or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Multi-IEM Review - 352 IEMs compared (Pump Audio Earphones added 04/03/16 p. 1106)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Multi-IEM Review - 352 IEMs compared (Pump Audio Earphones added 04/03/16 p. 1106) - Page 35

post #511 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by shane55 View Post




From the looks of things the DBA-02 cable looks similar (but maybe beefier) to the UM2. I like the UM2 for the gym as well, but the E4c cable is great as I use it: Durable, and heavy enough not to get all swinging on me and interfere. That's my main issue with the UM2 at the gym, it's light cable is all over the place...

 

The SE535 cable is marginally microphonic (very dependent on eartips), and a bit thick / stiff for the gym in the long haul.

So far I'm hearing that isolation is not #1 with the M6 (you, Baycode and others). Great for certain things. But at the gym I'm zoning out and really don't want to hear the disco being pumped into the place or the dropped weights or the whirring of the machines. I like it q-u-i-e-t. 

 

shane
 


I guess I see your point here. Something like that doesn't bother me as much but isolation on the DBA-02 is definitely better than the M6 and near one of the best isolation I've had with Shure triple flange tips. I had to adjust a bit to the increased bone conduction when I first got them which was surprising for me. The cable on the DBA-02 is still very light and similar to the Westone ES cable I have except the ES cable is better in certain aspects such as build quality, has a memory wire, right angle plug and the fact that the chin slider actually works as a chin slider.

post #512 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post

I guess I see your point here. Something like that doesn't bother me as much but isolation on the DBA-02 is definitely better than the M6 and near one of the best isolation I've had with Shure triple flange tips. I had to adjust a bit to the increased bone conduction when I first got them which was surprising for me. The cable on the DBA-02 is still very light and similar to the Westone ES cable I have except the ES cable is better in certain aspects such as build quality, has a memory wire, right angle plug and the fact that the chin slider actually works as a chin slider.


Another plus for the DBA-02 !! No memory wire. With glasses, these are a real pain in the arse. The wire on my SE535's are better than the ones on my UE's, but it's still an issue, especially at the gym. Ugh. They make me crazy. Talk about conduction and microphonics! The glasses temple piece tapping the wire section (thicker and more rigid) is enough to... well you get the point.

 

shane
 


Edited by shane55 - 7/29/10 at 11:53am
post #513 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by JxK View Post




I don't even know how you can compare them. They are two vastly different IEMs made for different purposes and catering to opposing tastes. Very much apples and oranges. Both are fruit, and that's where the similarity ends.

 

Pretty easy actually.  The Re0 doesn't seem as well rounded to me, its not as fun or engaging and its a little more expensive, it is 3.5x as hard to drive as the eterna, has a much smaller frequency range, is a tad bit less sensitive at 100db, and i think its output is less than the eterna as well.  

 

so...ya...does that answer? :P   Not saying the re0 sucks or anything, i think its pretty awesome but not really as awesome as the eterna srry, its got less of everything compared to the eterna in terms of stats.  One is kinda airy and neutral and one is warm and engaging.  But, a common trend here on head fi is to place the neutral sets above the warm and colored ones.  I heavily disagree with that.

 


 

post #514 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by swbf2cheater View Post


But, a common trend here on head fi is to place the neutral sets above the warm and colored ones.  I heavily disagree with that.


I disagree with that statement. Both signatures get their love on head-fi but from my experience those that are warm and colored get more. You have the IE8, W3, Coppers, etc that are all pretty warm and many others that get their recognition here. However it's not like the reviews here are the final word here. At the end of the day it is just one person's opinion.

post #515 of 16803



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by swbf2cheater View Post

But, a common trend here on head fi is to place the neutral sets above the warm and colored ones.  I heavily disagree with that.

