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New Hifiman HE-5LE planar magnetic headphone
Feb 18, 2013 at 10:38 AM Post #1,621 of 1,933
The neodymium iron boron magnet that Hifiman adopts for their production lines if I m correct, is 97 % dominated by China.
This magnet is known as a super magnet to keep ortho-planar drive for properly powering with the light weight.

Hifiman competitiveness is largely due to the magnet which is geometrically easy accessible to Hifiman.
It reasonable for them to keep the magnet in comparably large portion for the SQ .
In the same line of reasoning, they try to quit He-4, and he-5le.

There is one way to keep lower power to drive, that is to keep greater magnet flux with respect to lower current.
Likely he500 has more magnet than he-5le for that end. Maybe 100 grams more magnet.
 
Feb 18, 2013 at 10:58 AM Post #1,622 of 1,933
Quote:
joong said:
The neodymium iron boron magnet that Hifiman adopts for their production lines if I m correct, is 97 % dominated by China.
This magnet is known as a super magnet to keep ortho-planar drive for properly powering with the light weight.

Hifiman competitiveness is largely due to the magnet which is geometrically easy accessible to Hifiman.
It reasonable for them to keep the magnet in comparably large portion for the SQ .
In the same line of reasoning, they try to quit He-4, and he-5le.

There is one way to keep lower power to drive, that is to keep greater magnet flux with respect to lower current.
Likely he500 has more magnet than he-5le for that end. Maybe 100 grams more magnet.
Click to expand...

They're just simple bar magnets though, I doubt they are very expensive when overseas companies (e.g. Audeze) commission them. They only really become expensive when you want custom mold magnets made.
 
Quick search on the internet and a bar neodymium magnet about the dimension of what is used in Hifiman HEs is about $3 retail. Wholesale neodymiums go for cents a piece.
 
Feb 18, 2013 at 11:01 AM Post #1,623 of 1,933
I attended Magnetics 13 Orlando conference a week ago.
There is no solution to avoid Chinese route to obtain the super magnet.
All the people like PM motor drive, wind mill, hybrid vehicle, and generally energy converting industry including headphone as well.

I saw there are some 40 vendor booths for displaying magnets and the magnetic circuit etc.
The majority is Chinese vendor.

It is easily predictable that Hifiman dominates the industry.
Because IMO headphone is simple device based on orthogonal principle of two electromagnetic quantities, one of which is a diaphragm that is required to be light enough to keep mechanical resonance minimum or null.

Largely SQ is proportional to amount of magnet if you can keep the diaphragm as light as possible.

Magnet, magnet, and magnets, which is only material that can convert electrical energy to mechanical energy with enough efficiency.
 
Feb 18, 2013 at 11:13 AM Post #1,624 of 1,933
Are the magnets in Hifiman simple ceramic magnet that is known as simple magnet?
Audeze uses Neo?

For Neo magnet, there are different quality one depending on how to make.
For example, sintered one is highest qual, and then one of bonded with organic material.

The lower qual one can be one the larger portion of bonding material with smaller Neo.
Anyway Hifiman tries to keep their advantage due to their easy access to the Neo in china.
 
Feb 18, 2013 at 11:44 AM Post #1,625 of 1,933
Quote:
joong said:
Are the magnets in Hifiman simple ceramic magnet that is known as simple magnet?
Audeze uses Neo?

For Neo magnet, there are different quality one depending on how to make.
For example, sintered one is highest qual, and then one of bonded with organic material.

The lower qual one can be one the larger portion of bonding material with smaller Neo.
Anyway Hifiman tries to keep their advantage due to their easy access to the Neo in china.
Click to expand...

 
And that worked quite well so far. They sell a very competent (with a questionable voicing, though)  planar headphone for just 399 bucks :wink: 
 
Feb 18, 2013 at 12:09 PM Post #1,626 of 1,933
Is it really true that the explosion of head-fi market has occurred recently since 2010?
This is aligned with availibility of Ipod, Ipad, or similar things for to common people widely? 
Could you guys tell me the story?
 
Thanks
 
Feb 18, 2013 at 3:16 PM Post #1,627 of 1,933
Quote:
wje said:
As I wait on my next HE-5LE headphones to arrive, I did pick up a pair of HE-4 headphones -- all minty fresh and still sealed in the box from Justin of HeadAmp on Saturday evening.  The HE-4 headphones come with 2 pair of velour pads and don't even have the pleather pads present.  I'm actually quite happy with this decision by HifiMAN.  One would think that the HE-4, being a headphone with a 1/2 of a magnet structure would somehow be half castrated.  
size]
   However, I can vouch and say that it couldn't be further from the truth.  The HE-4 is quite a performer.  The ladies and their vocals just sound so precious.  The upper-end detail is there, too.  Not to the point of causing fatigue, but just right when it comes to percussion, etc.  The lows and the mids?  Sweet.  Just beautiful.  It's too bad that HifiMAN has ceased production on the HE-4.  I suspect that the amplification demands is what might have been where the HE-4 met its fate.  However, when giving them the right amount of juice, they just shine.  I'm expecting something similar with the HE-5LE as I'm in a better position on this next pair to give them more of what they need than possibly the last time around.  Given the fact that the HE-4 is just slightly less efficient than the HE-5LE makes me confident that the HE-5LE might be quite OK.
 
I suspect this might be my pair of HE-5LEs that could be en-route to me soon.  Just exciting !!
Click to expand...

