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New Hifiman HE-5LE planar magnetic headphone - Page 103

post #1531 of 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Camper View Post

HiFiMan planars are speakers in how they use power. If you've not experienced a speaker amp powering these things, you are missing out on something.

There is nothing special about HiFiMan planars. Voltage, current, and resistance operate with them just like they do with every other headphone and speaker in the world.

Powering a headphone (any headphone) with 300W mono blocks is like commuting to work in a Lamborghini. You'll have tremendous pride of ownership, but you won't get to work any faster.
Edited by palmfish - 8/12/12 at 5:26pm
post #1532 of 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

Not nuts - just right..  Really you just got to hear the difference.  I really think the HE-6s are speakers..

 

beerchug.gif


If you're ever in San Jose, we should have a sleepover so I can hear that myself.


No homo.

post #1533 of 1911

I remember when people made these sort of jokes concerning the K1000, you guys are ACTUALLY doing this for the HE-6 and thats kinda funny to me.

 

Sound is sound, I'm just curious about what it does for the HE-6

post #1534 of 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post


There is nothing special about HiFiMan planars. Voltage, current, and resistance operate with them just like they do with every other headphone and speaker in the world.
Powering a headphone (any headphone) with 300W mono blocks is like commuting to work in a Lamborghini. You'll have tremendous pride of ownership, but you won't get to work any faster.

 

 

I just have one "yes" or "No" question for you...

 

Did you ever hear them?

 

Why do you think dedicated headphone amps have been made "just for the HE-6"  Like the EF-6 @ $1,500 and the Dark Star @ $3,500 just to name a few? Because the normal headphone amp does not do it.  

 

My rig cost me $500 and drives the HE-6 much better IMHO.

 

wink_face.gif


Edited by preproman - 8/13/12 at 12:25am
post #1535 of 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

Your "friend" uses the HE-6 on what?  I can tell you as an owner of the HE-6, Speaker amps are not exaggerated.  I use duel 300 watt mono blocks for my HE-6 rig.  You have to listen to be in the know.  If you haven't heard you have no idea.

 

I have heard them from a power amp 25W/8W and there was no difference besides more volume reserve. I even prefered what I've heard from my headphone amp due to overall sound quality. Same thing with the K1000. At 1W for the HE-6  against 1,4W for the HE-500 available I could easily realise and obtain sound from the HE-6 being in the whole another league than from the HE-500. The latter were possible to be driven to the level of being loud in the whole room while giving no distortion because the numbers describing power in this case were indicating pure and fully available 1W, not at some THD percentage in most cases unlistenable.

post #1536 of 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

I just have one "yes" or "No" question for you...

 

Did you ever hear them?

 

Why do you think dedicated headphone amps have been made "just for the HE-6"  Like the EF-6 @ $1,500 and the Dark Star @ $3,500 just to name a few? Because the normal headphone amp does not do it.  

 

My rig cost me $500 and drives the HE-6 much better IMHO.

 

wink_face.gif

The HE-6 is a headphone, and like all headphones, it's sensitivity is measured in dB/mW. That's "MilliWatts," as in one one-thousandth of one watt. Loudspeakers are measured in dB/W@1M. That's "Watts" as in MilliWatts X 1000. So unless you are setting your headphones down on the table and listening to them from across the room, you don't need dual 300W mono speaker amps to drive them.

 

Normal headphone amps don't power the HE-6 because the HE-6 is a low sensitivity headphone. For example, at 25 ohms and 96 dB sensitivity, my Denon D7000's only need 0.2 Watts to generate 120 dB SPL (That's rock concert loud). By comparison, the HE-6 is a 50 ohm headphone with a low 83.5 dB sensitivity. To reach that same 120 dB SPL, you need 5 Watts. 25 times more power needed! That's a lot more power than most headamps possess, but it's still only 5 Watts.

