Montreal SSI meet impressions

Any pictures or further impressions to share?
That always help getting the grasp of a meeting.

I’d also like to thank Papomaster for making the event happen and thank the other members for doing the PR job (Presently42) and bringing their stuff.

My listening time was also too brief, but my biggest surprise was hearing the pair of HE-5 sent to Fulcrum Audio by Fang and amped by the EF-5. It sounded noticeably different (and better) than my pair which is part of the first batch: the sound was tighter, clearer and seemed faster. I did not notice a bigger bass, but the overall sound was more enjoyable nonetheless. If I could make an analogy, it sounded as a HD650 on speed and steroid, or the sweetness of the HD650 mixed with the quickness, forwardness and clarity of the HeAudio Jade. I don’t know to what extent the difference between the two pairs was caused by the more suitable amp (ef-5), the source/cable or if it was the new HE-5LE.. But as soon as the new HE-5LE model is getting released I will find out.

Another other enjoyable setup was the HD650 with the 2A3 Antique Sound Lab amp: nice SET sweetness that made me regrets selling my pair.

I finally had the opportunity to listen to the HD800 and it sounded great on all setups (Burson 160, Grace M902). I preferred it to the T1, which sounded a bit flat and lifeless on the Lehmann amp. At least the T1 sounds better on my 2A3 tube setup... but for now I don’t think it’s worth 1000$. The HD800 has a really smooth and liquid sound signature, with more bass than I was expecting. I am curious to know if Pompom & Co noticed a difference between the single-ended and balanced HD800 when amped by the Pheonix?

I wish I could have taken the time to fit the universal JH13 in my ear, but I quit after 3-4 attempts, without being able to comment on the sound.

Thanks again to all for making the whole thing happen; I hope I can contribute the next time.

Thanks to those who set up this meet and especially those who did all the PR and invested a substantial amount of your time on these 3 days ! That's what I would call devotion.

I didn't have a chance to listen to many set up, especially since I haven't been able to come on sunday, but my highlights were :
- the HE5... really good cans !
- the raysonic player... I played my own cd on my own rig... it made quite a difference ! really good.
- the HD800... on my own rig... a disapointment. Sure the bass is incredible, especially its depth, the treble is ultra refined, but I don't know... it doesn't make it for me. Maybe too cold or something.
- the JH13... I haven't been able to get a good seal... I guess, because I didn't have the wow factor.

A suggestion for next year. Get a big Head-Fi banner !

Well, firstly, even if I was only there for a few hours on sunday, I had the time to appreciate the kindness of fellow HFiers and the goodness that they brought.

The room was actually not as nice as last year IMO, the round table was perfect and the ''real'' walls helped in keeping the place silent, it was hard to evaluate the cans.

Nonetheless, I got a good grasp of everything I wanted to audition.

These impressions are purely subjective and with setups that used different sources/amps...

Here's the rundown :

HD800

I wouldn't define these as reference cans but more as a microscopic sound laboratory inserted into a pre-defined soundstage. What I mean by is that whatever recording is on, there's always a sense of being in a chamber of some kind, I had this feeling on every songs I heard, I guess that's about sound placement perspective. Having said that, that's pretty much the only thing annoying me, well maybe the slightly forward upper treble which was quite refined but nerve racking IMO.

I can't really comment further as I've only listened to them for 5-10 minutes, they're probably one of the most detailed cans out there with the K1000 & O2 Mk1 but at the simple cost of losing a coherent recording dependent soundstage representation of the instruments, tone was slightly off for me, lacking some naturalism.

That was on the Raysonic CD128 > ASL Twin Head 2A3 (Prototype version?!) OTL output setup.

T1

I was quite surprised by the T1 given I had no expectations at all about them.
There's not much to say about them cause I've only listened to 1 song. That was about enough to give me a general idea, they are definitively colored but not in a bad way, they possess the ability to convey the fine textures/tonal colors of the instruments without introducing much peaks in the frequency response. The soundstage was weird though, it was distant and intimate at the same time, lacked some extreme proper stereo separation or blackness between notes.