 


Last thing I want to do is flame or start an argument, but from what I see around here, I'm not so sure that's true. Yes, there is a push for 'neutrality' by many here, but if it were as common a trend as you say there wouldn't be such devotion and admiration for M50, Dennon (2, 5, & 7k), HD 600 - 650, DT990, etc. Yes, it obviously exists... especially when discussing the top tier cans (T1, HD800, LCD-2, etc), and in some IEM threads (like this one?), but I can't honestly say it's more pervasive than the other. 

 

Then again... maybe I just haven't been paying attention.

 

shane
 


Edited by shane55 - 7/29/10 at 12:58pm
post #516 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by swbf2cheater View Post

i definitely do not agree with the Re0 being higher on the list than the Eterna.  


Realize that Joker's ranking does not only include SQ but also things like comfort, price, etc, so it's more of a total package ranking.  I could see ranking vary depending on what traits people seek too.  We all look for different characteristics when we listen to music.  We deem certain traits necessary, some preferred, and some we don't want to hear.  There are inherent capabilities and limitations with each product.  All reviews are also subjective and will always carry some form of bias along with it driven by the individual's own perceptions.  I know when I review and comment on hardware I carry some bias along with it, expectations, preferences, etc.  The RE0 is an earphone I don't particularly like personally, but I see value in the product that would rank it high on the list.  There are some things it can not do well, but it performs a lot of key traits that are important in audio reproduction.  If I were to include the Eterna, I can say I enjoy listening to the Eterna more and the Eterna does certain things better, like sound stage and locational cues.  At the same time I can call it somewhat limited too once I step past the fun factor of this earphone.  It offers less detail than the RE0.  How a product ranks depends upon what traits one values.  Between my own impressions and how Joker has reviewed a range of products, I do feel his comments are pretty close to what I experience as well.  No two people ever match 100% in experience.  Everyone just hears different, has a different range of experiences, and has different personal preferences and interests in sound reproduction.  In some lights I can see why one would rank the Eterna higher, yet in other lights I can see why the RE0 would be ranged higher.  This will always be a subjective matter.  This is also why it's nice for many members on this forum to share their experiences with the products they own and provide their own reviews, comments, and comparisons.  It's really only through group concensus that we really see how products rank in an unbiased light.  We as individuals can only share one viewpoint.  A group can provide scaled perspective.

 

I like the talk about neutrality.  I will say a couple things on the subject.  First, when I review I always EQ everything flat, at least "flat" to my ears.  I agree with you that there is some bias for coloration simply because it favors certain preferences and certain music types.  I tend to try and cut this out.  This way there is no response bias when looking at finer details of a product.  I do see value in more people reviewing products on such a basis, but the comments should include raw characteristics of how the sound is produced as well as the natural coloration of the product and what it means to the end sound.  The downside is it may take hardware people don't have.  For what I use, I use my my Meier 2Move which offers a solid, well respected DAC and a good amount of wattage on tap to not limit an earphone's ability.  I use my PC and some $40 software to run a software loop through a robust EQ just to let me get something functional enough to be useful and without limitations.  I run a pink noise track to which I am very accustomed to working with and EQ a product, typically through several attempts before I reach a solid, repeatable setting.  For someone not used to the process, it would take hours, continuous, to do.  It unfortunately is something I consider beyond what most folks would be willing to endure just to decolor a product for review.  Then there's the review itself which of course takes time, typically weeks of listening and many hours just to start to become aware of all the nuances of the product.  It's even a greater challenge to compare a slew of products together and to scale all aspects.  Then one is to expect to rank them, hopefully with minimal bias.  This is quite a challenge. 

 

Second, more neutral earphones are better in the sense that they work more easily for more people over a broader range of products without the need for EQing.  There is value in that, and this does make the earphone more pleasant to listen to for most people.  One could argue that a non-flat frequency response is a flaw of an earphone, although coloration of sorts are desired traits for people as well as sound engineers developing these products.


Edited by mvw2 - 7/29/10 at 1:36pm
post #517 of 16803

Keep in mind that |Joker| is one who loves neutral sound signatures. I think the rating the Eterna got is pretty impressive for having the opposite sound signature to what he usually likes. I'm not meaning bias, but simply that it's harder to like something that you normally wouldn't like.

