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SansaClip+ Rockbox Impressions thread - Page 54

post #796 of 990
After moving, I've since discovered my rockboxed clip+ 4gb. Aside from being shocked at what I listened to 4 years ago, I was equally shocked at how good it still sounded.

I think I need to give it more love.
post #797 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuuketsuki View Post

After moving, I've since discovered my rockboxed clip+ 4gb. Aside from being shocked at what I listened to 4 years ago, I was equally shocked at how good it still sounded.

I think I need to give it more love.

Update the Rockbox....now it has a 10- band EQ and Meier crossfeed. biggrin.gif

post #798 of 990

Meier crossfeed what is this

post #799 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Meier crossfeed what is this

From the Rockbox site, slightly edited for clarity....

Quote:

Features of this crossfeed: 
* frequency neutral 
  
* it adds a delay of approximately 300 microseconds, mimicking the delay between 
  one ear and the other with speakers set up 60 degrees apart 
 
* the crossfeed only affects audio that is actually different between 
  the L and R channel, Jan Meier calls this "natural crossfeed". 
 

* designed by an audio engineer :) 

The Meier crossfeed is  subtle , you'll notice it mainly on audio that has hard-panned instruments. 

post #800 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Meier crossfeed what is this

It's not going to make a significant difference unless you have noticeable L and R separation in your recordings. However it is rather a cool extra and amusing to see how David keeps on KOing other 'Goliath' DAPs.

post #801 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

Meier crossfeed what is this

Essentially it makes listening with headphones feel more like listening to speakers. Some people really dislike headphone listening but even if you're not one of them (I'm not) it is a much more natural seeming experience.

Some (most?) crossfeeds are rather crude and actually cause a tonal change which is why I'd never liked them until I tried the Meier type. The Meier crossfeed doesn't introduce any noticeable tonal change but does give a more "realistic" experience (if reality is considered to be listening to a stereo pair).

The biggest advantages or differences are found when listening to recordings that were made with just two or three microphones, or which have the music on one track and the vocals on the other. These are usually very old recordings. You do get a significant benefit with most stereo recordings but with some you will not notice any change at all while others it's more obvious. It's not an extreme or gimmicky effect at all and not something you notice i.e. it doesn't disturb the listening experience. You'd need to listen with and without to actually know if it was active. Ultimately it makes for a much more realistic soundstage when listening with headphones. It is much better than the SRS WOW type effects which imo have all the subtlety and improving power of an advertising jingle.

It ought not be used with binaural recordings intended to be heard on headphones. It's also a waste of time on mono wink.gif I don't think I've heard a normal stereo track where it causes a problem or colours the sound.

http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/crossfeed.htm

Anyway in Rockbox it's free to try and use a Meier type crossfeed and if you want a headphone amp with the original implementation you can buy one of Mr Meier's well respected originals.
post #802 of 990
In RB'ed Clip+ - EQ setting - Low shelf filter, if I use
cutoff frequency: 100 Hz; Q: 0.7; Gain:  +6.0 db

Will the above setting:
1) equally produces a boost of 6 db to all frequencies below 100 Hz (i.e., +6 db at 20 Hz, + 6 db at 60 Hz and + 6 db at 100 Hz); or 

2) progressively (unequally) boosts frequencies below 100 Hz, with + 6 db at 20 Hz, + 3 db at 60 Hz and + 0 db at 100 Hz?

I would like to give a progressive bass boost to headphones that sound like ATH-AD900 without affecting frequencies above 100 Hz: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHAD900.pdf
I have tried the hardware bass boost of Fiio E17, but don't like it as  its bass boost going beyond 300 Hz: http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000014895351&MenuID=105026002

Please kindly comment, thank you.
post #803 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post

In RB'ed Clip+ - EQ setting - Low shelf filter, if I use
cutoff frequency: 100 Hz; Q: 0.7; Gain:  +6.0 db

Will the above setting:
1) equally produces a boost of 6 db to all frequencies below 100 Hz (i.e., +6 db at 20 Hz, + 6 db at 60 Hz and + 6 db at 100 Hz); or 

2) progressively (unequally) boosts frequencies below 100 Hz, with + 6 db at 20 Hz, + 3 db at 60 Hz and + 0 db at 100 Hz?

I would like to give a progressive bass boost to headphones that sound like ATH-AD900 without affecting frequencies above 100 Hz: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHAD900.pdf
I have tried the hardware bass boost of Fiio E17, but don't like it as  its bass boost going beyond 300 Hz: http://www.fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000014895351&MenuID=105026002

Please kindly comment, thank you.