I liked it more than the HD800 only because they weren't build to impress you at the first seconds so I bet they would be awesome for long listening sessions, comfort and sound wise. The HD800 has more potential though.

That was on a Random transport > Random old school Dac from the 90's > Lehmann Black Cube Linear setup.

HE-5

This one was easily the biggest surprise of the meet by far !! Tight effortless sound for a decent price. Very similar to some Stax stats but at the same time being more organic sounding but never overly warm. Comfort was another thing though, lacking in the upper-ear/temper area. I was convinced in a matter of minutes, these cans, with a few minor mods, would be real sleepers IMO.

That was on a Head-direct EF-5 > Head-direct HE-5 setup.

More to come! [...]

My 2 cents. And the photos I took.

Hey I would like to thank Papomaster for organizing a good meet again. This year expanded upon last years success by virtue of being open for all three days. Presently42 and Papomaster were there on all three and perhaps one of the Matts? I did think of taking photos, a few at the beginning before many people showed and at the end when Papomaster came to turn on the vinyl. Picasweb is running super slow right now, here is link in case it works for you folk. Picasa Web Albums - Bikeboy999 - SON HI FI 201..
Picasa Web Albums - Bikeboy999 - SON HI FI 201...


By the way part of measuring our success is the Senn manager for Canada swapped out a pair of 650s to give us the hd800 for our room. And the manager/importer for Grado Canada told us next year we get our pick of the headphones. If we keep this up we can make a CAN CanJam. :-) Next year we should approach RSA, Meier etc..

A lot of non-headphone users came through and saw things like the JH13s for portable use all the way to the modded HD800s connected via separate XLR cables to a headphone amp.

My impressions, I could not stop talking about the cans owned by Papomaster, just ask Presently42 cause he heard me. :-) My son and myself took a quick tour of the show, and were most impressed by our setup. We actually spoke to the vistors and encouraged them to check out what we and VTSkier had on our side of the room. Looking forward to CanJam to see if we can get more stuff in our room next year from suppliers/builders. Please pass on any ideas of who I should engage in Chicago.

B

Impressions

First of all, big thanks to everyone who showed up this weekend, especially David (presently42) who helped a lot with the booth and entertaining people throughout the three days.

My second thanks go to fulcrum audio who were really nice during the whole show and let us play with the he-5, ef-5 and burson ha-160 as much as we wanted.

Finally, I'd like to thank the Sennheiser rep who lent us a pair of hd-800 for the week-end. This was a clear highlight of the show and was praised by every visitor (and us of course!), especially friday and sunday when we didn't have another pair to demonstrate.

Here is the secret I've kept until the meet: the mystery cartridge on my mmf-5 is a clearaudio aurum beta s, which is their third best wood MM cart (just below the virtuoso and maestro). 725USD retail right now.

Now, some impressions:

Beyer T1: Felt really nice, but they were in the loudest part of the room, with people chatting all the time so I couldn't have a good impression. However, they had a kind of "growing" factor with sweet timbres and overall smoothness that could make them real keepers over a longer period of time, as opposed to hd800.

Now, Hd800... I have pretty mixed impressions about those. From a technical point of view, they are absolutely flawless: quick, precise, tight, detailed, extended, comfortable, well-built. But... every time I put them I liked them less than the previous time. Really, I felt that although they are awesome technical cans, they might be lacking the coherence of some of the lesser pairs we had on hand (think about big JMLabs vs. Tannoy: the latter, although not very technical, achieve a super-coherent sound), and their treble could be razor-sharp on some songs. The biggest turn-off for me was when someone else had exactly my thoughts and said, "Well, you just have not to play certain cds and they sound awesome". When I try new equipment, a good sign is when I find something good on every cd I put, a very bad sign is if I put a new cd and think, "Well, let's try another one, this one isn't so good". Having to choose cds and not beign able to enjoy everything is something I like to avoid as much as possible.

