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Multi-IEM Review - 352 IEMs compared (Pump Audio Earphones added 04/03/16 p. 1106) - Page 38

post #556 of 16802
Thread Starter 

It's interesting but there's no flex with my Golds - only the Coppers. Same tips and everything. The IE8, Atrios, HJE900s, and Phiaton PS210s also don't flex. Nearly every other dynamic does, though.

post #557 of 16802

I got my C3's today joker.  Oddly, the ear pieces are not big enough for my left ear.  I've always known my left ear canal was bigger, but I could always use the same size tips on both sides.  I found that UE large and med single flange works best.  The C3 stock largest single flange is too small for my left ear (but it can make a good, not perfect, seal with my right ear) so which size shure olive do you think i should get?  Large?  I've had good experiences with comply foam.

post #558 of 16802

What luck i just found a really good seal with my left ear.  Still, anything on those olives?  or any other tips that work well?


Edited by xtasi - 8/3/10 at 5:35pm
post #559 of 16802

Got the RE-ZERO yesterday, purchased off another member on the forum.  I do see you and others comparing the two as being quite a alike still.  While I haven't owned the RE0 for nearly two years, from my memory the RE-ZERO sounds very unlike the RE0 in many ways.  While I get a sense that both are geared towards the same goals, I think the driver and note presentation is a sizable departure.  It's certainly not RE252 different, but the RE-ZERO driver does seem to be a partial departure from the RE0 driver.  One specific repeat I see from the RE0/ZERO line is a very heavily controlled driver is used.  The benefit of this is that they offer some of the cleaner, lowest distortion sound from a dynamic most of us will hear.  It is super clean and also handles complex information really well.  It pretty much isn't allowed to get messy.  There is a trade-off though, and it's one thing I disliked a good bit with the RE0.  The high control comes at the price of limiting how freely the diaphragm moves.  If anything happens, it's done through motor force.  You end up losing some articulation, some dynamic breadth, some sense of effortless energy.  What impact or texture that does show through seems forced.  As well, high control means the low end frequencies end up a bit light.  Even though this is a low ohm version, it still is happy to use up a bit of wattage from my Meier 2Move, more than I'd expect from a driver that's geared to be easy to run.  I do feel it's within a range that is suitable for portable players and a moderate deviation the RE0, but it still shows that the design still requires power to equate to output and also power and output to equate to dynamics and raw energy.  An inverse of this design would be the Denon C700/C751.  The Denon follows the approach of creating a very loose, effortless driver.  Dynamic breadth comes out more effortlessly without needing to be forcefully driven.  Articulation and fine detail show through more readily and in this improved sound stage.  The downside is that the diaphragm is considerably less controlled, and the sound can get a bit distorted or messy.  The low frequency range of the Denon is a good example of what poor control can mean.  Output gets very muddy and incoherent at volume.   The Denon is really good for critical, quiet listening.  The RE0 or RE-ZERO is happier at moderate volume.  I think both of these products highlight the extremes of design while most dynamically driven earphones fall more in between these two.  The RE252 for example is an in between product that offers a more expected presentation.  The RE0/ZERO provides a unique setup that isn't really found in other dynamically driven products.  I know my favoritism lies outside the range of the RE0/ZERO, but I do think the RE-ZERO is a step towards offering more to everyone while retaining that type of package than the RE0.  The dynamics are improved and shows a better sense of subtlety and range.  Sound stage is more specific with a greater sense of a sound existing in a point in space (RE0 was pretty sucky from my recollection).  The tone is more natural or slightly bright at volume and a departure from the slightly dark sense of the RE0.  I always thought there was some harshness in the highs of the RE0 and a slight inability to accurately articulate high frequency information.  I see the RE-ZERO as improved with a more refined albeit maybe not as edgy top end.  Even though my recollection of the RE0 is a couple years tarnished, I do like the direction the RE-ZERO is heading.  I do see great value in the $80/$100 price points of these products.  I do think the RE-ZERO is a step up in terms of mainstream appeal.