An Aussie would hate to be stuck with Marmite, and a Brit would hate to be stuck with Vegemite.

 

As an aside, Vegemite is way better

post #518 of 16803

dang that got a little hot fast didnt it

 

one guy above said that there is a push for neutrals but that its not as common as i said?  lol, im not sure how to argue with that so i wont lol, that is not winnable, its like saying dude your bike is red and then saying red bikes dont exist

 

So, what exactly would be the reason to place the re0 above?  Nostalgia?  A preference? If thats so, thats fine.  But as i said by the pure stats of the Eterna, it should be placed above the re0.   It's got better everything, but again, because the Re0 is more neutral, it would more than likely be placed above the eterna even with the eterna 1upping it on everything but the sound type.  In a point system the eterna would dominate the re0.  In terms of sound quality, both are equals but on different paths.  So...i see no reason to put the re0 above it outside of for the sake of saying "its neutral"

 

 

edit:  for the record, ive only recently started thinking this way.  I am no longer fond of a neutral sound.  I sold off every set i own that is neutral.  After 2 decades of listening mostly to neutral sound, I just cant do it anymore and find myself reverting back to the warm, fuzzy, engaging sounds.  I had the re0 for a long time and when i sit there and use it, I think "wow, thats clear, nice separation!"

 

but as soon as i got my eterna rev1, I kind of flipped out and said "holy crap...this sound is intensely fun and i could use this all day every day"  So yes, my point was it is a pick your soda type thing, its just that one soda is cheaper and has more stuff in it.


Edited by swbf2cheater - 7/29/10 at 1:33pm
post #519 of 16803

I said the same thing when I got my Eterna.  I made a post about it titled "Holy crap..." haha.  I agree, there is much fun factor to the Eterna.  This is why ClieOS ranked them so high.  I feel Joker is seeking more than just enjoyment alone.  It's not that enjoyment isn't bad and heck it's desired, but there should be more to it.  We are describing SQ here and part of that is attempting perfect sound reproduction.  In some ways the enjoyment shouldn't be the earphone.  It should be the music.  The UM3X has a big problem with this.  It is an earphone that can sound quite boring, but it has incredible SQ.  It's a product that doesn't make music sound better.  It just shows you what's there, and many times what's there is boring.  The music might be simple or there is a lot of compression, or the artists really don't put a lot of heart and energy into their work.  You'll be surprised by how much music is pretty ho-hum when you can hear everything very distinctly.  Some earphones have a way of making a lot of music fun regardless of what level of energy, passion, etc. the music carries.  The Eterna could be said to be one like this.  This isn't bad, but it also sheds light that it isn't reproducing the original source so faithfully.  Things get hidden, not played, or overshadowed.  Should we rank it high simply because it's fun or should we look more at how accurately it reproduces the source material?  Which should we rank higher?

 

My words are from a guy who does really like the Eterna and think it's a really great product and a person who's owned the RE0 and disliked it moderately.  Despite owning both and having more enjoyment with the Eterna, I can not tell you the Eterna should be ranked above the RE0.  It just depends on what you seek from the music and how you rank what you seek.  I know why the RE0 is popular.  I know why the Eterna is popular.  I know I prefer listening to the Eterna.  Yet, I know both are flawed in various ways.  To rank them requires me to put a scale on a slew of characteristics and weigh each.  Everything will be biased towards what I value as important, what I value as necessary, what I deem a "flawed" or limited in some way.  That's a tough thing to do.  It's an impossible thing to do without bias and in a way that everyone else sees.
 

post #520 of 16803

yep I think its all been covered on the enterna vs. reo debate, good job guys.... But if this was a game

Ethan would defiantly would of won it.. Breaking out the vegemight and marmite argument.. True gold

post #521 of 16803
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Negakinu View Post

maybe you should make your own list then? 