Putting the on the twinhead helped the treble, even though they sounded pretty sharp at times, but I guess the sovtek 2a3s might be rolled to smoother ones like NOS RCA or maybe shuguang black bottles to smoothen everything. In my opinion, high-power tube is the way to go with the hd800 (and tube source might help . Raysonic FTW.)

Also, the behringer DAC that was used sounded quite sharp to me. Very good overall, technically extremely good, but a bit lifeless and sharp, so not a really good compliment to the hd800s.

Hd650: My new love. On previous listens, I've found them slow and wayyyyy too lifeless, but after putting my Twinhead with K701s in OTL mode, I thought, "Hey, these are quite dynamic but too bright to be enjoyable, so I guess 650s might work well instead". And so they did! The more aggressive sound of the 2a3 sovteks I have right now complemented the 650s really well, tightening the bass a lot and giving the treble an extra sparkle. It also had power in spades (the volume was about 1/4 on the knob to achieve ear-splitting levels) and that translated in bigger dynamics as well as better micro-dynamics. These are on my short buy list right now.

K701: Good, but not quite my taste. Even on the burson and loads of power, I kept wanting more richness in dynamics, timbres and textures. Bass surprised me though as I've never had heard them with proper amplification before. Some people reported they were brought to another level on the phoenix but I couldn't hear that combo. Next meet maybe.

HP-2: Still a so-so for me. Detailed, textured, but similar to the k701: I keep looking for more in songs than just loads of details. But I've not heard them properly amped and sourced, and not for a long period of time. These might be growers for me but then again I'd have to have them at home for longer auditions.

Ad2000: I keep going back to these (kept them for more than two years now) even though they lack the technicality of the k701, hd650s, hp-2 and hd800, they have rich timbres, texture in spades and quickness that gets better and better as you reduce ambient noise. I still think no-one here has listened to them to their full potential : they are easily 50% better in a dead quiet room. The deep bass, that can be heard even in a noisy room, really kicks in and blends perfectly with the rest of the spectrum, and the attack and decay become MUCH more natural.

Friday, during one of the quietest moments of the day, there is one guy who walked in the room and after trying the k701s, ad2ks and hd800s, turned around and said, "I like these (k701) and find those amazing (hd800), but these (ad2000) can play music! I feel like I have a live person in front of me." That sums my thoughts about them pretty well.

JH13: My second biggest fail of the week-end. Couldn't listen to them! When I decided to put them, Guillaume had just left with the box. Crap.

Hifiman HE-5: Slight disappointment, but they might just not be my cup of tea. Good bass, detail and soundstage, but they had a kind of pushed low bass and upper treble that bugged me every 10 seconds or so. By then I was listening through the burson and the xindak front end, but the burson sounded really good on the k701, ad2000, who both have treble problems when badly amped so I guess that is inherent to the phones. I guess these may be another pair of growers but I'd need a longer audition, especially at home with two smooth sources (raysonic and music hall mmf-5).

Burson Ha-160: The most polyvalent amplifier I've heard to date. Had loads of power but could still retain the subtle nuances in music with every headphones I've used on them. And for 700$ I think it's a solid buy for people who have multiple headphones and want some quality amplification throughout.

Woo Audio 2: My biggest fail of the weekend by far. This was the one I wanted to listen the most out of the amps at the meet, and I arrive about 5 minutes late saturday and lemat was left with his amp.

Audio-Gd Phoenix: It did sound very good driving the hd800s balanced, but I couldn't listen to it with my source and headphones so I don't have any reference point, except that it might sound a bit harsher (but a lot more precise) than the Twinhead.

More to come soon.

Sorry about that.... I'm sure we will be able to catch up soon. A meet is required to show off the several B22 we have in hand. Presently42, pompom and myself have one.
For the WA2, I know Pompom took the time to listen to it carefully so he may be able to share his impressions

Great meet guys!

Thanks a lot to the organizers.

I finally got to try out the HD800 and the T1. After listening to them for some time, I can now rest assured and say without a doubt that the HD650, K702 and all the other headphones that I previously owned or tried can rest in peace forever.