 

On the other hand, for $500, who cares? Too much power is better than not enough power. If you like your rig...groovy. beyersmile.png


Edited by palmfish - 8/13/12 at 3:50am
post #1537 of 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by majkel View Post

 

I have heard them from a power amp 25W/8W and there was no difference besides more volume reserve. I even prefered what I've heard from my headphone amp due to overall sound quality. Same thing with the K1000. At 1W for the HE-6  against 1,4W for the HE-500 available I could easily realise and obtain sound from the HE-6 being in the whole another league than from the HE-500. The latter were possible to be driven to the level of being loud in the whole room while giving no distortion because the numbers describing power in this case were indicating pure and fully available 1W, not at some THD percentage in most cases unlistenable.

 

So dispite what HiFiMan recommends you say 1 watts is good enough to drive the HE-6?  Well good for you.  I can't argue with what your hearing. 

 

I just hear different.  IMHO 1 watt just won't do it. 

 

Look guys.  I'm not saying the the HE-6 needs 300 watts.  I'm not saying that at all.  What I'm am saying is with these 300 watt mono blocks the HE-6 is sounding better that I ever heard them sound before.  I've heard them on a 4-channel fully balanced B22, the BHA-1, a fully balanced B24 speaker amp, duel 125 watt Rotel mono blocks, a 200 wattt 2 channel speaker amp, and duel 300 watt Emotiva mono blocks.  All high powered stuff.  Once you sit down an compare with different amps side by side with the HE-6 you will see or hear how good this headphone can scale up with higher wattage. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

The HE-6 is a headphone, and like all headphones, it's sensitivity is measured in dB/mW. That's "MilliWatts," as in one one-thousandth of one watt. Loudspeakers are measured in dB/W@1M. That's "Watts" as in MilliWatts X 1000. So unless you are setting your headphones down on the table and listening to them from across the room, you don't need dual 300W mono speaker amps to drive them.

 

Normal headphone amps don't power the HE-6 because the HE-6 is a low sensitivity headphone. For example, at 25 ohms and 96 dB sensitivity, my Denon D7000's only need 0.2 Watts to generate 120 dB SPL (That's rock concert loud). By comparison, the HE-6 is a 50 ohm headphone with a low 83.5 dB sensitivity. To reach that same 120 dB SPL, you need 5 Watts. 25 times more power needed! That's a lot more power than most headamps possess, but it's still only 5 Watts.

 

On the other hand, for $500, who cares? Too much power is better than not enough power. If you like your rig...groovy. beyersmile.png

 

WOW, numbers and theorys.  This "looks and sounds good" 

 

However,  I see my "yes" or "no" question have not been answered.  lol.. 

 

I can only coment on what I have experienced.  Also being played "loud" is not the question when it comes to the HE-6.  I have two amps that can play the HE-6 very loud - B22 and the BHA-1.  They play the HE-6 loud as you want, but still the HE-6 asks for more.  Like Bass, soundstage and Instrament seperations.  I get all this from speaker amps.  While I have not heard the 5 watts EF-6.  I have heard from many of people that have.  All have said the HE-6 needs more power (current / voltage) what ever the case.  These same people use many vintage stereo amps to drive the HE-6.

 

So until the nice looking theory can be put into real life practice.  IMHO the HE-6 respones better out of speker watts with way more watts that 5.

 

Who cares?  Well I guess I do.  I care enough to get the best I can get out the HE-6s.

 

Those who know - know.  Those who don't - don't.

 

Anyway - carry on.  We must not derail this thread.

 

beerchug.gif

post #1538 of 1911

You said your opinion and I said what I hear from my friend. i got HE5LE which are still less power hungry than HE6 and for that model Sonic Pearl amp I mentioned is absolutely enough in terms of SQ not just being loud. What you say about scaling with higher wattage is nonsense for me because it sound like you need to plug it at million watt amp to get absolutely best sound. For me its just all about quality and sufficient enough amp and very good source which make synergy for HP. From your point of view it sounds like you just need only power  and nothing else - quality of amp doesnt matter, just plug it in anything powerful and you got eargasm.

post #1539 of 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by zibra View Post

You said your opinion and I said what I hear from my friend. i got HE5LE which are still less power hungry than HE6 and for that model Sonic Pearl amp I mentioned is absolutely enough in terms of SQ not just being loud. What you say about scaling with higher wattage is nonsense for me because it sound like you need to plug it at million watt amp to get absolutely best sound. For me its just all about quality and sufficient enough amp and very good source which make synergy for HP. From your point of view it sounds like you just need only power  and nothing else - quality of amp doesnt matter, just plug it in anything powerful and you got eargasm.