 

 

Its progressive, with the slope determined by the Q factor so that if Q=1, the full 6dB will have taken effect by 50Hz and then drop off as it approaches 100 Hz.  The definition of Q for shelf filters is always weird, but IIRC a higher Q should give you a more rapid transition as you approach the cutoff frequency in our implementation.


The actual math is here if you're interested:

 

http://www.musicdsp.org/files/Audio-EQ-Cookbook.txt

 

Although its not that easy to follow.  

post #804 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by saratoga View Post


Its progressive, with the slope determined by the Q factor so that if Q=1, the full 6dB will have taken effect by 50Hz and then drop off as it approaches 100 Hz.  The definition of Q for shelf filters is always weird, but IIRC a higher Q should give you a more rapid transition as you approach the cutoff frequency in our implementation.


The actual math is here if you're interested:

http://www.musicdsp.org/files/Audio-EQ-Cookbook.txt

Although its not that easy to follow.  

Thank you Saratoga for your advice. And thank you for making Rockbox one of the best music firmwares.

The web page that you linked to provided me basic idea but got me lost in calculations. Sorry, I lost majority of my Calculus knowledge during my biomedical graduate school.

Please kindly help me out here:
If I want around +3 db at 50-60 Hz and can tolerate +1-1.5 db at 100 Hz, should I use Q = 0.7 or Q = 1? In other words, where are the +3 db and +1 db frequencies, when I use Q = 0.7 vs Q = 1? Thanks so much.
post #805 of 990

the low shelf feature is not progressive.  if you set it at 100hz it will boost everything from 100hz down equally. 

leave it at .7 or it will only be adjusting the frequency of 100hz specifically.  if you read the rockbox manual it explains this feature in detail.  It does not work progressively like all the other eq features in rockbox

post #806 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Br777 View Post

the low shelf feature is not progressive.  if you set it at 100hz it will boost everything from 100hz down equally. 
leave it at .7 or it will only be adjusting the frequency of 100hz specifically.  if you read the rockbox manual it explains this feature in detail.  It does not work progressively like all the other eq features in rockbox

Thanks. I did use Q=0.7 at LS.
But Saratoga of Rockbox said that LS filter IS progressive with a slope (see his comment above). Sorry, I may be missing something here. I did glance through Rockbox manual but did not notice its detail explanation of LS filter (I.e, progressive or not).
post #807 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzffnn View Post


Thanks. I did use Q=0.7 at LS.
But Saratoga of Rockbox said that LS filter IS progressive with a slope (see his comment above). Sorry, I may be missing something here. I did glance through Rockbox manual but did not notice its detail explanation of LS filter (I.e, progressive or not).

 

hmmm.... well i certainly could be wrong... i just reread the manual and it isnt absolutely explicit - it just says "boosts or lowers all frequencies", although the term "shelf"  usually means just that...   not a curve or progressive gain but rather  a straight horizontal gain. 

 

Band 0: Low shelf filter. The low shelf filter boosts or lowers all frequencies below a
certain frequency limit, much as the “bass” control found on ordinary stereo systems does. Adjust the “cutoff” frequency parameter to decide where the shelving
starts to take effect. For example, a cutoff frequency of 50 Hz will adjust only very
low frequencies. A cutoff frequency of 200 Hz, on the other hand, will adjust a
much wider range of bass frequencies. The “gain” parameter controls how much
the loudness of the band is adjusted. Positive numbers make the EQ band louder,
while negative numbers make that EQ band quieter. The “Q” parameter should
always be set to 0.7 for the shelving filters. Higher values will add a small boost
around the cutoff frequency that is almost always undesirable.


Edited by Br777 - 9/2/13 at 8:18pm
post #808 of 990

hey I need to get a new flac player and cant decide between the clip+ and the clip zip. I have heard the clip zip doesnt display track information while playing which is why im not sure about it.... does it  display track info when used w/ rockbox??
 

post #809 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by SansuiAU8500 View Post

hey I need to get a new flac player and cant decide between the clip+ and the clip zip. I have heard the clip zip doesnt display track information while playing which is why im not sure about it.... does it  display track info when used w/ rockbox??
 

It will do just about anything you ask it to with Rockbox. I have two of them, and one of them is over 2 years old and still running strong...Rockboxed since November 2011.smile_phones.gif

post #810 of 990

Cool I bought one and rockboxed it, sounds amazing for $35.

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