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Multi-IEM Review - 352 IEMs compared (Pump Audio Earphones added 04/03/16 p. 1106) - Page 244

post #3646 of 16803
Originally Posted by edvardd View Post

That would then mean that if some other custom is better, then the Miracle might get a 9 then, and he would have to lower all the scores of the others. Is that what you mean?

 

Yes.. which is what he's been doing and I think it's appropriate.. this is a fluid, subjective, adaptable list.. not something that is set in stone.

 

Originally Posted by cliffroyroycole View Post

Can't his review just be a case of it is what it is, and leave it at that?

 

COSIGNED.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by esanthosh View Post

 

Considering that he just did that after including the Miracle, I don't think he would want to rescale it again tongue.gif

 

Even grades like A+, A would bring back the same debate at one point of time or the other. Numerical scores are better in that they allow a relative comparison between IEMs that fall within the same tier in terms of SQ. No matter whether the score is out of 50 or 100, it would once again lead to the same questions. Personal differences with scores will continue to exist no matter what.

 

The point is read the score to see which tier the IEM falls into, it's peer group, how it's ranked relative to them, BUT read the sound description, see the features (Comfort, Isolation, Build Quality) and decide if it suits you. Without a SQ score, I certainly would be lost as I cannot be expected to read all 130,000+ words to find the right IEM. At least, that's how I use this vast resource.

 

COSIGNED.  I too use the scores in relative terms more than as absolutes.

post #3647 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljokerl View Post

 


Not by default but you can have a Westone socket fitted on request.


 


Don't the UM customs fit the Westone stocket regardless of request or not?

 

post #3648 of 16803

Sorry for my English. I write with a translator.
ljokerl you made ​​a mistake with the change of sound evaluation Radius HP-TWF21.
We had to change from 9.4 to 9.1, but you have changed from 9.4 to 9.0, while other headphones with an estimate of 9.4 did you change the sound to 9.1.
I hope you understand what I mean


Edited by Nemezice - 7/25/11 at 1:09pm
post #3649 of 16803

My thinking on the whole custom IEM topic, as for universals is people should buy for a sound signature they like, not based on scores/rating.  I am working on ratings for all my custom IEMs and the select universals I have recently heard, however the ratings don't tell the whole story, and scoring higher won't make a choice the best for you.

 

In addition, while the universals I have recently heard such as the SM3, EX-1000, CK10, ER4P, W4, GR07 etc. all sound very good in their own right, for me they don't put everything together like many of the custom IEMs I own.  When all of these pieces are put together, regardless of the score (although it will be higher), the realism of the recreation for me will increase dramatically.  And sources are important as well and can take something that is exceptional to an even higher level of exceptional!

 

Ultimately, if you are going to buy one expensive custom IEM I would go for something with the sound signature you like and strengths that are important to you (if you can find that within your price range) which should result in long term enjoyment when listening casually and deep appreciation of the accurate, realistic reproduction that is achieved through technical ability.

post #3650 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post

On a related note, is there a proper naming convention for iem shapes? I usually call them bullet/plug for the straight ones, and the angled over ear ones I tend to call universal, but I don't know if that's right.

 

ljokerl only used the term for a while, but I like "straight barrel IEM" for the generic housings. No idea what to call the over the ear ones blink.gif
 

 

post #3651 of 16803

Joker, can I firstly just say I love your work, and would like to further my appreciation for all your efforts. You have done a massive service to not only Head.Fi'ers but general consumers as well. Your reviews are insightful and valuable.

 

If I have just one complaint, it's that you have perhaps done what many reviewers (and even I myself) do, which is to tend to stick more to the upper echelons of the rating scale. It would have been better if you rated lower on the 10 scale to begin with, to allow more room for the higher end IEM's and headphones. As is, the problem you may face now is all the top end IEM's and customs getting rated 10's. I feel some adjustments may be necessary to balance things out and allow clearer comparisons among users.

 

Other that that, phenomenal work! All credit to you.

post #3652 of 16803
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DervishD View Post

As always, an excellent review.

 

I agree with you: throwing more money not always gets you an equivalent increase in quality, but nonetheless I think that a pair of customs is worth the economical pain. Of course I'm not referring to 1000$ customs, and of course I don't have a pair of customs, but sometimes one spends a quite amazing amount of money looking for the "perfect" phones, so it may make sense to spend it all at once and get customs.

