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Some of the myths associated with K701/2 - Page 5

post #61 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by wali View Post
^ You can't be serious? Are you saying myths are based on true stories?

Like cables make a sound difference and a crystal ball over the system improves the sound?

... Or Zeus is too busy shooting lightning from the top of Olympus and Poseidon is responsible for hurricanes?

Seriously...
I hesitate to get into this, but here goes:

What makes a story a myth is that the peoples who tell the story (handed down through the culture, etc.) believe it to be true. Very often, what distinguishes a myth from folklore is that somewhere, sometime, the story was based on a truth, but became a "myth" through the elaboration of re-telling over time.

An example in this thread might be, "A K701 has well-defined bass, but does not manufacture it in any way." Through the re-telling and re-counting in numerous Head-Fi comments, this has become the "myth" of "A K701 has bass roll-off."
post #62 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by wali View Post
^ You can't be serious? Are you saying myths are based on true stories?

Like cables make a sound difference and a crystal ball over the system improves the sound?

... Or Zeus is too busy shooting lightning from the top of Olympus and Poseidon is responsible for hurricanes?

Seriously...
The premise that myths are false by definition reflects a superficial understanding and use of that word. Some simple research would reveal to you that myths are deeply textured and nuanced cultural narratives, the truth of which can be nearly impossible to ascertain--myth is comprised of both truth and fiction, often intertwined. Accordingly myths can be both true and false...simultaneously.

And lest you think that myths are solely the province of the ancient Greeks, read some Barthes or similar. We engage in myth all the time here. I think it is particularly noticeable on both sides of the great (I use that word loosely) burn-in and cable debates. Similarly, here, the myth of the bassless 701 is a good example. I've heard this phone dozens of times in all kinds of setups. Most of the time I think it sucks. Its anemic bass compared to other mid-to-high end phones is startling to me. But I have heard it sound good, as noted above, out of the big HR amps.

So which is it? Do they lack bass or not? The answer is who the hell knows. Maybe the bass is great, but only with a very certain few amps. Or maybe it does, indeed, suck, but I was in a good mood (read drunk if Tyll was around) each time I heard the 701 out of HR amps. Regardless, I would be inclined to say yes they lack sufficient bass to be fully satisfying, if asked. And there we have a myth. In my perception, the bass of the K701 is anemic. But I also have heard it sound good on a couple of occasions. How do I reconcile these two states? I tend to take the couple of dozen times they've sounded lousy to me and think that's more in line with the "truth." As I tell others that I think the 701 lacks bass, I perpetuate this myth, which has embedded in it both truth and falsehood.

People here like to speak in absolutes. "It has great bass; you just have the wrong amp!" or "cables make a difference, you just can't hear it!" Myths. Opinion as fact. Both true and untrue. Here, it appears that what you really meant instead of "myths" was "falsehoods." If that's the case, then that is what should have been stated. Words are important.

And there is plenty of room for reasonable minds to differ on my interpretation of myth. Lord knows there are plenty of people smarter than me who have made it their job to write about and discuss such things. But that "myth" is a word loaded with cultural and narrative significance that transcends merely whether a myth is true or false cannot reasonably be debated.
post #63 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ypoknons View Post
This Skylab post is informative, hope it helps. I'm trying my best to understand the technical aspects, and it embarrasses me how much science I've lost in the short years since I left high school.
The linked-to post is another example of what I'm talking about with respect to myth.
post #64 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Monkey View Post
The linked-to post is another example of what I'm talking about with respect to myth.
For my part, I do my best to quote my sources of information and reasoning when they are not my own. Hopefully it makes things a bit easier for people and prevents distortion on my part, or at least make things transparent enough for people to see what basis my opinions have and whether that is adequate. Of course, it's really not a good substitute for a better informed personal opinion, but it is the most I can do in a field that's not my specialty.
post #65 of 164
Wonder why AKG won't make K701 "B version", sth similair to Ultrasone's HFI680 vs HFI780. I think the sale rates would increase a lot.
post #66 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by VALIENTE View Post
Myth: K701 sounds bad without amp.