Also I was quite impressed on how the HD650 sounded on Papomaster's OTL amp. I'm not a big fan of the toobey sound but they had great synergy.

Pompon had a great modded DAC which could bring a level of detail that I had never seen before. The music was so detailed that it surprised me how much sound is recorded in a studio but which is not always audible on a regular rig.
I however don't know if I could listen to it for lengthy periods of time because the sound was a bit harsh.

I asked Mr. Cabasse if he could let me play my music on his speakers but he said that his team had a tight schedule and that they had to pack things right after the event but I did get to have the chance to be alone in a room with my music and some high end Wilson Audio speakers. I was quite impressed by the sound. It's a totally different experience.

As for next year, perhaps we could try to have some official banners or posters from the administartors of Head-Fi in order to make our stand at the SSI more formal.


It was my first meet and I'll gladly attend the next one.

Great moment, great memories and the rest is history...

Keep in mind, when someone tell something about a headphone/amp/source, it's all the setup they listening.
I only judge a setup like a whole unless I took time to put in competition two components.

HD650 : The bad thing with the HD650, they don't sound all the same. I suspect the production having somes deviations and somes and of the HD650 are FAR better than other. Me and my 2 other friends have done the test on the same gear and they don't sound the same. They all have the silver fabric inside.

The 650's on the Woo2/raysonic was VERY good. Was recabled with double helix and defoamed. I found the setup dynamic, pretty detailled, nice wide soundstage for HD650 ;-) and strong and fast bass. I have similar setup at home and never hear another HD650's setup as good. This setup is a good competition to mine ... if not better.

For me, a setup based on a good HD650 it's tap foot, good quality, and forgiving ... When I am listening my HD650, it's not for analytic listening ... it's for enjoy the music.

The 650's balanced on the Phoenix/behringer/stereovox coax was a deception ... I had impression of lifeless... I don't know why ... Balanced HD650 have weight, punch ... Who else heard the HD650 on the Phoenix ? I am wrong ?

HE-5 on the Fulcrom setup : I enjoyed. They was faster, the highs was more defined than the HD650. The bass was strong and fast. I found the tonal balance good. Only the vocal's seem a bit less euphoric than HD650 and not enough detached from the music.
I tried them on my Archos/iBasso D10 ... forgot that! ;-) they too hard to drive to have something special on micro-portable gear. Remember those HE-5 was recabled with unknow cable. So! Nice setup!

T1: On the Leihman + weiss minerva ... Without any reference point, I'm not sure what I'll say. In general, I've liked. They did not appear neutral but not very colorful. We still feel the brilliance specific to all Beyers.I compared with the DT990 and DT880 but the T1 is the best. I'm not sure they "forgive" a bad recording. I actually played a CD that I know well and it was not without blame.
For sure, I want to listen them more to be able to know how they really worth.

Coax: Stereovox (prior version of XV2) vs DB-510:
I own a DB-510 and having the stereovox (loaner). I prefer the Stereovox overall. More space in the layers of the music (more 3d), more details, bass is less predominant and the soundstage is less "front row" than the DB-510. DB-510 seem to me as a wall of sound ... it has a soundstage but it's less apparent than the stereovox. DB-510 give more weight at the music but I don't have the feeling with Stereovox to miss something.
* I made this comparison on a very good stereo system and come to similar conclusions.

Behringer ... In DIYAudio forum, peaple put it against serious DAC and CD Player ... I am glad to see it's world class DAC without the look and the price.
* It's not harsh at all ... it's simply detailled. ;-) (ciselé sans la moindre agressivité).
Bah ok ... to preach for my family ... ;-)
My Behringer have NOTHING to do with stock version. No more opamp in the signal, far better caps, lundhal LL1690 output transformer in full balanced operation. Just don't let be fooled with the small size unit, and the pro design. ;-)
Each time I put the Behringer against another source, it's all time the same thing. It's win on the 3D soundstage, more space between the layers and bring the details from the background and better slam/dynamic. The ability to hear the room (micro details, reverb, echos) come to my attention more easily.


