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RE1 + Sony S-Master DAP = stunning!

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Thought I'd share this, even though there might not be many folks out there who have both the RE1 and a Sony S-Master based DAP (Sony X or A840, I have the A845).

Anyway, the synergy between these two is simply stunning. The S-Master amp drives the 150Ω RE1 as effortlessly as anything, so there's definitely no need for an external amp. Plus the Sony's EQ (that has subpar quality with lower impedance IEMs) does wonders to the RE1, bringing out a crisp and clear sound signature with no degrading of SQ.

Ok, but let's take one thing at a time, first I recommend doing an easy filter mod on the RE1:

RE1 filter mod:
Disclaimer: I've done this mod long before I got my Sony, so I don't know how the pairing would work with the original RE1s. I suppose it would still sound great, but did not undo my mod to try it.

Here are the instructions for the RE1 treble mod (Kudos to ClieOS):

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
I have a very favorable review of RE1 before, and I commented on the requirement of amp for this little gem to shine. Well, I just accidentally discovered another way of enjoying music on RE1.

The mod is simple: remove the mesh filter (which is glued on the nozzle) carefully. If you didn't damage the mesh you can use it again later (if you did damage the mesh, Head-Direct sells replacements with the big bi-flange bundle. Alternatively, you can just leave it as it is). Now, use a small tweezer and take the foam inside the nozzle out, and place the mesh back.


Before (right) and After (left, with out the mesh)


The foam inside the nozzle, expended.

SQ wise, you will find that the dark and warm sound is gone, replaced by a forward (especially on the vocal region) and pretty detail sound. The bass impact will be roughly the same, as is most of the lower end frequency. The overall volume is also increased, but only by a small margin. The change is best described as switching from a laid back Senn to a forward Grado of the same caliber. Another plus side is the requirement of amping is less important after the mod. Enjoy.

While this mod works definitely as described, I found it made the upper midrange a bit echoey, so I replaced the original filters with a tiny piece of cotton swab (Kudos to RedSky0):







With the cotton you get best of both worlds: smooth sound, no echo and still noticably better treble than with original filters. I recommend this easy mod for the RE1 even if you don't have a Sony X or A840 to pair with.

EQ settings:
Disclaimer: I listen to this setup on low to medium volume (< 20 of 30 on the Sony), so these EQ settings might not be suitable for louder volume.

Anyway, here are the settings: Clearbass +1, EQ 0,0,+2,+3,+3:





Yes, I'm aware it does look weird, but I've been experimenting with this setup for several days now, trying out different EQ settings and musical genres, and the result with the pictured ones is extremely impressive to my ears. IMO it raises the RE1 right up to eye level with my other top-tier IEMs, with tight and punchy low bass like the Hippo VB's, clean and pleasant mids, plus detailed, refined and extended highs. Speaking of extension, the RE1 give a reasonably balanced, true to life response from 20Hz to 16KHz (= limits of my hearing). There is no added sibilance. Soundstage is huge, comparable to the IE8. And most impressive, transparency is just a tad short of the e-Q7's.

But as always, your perception of sound signature might be quite different from mine, so what impresses me may not work for you.

Anyway, I ordered a backup pair of RE1s today, just in case...
post #2 of 18
Thanks for sharing! Yeah, I was also amazed to hear what the RE-1 can do! They have a huge potential...but need a lot to be pushed to their limits! And the Sony S-Master amps are really great!
post #3 of 18
Does the S-master work well with the Ortofons?
post #4 of 18
Wow, great work James. By the way, I am selling my A845 (Japanese version) if anyone is interested. It is now 1,5 weeks old and stunning, just not for me.
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by helljudgement View Post
Does the S-master work well with the Ortofons?
I got my A845 after I lent my Ortofons to dfkt, so I haven't yet been able to try them together.
post #6 of 18
Funny! I have a pair of Ortofons on loan! I'll plug them in and see, but as James knows, my impressions of the A845 aren't spectacular...
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
^ What a coincidence! Looking forward to your impressions...

Yes I know, you are having a hard time with your A845, so just as a note to prospective buyers: judging from your posts compared to my own impressions, I must say you're really, really picky about DAPs!

Having said that, one thing that really puzzles me on the Sony is its EQ. It introduces some sound degradation with my lower impedance IEMs, nothing nasty, but still easy to spot if you're listening closely. Yet with the higher impedance RE1 it works perfectly. If anyone with better technical background than me could explain this, I'd be truly grateful.
post #8 of 18
I'd imagine it is just the load with lowΩ iems, though I do notice even when driving an amp (no load) some dynamics are lost when the EQ is engaged, but not as bad. The A828 doesn't have the same problems, but it is a bit better from the LO, but its HPO is less neutral, though is better under load.

I'd imagine the RE1 to be great with the A845 or any +80Ω earphone as it drives unloaded stuff pretty damn well and a high impedance is often pretty close to no load. I have to finish one review in the next couple of days, then move to the Ortofons.

