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Why Grado is for rock? - Page 4

post #46 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by baka1969 View Post
Not to take this thread too far off topic but I agree with you with progressive bands and the 701. The Moody Blues, Porcupine Tree, Tool, Yes, Jethro Tull, Rush, ELO, you name it. Pink Floyd being the king of prog imho.
I would say that that is due to the fact that prog is all in the details, there's a lot of intricacies in the music that the k701 excels at reproducing truthfully. The HD650 does pretty well ('Awaken' puts me out of my head each time I listen, to the point of visual distortions), but I've always felt that the sound could be bigger. k701, here I come.
post #47 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by logwed View Post
I would say that that is due to the fact that prog is all in the details, there's a lot of intricacies in the music that the k701 excels at reproducing truthfully. The HD650 does pretty well ('Awaken' puts me out of my head each time I listen, to the point of visual distortions), but I've always felt that the sound could be bigger. k701, here I come.
I just happen to be listening to The Incident album with the K701 and agree. As for the sound needing to be bigger, what amp are you using? I added the DPS to the GLite and it added more depth. It makes a difference with prog.

I keep finding that my HF-2 is less picky about amps to sound it's best. I've switched between the iBasso D2+ and GLite and don't find as big a difference as I did with the AKG. I found even less difference between the Micro Amp and GLite with the Grado.

I'll test it out with the MSSH Tube and the GLite when the Millet comes in this coming week. I'm a tube-noob so I'm not totally sure what to expect. Or how it will pair with my Grado. Maybe it'll give rock a more grungy sound? I don't expect the clarity I get with the SS amps I know. I'll post my findings.

Peace
post #48 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by baka1969 View Post
I'll test it out with the MSSH Tube and the GLite when the Millet comes in this coming week. I'm a tube-noob so I'm not totally sure what to expect. Or how it will pair with my Grado. Maybe it'll give rock a more grungy sound? I don't expect the clarity I get with the SS amps I know. I'll post my findings.
I'll be looking forward to this, as I'm considering the opposite type move.
post #49 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by baka1969 View Post
I just happen to be listening to The Incident album with the K701 and agree. As for the sound needing to be bigger, what amp are you using? I added the DPS to the GLite and it added more depth. It makes a difference with prog.
I also have a Gilmore Lite! It's a great little amp, for sure. I wish that I could find a DPS for it, I have a feeling that Justin (thanks, mulveling) would have a huge following if he would re-introduce it as an upgrade. I wonder why he stopped producing it, frankly. I really don't have a hope of finding one used, so I've been looking at DIY options. Do you (or anyone) know if it is the Sigma 11 or 22 that functions with the Glite?
post #50 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by logwed View Post
I also have a Gilmore Lite! It's a great little amp, for sure. I wish that I could find a DPS for it, I have a feeling that Kevin Gilmore would have a huge following if he would re-introduce it as an upgrade. I wonder why he stopped producing it, frankly. I really don't have a hope of finding one used, so I've been looking at DIY options. Do you (or anyone) know if it is the Sigma 11 or 22 that functions with the Glite?
Just to clear up a fine point here - Kevin Gilmore doesn't build amps to sell. He's designed many excellent amp circuits, which companies (including Headamp - run by Justin Wilson) implement/build and sell for a profit. Kevin doesn't take fees or make any money from this.

As for Headamp, their old Gilmore Reference (mine was single-ended, not balanced) is easily the finest SS amp I've yet heard. Their old V2 and V2SE were also very, very good for the money IMO, and their newer offerings look even more refined and better built.

As for Grados, I don't think they're very good for rock, in a hi-fi sense
I think they can be very enjoyable for the money, with rock in particular, on a more modest system. For me, they just never scaled enough with more highly resolving gear to make it worthwhile. I listen to mostly vinyl, and most of my rock recordings absolutely DO benefit from greater depth and higher resolving power than the Grados (at least the ones I've tried up to RS1) can offer.

IMO - the Grados sound "fast" because of their big peak in the upper-range - they're not actually fast at all. Their bass sounds "tight" because it rolls off early. Their bass sounds "punchy" because it has a huge bump in the response right before it rolls off sharply

Of course you can drastically modify their balance between bowl/vwap/flat pads, but that doesn't solve the underlying issues. I don't include the older HP1000 in this discussion because I consider that a different beast in a higher plane of existence. This is all just in my experience & opinion
post #51 of 62
I enjoy my RS1 with all kinds of rock and metal, but I can agree that the general sound is more towards the "grunge" sound.
post #52 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by mulveling View Post
Just to clear up a fine point here - Kevin Gilmore doesn't build amps to sell. He's designed many excellent amp circuits, which companies (including Headamp - run by Justin Wilson) implement/build and sell for a profit. Kevin doesn't take fees or make any money from this.

As for Headamp, their old Gilmore Reference (mine was single-ended, not balanced) is easily the finest SS amp I've yet heard. Their old V2 and V2SE were also very, very good for the money IMO, and their newer offerings look even more refined and better built.