 
 
Cool Wayne, 
 
I was curious to see if we share some of the same impressions.  Clem and I are somewhat on the same page.  More so than not.  IMO the HE-4s are almost akin to the HE-6, and the HE-5LEs are just about akin to the HE-500s.
 
The main difference to between the 5LEs and the 4s are the mids.  The mids on the 5LEs and the 500s are just lush / smooth / seductive.  Not so on the 4s.  More accurate / correct / detailed.  
 
Also there is the bright vs. dark thing.  While the 4s are on the bright airy side - the 5LEs are on the darkish side.  I think the 500s are even more darkish.  The air on the 4s really helps with the detail and instrument separation IMO.  I know Clem doesn't think so
biggrin.gif

 
Feb 18, 2013 at 3:20 PM Post #1,628 of 1,933
Quote:
joong said:
Thanks for the information, I saw the amp just a minute ago, which is a formidable machine.
This 10 watt per channel makes sense to drive the inefficient He-4 in terms of non-orthogonal current and field direction structure.
My he-5le is driven by little dot mkvii+, 1 watt per channel.
As far as loudness goes, it is enough.

10 watt vs 1watt due to the inefficient structure due to loosing its symmetry.
Whenever he-4 is proven good, it is technically proven that he-5le is far better in terms of THD and hence linearity that strongly affects SQ.

BTW, what is the price of SA-31?
Click to expand...

 
 
Yeah, loudness really has nothing to do with it.  That's gain, and just about any amp with a high gain can get the HE-6s / 4s/ 5LEs to get loud.  For me and what I've noticed is what they sound like at your everyday normal listening levels.  
 
Feb 18, 2013 at 4:24 PM Post #1,629 of 1,933
Quote:
preproman said:
 
 
Yeah, loudness really has nothing to do with it.  That's gain, and just about any amp with a high gain can get the HE-6s / 4s/ 5LEs to get loud.  For me and what I've noticed is what they sound like at your everyday normal listening levels.  
Click to expand...

Thanks Preproman for the clarification, however I still try to understand the difference between the loudness and gain.
The definition of loudness seems the sound level upto a point where i would not enjoy but endure.
For example if the sound is good enough, then I will not feel it is really loud even at the higher volume position.
 
The gain is to be somewhat different each other, or at least not proportional entirely to the loudness.
Is this point right?
 
I feel difficult to understand what these headfiers are speaking like grainy, coloured ( seems light spectrum analogy?), or the like, even though I have long been signal processing engineer with some degree of training.
 
Feb 18, 2013 at 4:59 PM Post #1,630 of 1,933
Where can I get help to understand "airy".
What I seem to understand is bright or darkside through analgy of light spectrum or any signal spectrum. But these are also not well defined or understood to me.
If seniors like Preproman writes some dictionary for junior like me, then it will be wonderful.
 
a definition of loudness, airy, and grainy....
All the technology have been evolved when concepts or phenomena have been well defined. I think...
 
Feb 18, 2013 at 5:25 PM Post #1,631 of 1,933
Lots of people like to use the term bright.  Most people will see that as a negative impression.  It's not and has nothing to do with the highs or the treble.  The opposite of Dark..  Dark "can" sometimes mean laid back where airy would mean lively.  Yes the treble presence is usually more energetic again without it being harsh.
 
Loudness is just that.  how loud can you go..  The gain setting will usually determine that.  
When we talk about power IMO it's how an amp - so to speak can control or handle said headphone.  The HE-6 at level 5 out of 10 on amp A can sound overly bright / harsh treble / lack bass.  Just terrible.  Now on an amp with more "quality"  amp B the HE-6 at the same level of 5 out of 10 can sound amazing.  Bass is tight and right, highs are smooth extended, soundstage is wide so on and so on.
 
Grainy to me is not clean.  Not crystal clear,  Not crisp and clean with no caffeine.  I find this on amps as well.  It's just an unclear sound..
 
Feb 18, 2013 at 5:38 PM Post #1,632 of 1,933
Thanks Preproman for lot clarifications.
I like the statement "I'm Just a Solid State Kinda Guy", and I do not believe in the quantity that is not measurable, which is more mentioned among Tube believers than among Solid State ones.
Tube believers are mentioning more frequently not-well defined words, which might generate some argue.
 
Feb 18, 2013 at 6:31 PM Post #1,633 of 1,933
joong said:
Where can I get help to understand "airy".
What I seem to understand is bright or darkside through analgy of light spectrum or any signal spectrum. But these are also not well defined or understood to me.
If seniors like Preproman writes some dictionary for junior like me, then it will be wonderful.

a definition of loudness, airy, and grainy....
All the technology have been evolved when concepts or phenomena have been well defined. I think...
Click to expand...
Airy: Also see Spacious. Music sounds like it is surrounded by a large space full of air. Good reproduction of high-frequencies.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary

I understand it as instrument separation.
 
Feb 18, 2013 at 6:46 PM Post #1,634 of 1,933
Quote:
happy camper said:
Airy: Also see Spacious. Music sounds like it is surrounded by a large space full of air. Good reproduction of high-frequencies.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/220770/describing-sound-a-glossary

I understand it as instrument separation.
Click to expand...

Many thanks, it is really helping and makes sense to read the sound a glossary.
Even though there seems ambiguities inside some definition itself, in general it is wonderful list of definition with consistency.
Thanks Happy Camper.
 
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