I AM pretty picky; if you were bored enough, you can trace my infuriation with the D2 back in 2007 to its eventual sale and that was back when the D2 was the mudder's milk. The A845 is simply a step down from the A828 unless paired with an amp or higher Ω iems. I do suggest running the A845 with higher Ω earphones or with an amp. There are differences however from with the Sony A845's HPO to amp versus LOD to amp.
post #9 of 18
Wow, great work
post #10 of 18
Interesting. When I had the RE1, I wasn't that impressed with them at all. I found the treble very recessed and the mids had a strange unnatural coloration to them that I couldn't get over. They just sounded way too warm. Also, the imaging was very poor, very blurry - even worse than on the RE0. Soundstage size was pretty good though and the sound was quite airy, but that didn't help because the imaging was so awful. I tried amping it with my MiniBox E+, and that did clear up the sound a good bit, but still wasn't enough to make me enjoy the RE1. The treble was still lacking and the detail resolution was quite low. Maybe with the foam mod and some EQing I could get them to sound good, but in my opinion a good headphone should sound the way it is supposed to without any equalization.

But anyway, your review is tempting me to give the RE1s another chance. I wanna try defoaming them and pairing them with my AMP3. How do you think they sound with AMP3 BTW James? Is it a good sounding combo to your ears?
post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 
^ I bought the RE1 originally for the AMP3, because I presumed it would be a good pairing. It definitely is, in fact the best IEM pairing I've found so far. But I was having similar issues to yours with the original phones, notably recessed treble and strange mids. Soundstage and airiness were intriguing, so I didn't dismiss them offhand, but no EQ on the AMP3 meant my options were limited.

Then I found ClieOS' treble mod and that already made a great difference, but still the midrange was a bit off and echoey. RedSky0's recommendation to use cotton wool was the final step to make them sound perfectly agreeable with the AMP3 at last. (Though considering your love of the RE0, it's important to note, that even with the filter mod you won't get similar forward highs.)

However, I have to say that the Sony pairing is in its own league. Even though the RE1 sounded already very good with the AMP3, I did not realize their full potential until lately. The S-Master amp drives them even better than the AMP3 and the option to EQ is the icing on the cake.
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
^ I bought the RE1 originally for the AMP3, because I presumed it would be a good pairing. It definitely is, in fact the best IEM pairing I've found so far. But I was having similar issues to yours with the original phones, notably recessed treble and strange mids. Soundstage and airiness were intriguing, so I didn't dismiss them offhand, but no EQ on the AMP3 meant my options were limited.

Then I found ClieOS' treble mod and that already made a great difference, but still the midrange was a bit off and echoey. RedSky0's recommendation to use cotton wool was the final step to make them sound perfectly agreeable with the AMP3 at last. (Though considering your love of the RE0, it's important to note, that even with the filter mod you won't get similar forward highs.)

However, I have to say that the Sony pairing is in its own league. Even though the RE1 sounded already very good with the AMP3, I did not realize their full potential until lately. The S-Master amp drives them even better than the AMP3 and the option to EQ is the icing on the cake.
Thanks a lot for the detailed response James. Very interesting. I knew RE1 had potential. So how would you say defoamed RE1 with some cotton in + AMP3 sounds compared to something like say e-Q7 + Sansa Fuze? Would you consider the RE1 driven by AMP3 a top-tier IEM, or more like mid level IEM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
(Though considering your love of the RE0, it's important to note, that even with the filter mod you won't get similar forward highs.)
Well, that will actually be a good thing, because the RE0 does have a somewhat overly aggressive treble at times. As long as the highs aren't too recessed, I will be OK with that.
post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post
So how would you say defoamed RE1 with some cotton in + AMP3 sounds compared to something like say e-Q7 + Sansa Fuze? Would you consider the RE1 driven by AMP3 a top-tier IEM, or more like mid level IEM?
That's a tough question, because I have both my AMP3 and the Ortofons lend out. But from memory the e-Q7 + Fuze are better, no doubt. But the thing is, something about the sound signature of the AMP3 kept me looking for good matching phones. I even revived my old AT clip ons, hell I even bought some new AT clip ons because they were a good match. But I'm digressing...

I'd recommend the modded RE1 if you're looking for a good sounding IEM with low hiss to pair with your AMP3. I don't think the pairing is really top-tier, but it's the best IEM - AMP3 pairing I know. Plus, if you ever plan to get one of the newer Sonys, you'll have a pairing that's definitely top-tier.
post #14 of 18
I would say that it's quite difficult trying to find the right size for the cotton swab. In my case i wasted about 10 swabs but i still never got the right size. some of it were over muffled while some of them were too small, one small piece dropped into my re1 where i couldnt get it out even:/
I think it's better if you use cotton wool instead
post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
^ That's funny, for me it was the other way round. I tried cotton wool first, but never got two pieces of the same size that fit. After that I turned to cotton swabs and thought it was much easier. Maybe my cotton swabs were different from yours. I guess one just has to keep trying.

BTW, I hope you got that small piece out in the end...
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