 

 

Sorry buddy - I can't tell you how much your wrong.  You think scaling is nonsense?  Wow, I think you have a lot to learn.  Did you see where I said about Bass, soundstage and Instrament seperations?  This falls under your SQ department - doesn't it? 

 

I also said that - "I'm not saying that the HE-6 needs 300 watts.  I'm not saying that at all.  What I'm am saying is with these 300 watt mono blocks the HE-6 is sounding better that I ever heard them sound before."   Where is the nonsense? 

 

Those who know - know.  Those who don't - don't

 

Anyway - this is a 5LE thread.

 

Peace Out.. 

 

beerchug.gif

post #1540 of 1911

1W is not enough for what I call power reserve, 5W would be OK and that's why I proposed to that guy to bridge two unused power outputs with reversed phase to get 4x as much power due to doubled voltage swing. What I needed was between 11 and 19 from my amp to have fully satisfactory volume, the upper case on silent recordings with high dynamic range. With modern albums I wouldn't go past 12. And there were no signs of under-powering at this volume. My friend decided not to convert the amplifier into balanced staying with a single watt per channel.

 

5W into 50 ohms means the same as more than 30W for 8 ohms in comparison to speaker amplifiers but you actually need much less current at the same level of output voltage expressed as power on a certain impedance when driving the HiFiMan's. At 5W the HE-6 swallow 316mA both RMS values. I've got reserve of roughly 550mA in a headphone amp and the limit is just the voltage swing which I can double using another circuit for the inverted phase and connect both to the symmetrical output, and then I reach those 120dB SPL instead of 114dB readily available.

post #1541 of 1911
I didn't answer your question because it's irrelevant.

What you and I (believe we) hear out of an amp is purely subjective opinion. Whether that sound is a result of having more power, or damping, or harmonic distortion that sounds pleasing, or placebo, who cares?

If it sounds good to you, then empirical measurements and all that math and physics mumbo jumbo doesn't matter. Just enjoy the music!
Edited by palmfish - 8/13/12 at 9:22am
post #1542 of 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

I didn't answer your question because it's irrelevant.
 

 

May be irrelevant.  It just gives me a better perspective of where you're coming from. 

post #1543 of 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

May be irrelevant.  It just gives me a better perspective of where you're coming from. 

I've been a hi-fi enthusiast since my dad built me my first amp (a tube amp!) in 1971. I've heard and owned many systems since then - from budget to uber elite. I've tasted the snake oil (the silver interconnects, directional power cords, cable lifters, vibration dampening devices, etc.) numerous times and it never did anything for me. I trained as an electronic tech in the Army 28 years ago but I am not a journeyman today - just a hobbyist. That's where I come from. biggrin.gif

Basic objective vs. subjective and law of diminishing returns discussion here (with a little ohms law thrown in). Been there, done that many times - no need to circle the carousel again, it's off topic and will go nowhere.

Seriously, enjoy your rig!
Edited by palmfish - 8/13/12 at 10:45am
post #1544 of 1911

Preproman

 

This is HE5LE thread and guy asked about amp so I answered my opinion REGARDING HE5LE which is still much easier to drive than HE6. I only mentioned friend got HE6 and is still satisfied with same amp. Maybe it could be even better with flagship but my response was about driving HE5LE. Im open to any "experiments" and "lessons" in future. Anyway Im glad you achieved buddha nirvana audio status:)

BTW I saw what you wrote about SQ terms but still it sounds like all, even terrible but powerful amps give you these advantages you mentioned. Im just trying to understand that point of view, not attacking you or defend my opinion - Im not such kind of guy:)


Edited by zibra - 8/13/12 at 11:34am
post #1545 of 1911

Cool.

 

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