HD800:

With HD650 the band/performer is performing for you.
With HD800 the band/performer is performing for audience and you are in the audience. It's the strength of the HD800 ... you hear where you are.

The shell of the hD800 is designed to not damped the reflexions from the driver iut for using it. When you listening speakers, you have side reflexions, back reflexions ... top and ground reflexions. You not only hear the direct sound from the driver. It's the same thing.

When recording include elements (reverbs, echos, delay, microdetails), they was amplified with the reflexions in the shell. You got this incredible soundstage.
But if the recording is artificial or low quality, you still have the reflexion.

Admitting this fact, when using components that give "front row" presentation, I feel that the music flows over me. Then I found the sound stage less realistic and interesting.

I chose my DAC, coax cable, signal cable in order to get a deep soundstage and be "laid back". Stepping back, all become more natural and everything becomes more natural and consistent. The soundstage become smaller. Listening different styles of music becomes much more accessible to the point where I do not see much use to use my HD650.

Now, first time I heard them in balanced. I can't tell what do the headphone cable, the balanced operation ... but the whole setup is more transparent with more dynamic and more weight. I really enjoyed it! I don't having impression to miss bass and impact. It's not night/day difference for sure, but it's enough to liked them even more!

I noticed a tad of brightness ... but I was listening at incredible level for the show. I don't think it's a problem. If I am worry about it, I can only work on different interconnect ... I was using pure silver as XLR cable (I have less bright XLR cable at home).

JH13 : CRAP! Music in my head! ;-) I will tell the patch was not installed correctly to give them a chance! 8-)

ASL twinhead amp with HD650 ... (short listening) ... one word : tubey ...It's for the pleasure to listen the music ... not for realistic experience. BTW, I found the sound inviting and relaxing. I close my eyes, drink a hot chocolate, put my attention on the vocals, rythm ... That give a different experience from Phoenix + HD800 ... My SinglePower amps are far less tubey ... is-it better ... depend what you looking for.

HB-1 ... fun amp and very cheap price ... but can't put that against other gear like W2, Phoenix, Twinhead ... it's a clear step down.

Must have been a very sophisticated crowd at the Montreal / SSI meet.

I've really enjoyed reading all of the comments.

Very thoughtful and knowledgeable presentations here about equipment that interests me.

Thanks!

more impressions

Here are some more stories that happened during the week-end:

- I spoke to Tash Goka from divertech, importer of Antique SoundLbas in north America, and he told me ASL was working on a new headphone amp using a cut-down version of the Twinhead Mk3's circuit. I would be using 2a3 output tubes, switchable OTL and cost below 1000$. For those interested, he also told me that they had some of the "current" models on the website (which are now out of production) that they want to get rid of. If you are interested, I suggest you send him an e-mail to ask what he has left.

- I also spoke with Samuel Furon from L'Atelier-Audio, who produces speakers using PHY-HP drivers. He his also the canadian importer for Yamamoto, and had a HA-02 headphone amp on display at the SSI. When I asked him if I could use it to demonstrate it with whatever headphones he wanted in his room or ours, he replied, "Well, I can't lend you this one, because it's my demo model. But, if I had known before you guys could demo it I would have brought one more pair. Also, if you want to audition it at home, just call me and we'll work something out."

At that point I had a big smile on my face and told him, "Hey, we're having meets between members...(blablabla, insert mini-meet description here)." He then told me, "Yes, I'd be interested in participating in such a meet if I can (!!) or I could lend you the HA-02 if I can't make it." Nice. I still have to call him for the HA-02 thing...

- Nice work by Bikeboy to introduce us to the Grado guy and make some kind of partnership for next year. I'll call him as well to tell him about our possible future meet. Maybe he'll want to come as well.

Also, I reckon what pompon said about damping reflexions. Those L'Atelier-Audio speakers sounded drop-dead gorgeous, with the most beautiful tone EVER, and the baffles have very minimal resonance damping (they act as resonators, just like a violin's enclosure).

I really enjoyed the meet which made me come back for another day instead of going only once.