 

You know what I'd like to see?  I like the RE-ZERO driver design.  However the major limitation is low frequency "looseness."  I would love to see a dual driver setup like the Radius DDM incorporating a version of the RE-ZERO driver as the mid-high and paired with a large bass driver.  Because of the driver setup, there really is no way to get the presence and fullness on the low end, not even with EQing or an excess of wattage.  The fix is dual drivers.  It's something I'd be curious to see.

post #560 of 16802
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljokerl View Post

It's interesting but there's no flex with my Golds - only the Coppers. Same tips and everything. The IE8, Atrios, HJE900s, and Phiaton PS210s also don't flex. Nearly every other dynamic does, though.


goes to show only a few have good build quality

yes i noticed the pannies dont crackle

also the cx980

post #561 of 16802
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2rooi123 View Post


goes to show only a few have good build quality

yes i noticed the pannies dont crackle

also the cx980


I wouldn't say it is build quality but just how dynamics work. It happens less with more expensive dynamics such as the Coppers but it does happen.

post #562 of 16802
Thread Starter 

Added two more penny-pinchers - the elago E3 and JVC HA-EBX85. Definitely intend to keep my eye on the elago brand as they've got some higher-end products as well.

 


Quote:

Originally Posted by xtasi View Post

I got my C3's today joker.  Oddly, the ear pieces are not big enough for my left ear.  I've always known my left ear canal was bigger, but I could always use the same size tips on both sides.  I found that UE large and med single flange works best.  The C3 stock largest single flange is too small for my left ear (but it can make a good, not perfect, seal with my right ear) so which size shure olive do you think i should get?  Large?  I've had good experiences with comply foam.

 

Medium Olives worked fine for me and foam tips are generally more of a one-size-fits-all solution compared to silicones. L-sized Olives are quite gigantic TBH. If you used regular-size comply foamies, medium Olives should be fine.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw2 View Post

 

You know what I'd like to see?  I like the RE-ZERO driver design.  However the major limitation is low frequency "looseness."  I would love to see a dual driver setup like the Radius DDM incorporating a version of the RE-ZERO driver as the mid-high and paired with a large bass driver.  Because of the driver setup, there really is no way to get the presence and fullness on the low end, not even with EQing or an excess of wattage.  The fix is dual drivers.  It's something I'd be curious to see.


Thanks, appreciate the impressions. Also agree that a dual-driver from head-direct would be something. They've never shrunk away from innovation before so we can all collectively dream...

post #563 of 16802
post #564 of 16802

because they look like black olives

post #565 of 16802

My RE-Zero finally arrived, the day before I'm due to leave the country for a month too. These are sexy little buggers, and smaller than I expected. I once saw someone say about the RE-0 that you don't listen to them, you listen through them. Arguably my previous IEM experience has only been the lowest-end Sennheiser buds available, but these sound at least on par with HD 595 in detail and more transparent. I'm not feeling any bass detail lacking, just a slight lack of fullness on the low end.

I'm also surprised by the soundstage they appear to have, but again that may be just because of lack of previous IEM experience. Overall I'm incredibly happy with them right now and they can only get better with burn-in. Also none of the problems I had with having a cold and blocked sinuses when I first got my 595s. That ruined what should have been a magical moment, but no such annoyance with these. I tried the smaller bi-flange but actually got better bass with the single-flange medium tip.

 

Did anyone try the nozzle foam removal/movement trick on these? Is it necessary? I've seen it for the RE0, but no mention for the Zero.

post #566 of 16802
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Yep, that's them. Model number is always either PA-910 or EABKF1.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoetheArachnid View Post

My RE-Zero finally arrived, the day before I'm due to leave the country for a month too. These are sexy little buggers, and smaller than I expected. I once saw someone say about the RE-0 that you don't listen to them, you listen through them. Arguably my previous IEM experience has only been the lowest-end Sennheiser buds available, but these sound at least on par with HD 595 in detail and more transparent. I'm not feeling any bass detail lacking, just a slight lack of fullness on the low end.