As for Grados, I don't think they're very good for rock, in a hi-fi sense
I think they can be very enjoyable for the money, with rock in particular, on a more modest system. For me, they just never scaled enough with more highly resolving gear to make it worthwhile. I listen to mostly vinyl, and most of my rock recordings absolutely DO benefit from greater depth and higher resolving power than the Grados (at least the ones I've tried up to RS1) can offer.

IMO - the Grados sound "fast" because of their big peak in the upper-range - they're not actually fast at all. Their bass sounds "tight" because it rolls off early. Their bass sounds "punchy" because it has a huge bump in the response right before it rolls off sharply

Of course you can drastically modify their balance between bowl/vwap/flat pads, but that doesn't solve the underlying issues. I don't include the older HP1000 in this discussion because I consider that a different beast in a higher plane of existence. This is all just in my experience & opinion
I am becoming a believer in this. Out of the ipod they sound very good. They don't sound a whole lot better on the home rig. Still worth it for electric rock/blues though.
post #53 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by plonter View Post
I enjoy my RS1 with all kinds of rock and metal, but I can agree that the general sound is more towards the "grunge" sound.
This should also heavily favor proper early punk, 'post-punk', and 'no wave'. Joy Division, Gang of Four, the Clash and Mission of Burma all sound fantastic on the Grados/Alessandros that I have tried. All 'gritty, simplified rock', essentially.
post #54 of 62
Upon hearing the RS-1s, I realized how truly horrible modern recordings are. They are 100x worse than 90s recordings that are brickwalled or close to it. I can deal with brickwalls like Helloween's Master of the Rings or Cradle of Filth's Vempire, and somewhat deal with Testament's The Gathering(lots of clipping in this one according to Audacity). But more modern stuff is just impossible to listen to amped, even with SR-60s or Sennheisers I've tried. Good headphones and amps just make it a lot more obvious.

RS-1s aren't fatiguing with old Metal like Death's Leprosy. That is one mega-heavy album. Sometimes I prefer it with the HF2, which doesn't let the music run wild too much.

RS-1s really let the exciting parts peak and spread out. Even something like Olivia Newton John's Physical has a huge energy(original cd pressing, no remasters). Dynamic range is really important to the RS-1 and that's something almost every album made since 1997 lacks.

Senns don't come anywhere near Grado. Total opposite. Everything with Senns sounds way far back, like if I'm 15 rows back at a show. I think that for modern recordings, you're better off buying some kinda discman and using the Koss ksc 35. It's like a much, much less refined RS-1 experience. Big, exciting, and wide, but not hugely refined. A discman can help make those extremely loud albums tolerable. I doubt they have enough fidelity in them to warrant being played on much better.
post #55 of 62
Thread Starter 
Can someone tell me how to identify "bad recording" ie old rock vs modern rock? Obviously my ears are not trained for that yet.
post #56 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateicon View Post
Upon hearing the RS-1s, I realized how truly horrible modern recordings are. They are 100x worse than 90s recordings that are brickwalled or close to it. ... Dynamic range is really important to the RS-1 and that's something almost every album made since 1997 lacks.
Uhhh... I get what you are saying, but you could lay off the hyperbole and your assertions would actually carry some weight. Almost every album since 1997? 100x worse? That's some exasperating, funny talk, there.
post #57 of 62
10,000 words cannot explain my feelings toward the music industry. Such poor quality it seems The 'invention' of MP3s were bad enough, the bloody loudness wars and Apple flooding the market with iPods with the crappy iBuds =/
post #58 of 62
brickwall limiters were invented in 1994, as far as I know. The idea being to cram as much artificial loudness as possible. I recently ripped a whole bunch of cds from various years to the hardrive and looked at the waveforms. Brickwalling is the norm nowadays, and for whatever reason, it's worse now than when it first started(I recommend comparing Testament's The Gathering with their Formation album). Based on my experiences with listening to popular music, 1997 was a turning point in regard to loudness.

Everytime I put on a modern cd, the damn thing ends up being maximized. Doesn't matter what genre, professional or amateur. There may be a rare albums here and there that still have a wide range, like Chinese Democracy, but they must be a needle in the haystack. Apparently Chi Dem's dynamics were so rare that Bob Ludwig pointed it out.

If anyone else here can stomach these maximized, pro tooled to death albums, that's a good thing. I think that those albums are horrible to use for measuring the quality of Grados, amps, sources, or anything else. All one has to do is try listening to a modern brickwalled cd with an amped Grado to see what the problem is.

I like the Grados across several genres of music. Even old, low budget albums can shine where they may not have before.
post #59 of 62

it seem that the people around here are going to get richer or are getting nuts,no offense.

obviously any Stax could bring you in paradise,but ,come on,are you comparing 200$ well-worth rock headphones with a 2000$ "ear-prosthesis"??

 

post #60 of 62

You resurrected a 2 year old thread to say that it was an unfair comparison?

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