 

Lol my first thought too.


 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baycode View Post

IjokerI, do you close your eyes while you test these iems? Also are all the room conditions exactly the same while testing different earphones at different times? I appreciate what you're doing so please don't get me wrong, I just wanted to know your test procedure in more detail.

 

I drain my Sansa Fuze completely and charge it again using a solid gold power cord with eight in-line conditioners. My in-house audiologist then proceeds to flush my ears with the tears of the endangered red wolf as I light butterscotch-scented candles and wait for the rooster to crow thrice. So yeah - basically the same conditions every time.

 


 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baycode View Post

I am also planning to buy Fioo E5 amp with RE0 and I have a question, will I be gaining something sonically over the C710's (unamped)? Will the soundstage be wide enough to reach a C710 on the amped RE0? Will the bas be good enough to match the C710's? I have never heard RE0, and I have no opportunity listen them before ordering. So your valuable thaugths are wellcomed.

 

The E5 is not really a proper amp - at least not the sort of amp I was talking about when I wrote the review. You will gain very little over an unamped RE0. As for the C710, it will have a wider soundstage no matter what you do.

 


Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianist View Post
 

Good assessment of the q-jays. I generally agree with everything you say, but I would add that the lower mids are actually excellent on these IEMs - they are very rich, clear and detailed. Listen to some piano - it sounds fantastic on the q-jays! Too bad the upper mids are recessed and the treble is a bit harsh, otherwise these would've been superb.

 

Thanks and yeah - certain instruments sound amazing on the q-JAYS. Piano is one of them. So is the bass guitar. Needless to say I really want to try the x-JAYS now. 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethan961 View Post

Keep in mind that |Joker| is one who loves neutral sound signatures. I think the rating the Eterna got is pretty impressive for having the opposite sound signature to what he usually likes. I'm not meaning bias, but simply that it's harder to like something that you normally wouldn't like.

 

I do *try* to keep my personal biases out of it as much as I can. On my preference scale there is no way the Eterna would rank above the ViSang R03/R02 or the Cyclone PR1 Pro. And I definitely don't agree that the Eterna is more technically capable than the RE0.

post #522 of 16803


I do *try* to keep my personal biases out of it as much as I can. On my preference scale there is no way the Eterna would rank above the ViSang R03/R02 or the Cyclone PR1 Pro. And I definitely don't agree that the Eterna is more technically capable than the RE0.


Got to agree with Joker here, having owned the RE0 and currently owning the Eterna's I would have to say the RE0 were more "technically sound and correct". They seemed to do a more accurate job of portraying what was recorded as opposed to the Eterna's which do a great job of making what was recorded more fun. 

 

On a technical level the RE0's really should be more highly rated HOWEVER on a fun and exciting level I consider the Eterna's to be better. It really depends what you are rating the iem's on in this situation. 

post #523 of 16803

Quick question for Joker and others here.  I'm looking for the best sounding BA IEM's that have straight, deep insertion a la Klipsch and Ety that can use the Klipsch oval gel tips.  Anything better than the ER4S that can use the tips and go deep?

post #524 of 16803

You said BA, but since you tend to prefer dynamics, perhaps you could also give the MC5s a try. They have the same ety isolation but with a dynamic driver that has new patented technology. The bass would be a lot less anemic i'm guessing, but with the same typical ety sound sig.
 

post #525 of 16803

What's the specific goal with deep insertion?  It's something I've stepped away from, so I'm curious why you specifically look for that.  Also, what's specific about the Klipsch gel tips?  Frankly, I don't touch them.  I'm a bigger fan of foam, especially Shure "Olive" foams.

 

I might lean you towards the Klipsch Custom 3 as an option that's like the ER4S in terms of a great sound stage, a thicker, textured note that is unusual for a BA, and is well balanced and extended.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Multi-IEM Review - 352 IEMs compared (Pump Audio Earphones added 04/03/16 p. 1106)