I'm also surprised by the soundstage they appear to have, but again that may be just because of lack of previous IEM experience. Overall I'm incredibly happy with them right now and they can only get better with burn-in. Also none of the problems I had with having a cold and blocked sinuses when I first got my 595s. That ruined what should have been a magical moment, but no such annoyance with these. I tried the smaller bi-flange but actually got better bass with the single-flange medium tip.

 

Did anyone try the nozzle foam removal/movement trick on these? Is it necessary? I've seen it for the RE0, but no mention for the Zero.


Congrats on the earphones - glad you like them. I did not do the foam removal since I didn't like it on the RE0. I have a feeling it would get the treble a little closer to what the RE0 treble sounds like but whether that is desirable is arguable.

post #567 of 16802

Thanks so much joker

 

EDIT:  I noticed that you wrote the preffered tips on the C1&2 are the sony hybrids and i think the pics of the C3 have sony hybrids.  Could they work on the C3?  My bestbuy doesnt carry shure olives but they do carry sony hybrids.


Edited by xtasi - 8/5/10 at 7:51am
post #568 of 16802

Hey, did you ever try the RE-ZERO without the foam?  I really didn't like the RE0 without the foam, but I am finding that the RE-ZERO without is better option.  The sound is just a little more direct, and the treble difference doesn't seem as dramatic as what the RE0 showed.

 

Know of any good tips for an earphone that has a lot of movement?  Right now one weakness I'm seeing from the RE-ZERO is that the driver moves the earphone considerably and pulls your attention to the earphone.  I'm curious if there are options that may isolate the earphone more from the ear.  Right now I'm just using some Comply T-500 tips that do a pretty good job, although they do affect the sound some.  If I had a spare Olive tip to decore I wouldn't mind trying that too.  I'm also running them over the ear to help against their tendency to drop and rest against the ear.

post #569 of 16802
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw2 View Post

Hey, did you ever try the RE-ZERO without the foam?  I really didn't like the RE0 without the foam, but I am finding that the RE-ZERO without is better option.  The sound is just a little more direct, and the treble difference doesn't seem as dramatic as what the RE0 showed.

 

Nope, haven't tried it yet. Like I said two posts above, the RE0 treble became more strident with the foam removed (which was too much for me). Logically,I would expect the treble of the RE-ZERO to do the same but since it is calmer to begin with that would just move it closer to RE0 treble. I'll try it when I have time to see what I can make of it.



Quote:

Originally Posted by mvw2 View Post

 

Know of any good tips for an earphone that has a lot of movement?  Right now one weakness I'm seeing from the RE-ZERO is that the driver moves the earphone considerably and pulls your attention to the earphone.  I'm curious if there are options that may isolate the earphone more from the ear.  Right now I'm just using some Comply T-500 tips that do a pretty good job, although they do affect the sound some.  If I had a spare Olive tip to decore I wouldn't mind trying that too.  I'm also running them over the ear to help against their tendency to drop and rest against the ear.


Over-the-ear is a must for me since IMO the current cable is more microphonic than the cloth cord on my RE0 was. I'm using Meelec short (Sennheiser-style) bi-flanges from the M11+ fit kit. Sound is rather similar to single flanges but the fit is a bit more secure and the isolation is a tad better. I think I still like de-cored Olives best but they're in short supply here.

post #570 of 16802

Yeah, I used the MEElectronic bi-flange tips too, but I'm back to Comply T-500.  The key here for me was to isolate out the vibration of the earphones.  There's three ways to doing this, lock the earphone well to the ear so all you feel is ear vibration (a visceral sense but no noticeable source), decouple it so you feel nothing, or move the resonance frequency out of the bandpass.  I'm not sure if there's a good #1 option for tips other than something very rigid, maybe a custom, but a foam is pretty good about doing #2.  One could probably add mass to the earphone and lower the resonance point to satisfy #3, but how would one do that what just making the earphone annoying to wear due to the weight.

 

I find the microphonics similar to the original RE0 before the cord was changed.  It's a pretty normal amount.  I never expeienced the newer cords.

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