference. Lossless music with a decent DAC, a nice amp, and great headphone will sound much better than if any of the links in the chain are weak or missing.

Peace,
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