Answer: K701 sounds nice even without an amp. I plugged it to CD Walkman. It sounds great/even greater than my Grado SR60.
I agree! I am waiting for my amp to arrive but have been listening right from the itouch. To read comments here anyone would think that the 701's sound like the second coming of hell used in such a way! I must admit, though the volume is at 3/4 they do not sound terrible, in fact very pleasent indeed! I am wondering what the extra power will do as if it improves upon what I have listend to so far I will be very happy and it will be a nice accompliment to my Stax set up!
post #67 of 164
So.. which cables do you guys think are the best for the k701 ?

Moon Audio Black Dragon Cable ?
ALO SxC ?
post #68 of 164
Lets call in the...

post #69 of 164
Concerning the sensitivity of the K701 and V6, isn't the K701's sensitivity at 105dB/V while the V6 is at 106dB/mW?
post #70 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ypoknons View Post
For my part, I do my best to quote my sources of information and reasoning when they are not my own. Hopefully it makes things a bit easier for people and prevents distortion on my part, or at least make things transparent enough for people to see what basis my opinions have and whether that is adequate. Of course, it's really not a good substitute for a better informed personal opinion, but it is the most I can do in a field that's not my specialty.
I think that's a good practice, and I applaud it. More folks should do the same. My main point was that the post to which you linked is a prime example of another topic steeped in myth: tubes v. solid state.
post #71 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorafenik View Post
Wonder why AKG won't make K701 "B version", sth similair to Ultrasone's HFI680 vs HFI780. I think the sale rates would increase a lot.
The K-271MKll are in some ways similar to the HFI models, smaller sound stage and better isolation.
post #72 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by wali View Post
^ You can't be serious? Are you saying myths are based on true stories?

Seriously...
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmathis View Post
Lets call in the...
I'm not saying anything, just reporting the facts as Wikipedia presents them.

But thanks for sharing your opinions...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Junliang View Post
So.. which cables do you guys think are the best for the k701 ?

Moon Audio Black Dragon Cable ?
ALO SxC ?
Mine have their silver dragon cable dual-terminated, and I like them a lot but that's how they came as I am the second owner so I have nothing to compare the cable with. But I have had the thought before that certain cable upgrades may account for some of the polarizing opinions regarding the K701s.
post #73 of 164
I dare you to post it 1 more time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krmathis View Post
Lets call in the...

Quote:
Originally Posted by krmathis View Post
Something for these guys maybe? he he

post #74 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Monkey View Post
The linked-to post is another example of what I'm talking about with respect to myth.
There is nothing mythical about about a vacuum tube being a more ideal voltage source and a solid state device being a more ideal current source. Here we are talking about the devices themselves. I discussed this topic with amp designer Frank Van Alstine once. Here is his treatise on the topic (quoted from his website):

Quote:
Vacuum tubes are great at manipulating voltages-you can play with 200+ volt signals where transistors would go up in smoke and flames. So, we use vacuum tubes for all voltage manipulations. Vacuum tubes, however, cannot drive difficult loads. They have very limited output current and get in big trouble trying to drive feedback loops, stray internal capacitances, and connection cables. So, we don't let our tubes see any loads at all. They operate in an idealized mode amplifying voltages only.
That does NOT necessarily mean that low impedance headphones (which, if we hold sensitivity as a constant) will SOUND better with a SS amp than a tube amp - unless we know more about the circuit of the amp in question, we cannot determine anything. I said that in my post as well. And it's certainly possible to design a SS amp that will swing a lot of voltage, although typically this will require a lot of output devices.

I'd like to hear your comment on EXACTLY what about my post you felt was a "myth", as opposed to being a simplified (as I said) description of the differences between tubes and SS devices. I don't claim to be the most knowledgeable person on earth on this topic by any stretch, but I don't think there was anything inaccurate about what I said.

I apologize for the off-topic post.
post #75 of 164
Well, yes, the AKG K701 DOES have sub bass rolloff.



The third line from the left is around 60 Hz = the threshold for sub-bass. The other three are far from bass monsters, they are have rather a balanced bass. People needs to heard a greater amount of headphones if you think the K701 has bass quantity.
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