 

When I say "perfect" I don't mean the ultimate sound-miraculous phone, but a phone you really like, with the amount of isolation you want, the comfort you want, the sound signature you want, the looks you want (why not?), etc. Sometimes you're lucky and you find a cheap pair of phones which fulfil your needs, but other times you have to sacrifice one aspect to get other.

 

I can't remember how many times I've lived that. I get a new pair of phones which sound exactly how I want, only to discover they fit like crap and isolation is subpar, or the cable is in auto-tangle mode all the time, or they cause me pain after half an hour, or they slide out of my ears, etc. Customs looks like the way of solving all the issues at once.

 

Still, price is prohibitive for me. But hoping is free ksc75smile.gif

 

Thanks a lot for the review, really, a great work like usual.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heret1c View Post

Seriously, i could not agree more. And another great review / impression, joker. Many thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by UniqueMelody View Post

I am here to pay my gratitude to |joker| for taking the time to write the Miracle review. 

 

~Stephen


Thanks beerchug.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post

My experiences with finding iems that fit me so far have been unsuccessful. I'm wondering if I should just abandon them altogether...

 

The bullet/plug style ones do not fit me at all and just feel awkward. Wearing them cord up is worse than cord down. The angled over-ear type are better, but still a little odd. I've got a Miu Audio MR2 that sort of fits, but it's hard to get a seal and my right side sticks out at a funny angle no matter what I do which makes me think I've got a significant difference in ear shape from one side to the other. I feel like I want a sharper angle to the nozzle for them to fit better as well. Anyone have any ideas for me?

 

On a related note, is there a proper naming convention for iem shapes? I usually call them bullet/plug for the straight ones, and the angled over ear ones I tend to call universal, but I don't know if that's right.


I would say a small angled-nozzle set may be worth trying - something like the Klipsch S4 - as well as foam tips for the sealing issue. The GR07 may be a good option as well. 

 

I usually just call IEMs either "straight barrel" or "ergonomic". 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post

Don't the UM customs fit the Westone stocket regardless of request or not?


I think the order form had 'westone socket' as a separate option. I'll have to check if my Westone cord fits in the recessed socket of the Miracle but the Miracle cable is definitely different from the Westone ES.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemezice View Post

Sorry for my English. I write with a translator.
ljokerl you made ​​a mistake with the change of sound evaluation Radius HP-TWF21.
We had to change from 9.4 to 9.1, but you have changed from 9.4 to 9.0, while other headphones with an estimate of 9.4 did you change the sound to 9.1.
I hope you understand what I mean


Actually not all scores changed by 0.3 points exactly as it is a sliding scale. The sound scores have a math component to them and a couple of IEMs dropped more because of the Miracle upsetting certain sound characteristics. The DDMs had very high presentation scores before and were hurt more than most by the new presentation scaling caused by the Miracle. I actually lowered the weighting of presentation in the overall score to compensate but the DDMs were right on the edge before. 

 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Naim.F.C View Post

Joker, can I firstly just say I love your work, and would like to further my appreciation for all your efforts. You have done a massive service to not only Head.Fi'ers but general consumers as well. Your reviews are insightful and valuable.

 

If I have just one complaint, it's that you have perhaps done what many reviewers (and even I myself) do, which is to tend to stick more to the upper echelons of the rating scale. It would have been better if you rated lower on the 10 scale to begin with, to allow more room for the higher end IEM's and headphones. As is, the problem you may face now is all the top end IEM's and customs getting rated 10's. I feel some adjustments may be necessary to balance things out and allow clearer comparisons among users.

 

Other that that, phenomenal work! All credit to you.


I think the clumping of IEMs around the 7-9 area illustrates diminishing returns and how far you can go with just $50-100 very well. It's actually quite difficult to put things in the lower bit of scale (What exactly is a 0/10? Is that no sound?) Originally the scale was designed to start at around 3/10 but unfortunately I got my hands on earphones that had to be ranked lower. Ultimately, a lot of the more hi-fi mid-level earphones aren't too far off what most consider to be 'top tier' performance and artificially widening the gap there may send the wrong message. 

Regarding the problem of headroom, I said from the start that I would not be making any guesses at the potential performance of gear I have not heard. Therefore, the most proficient earphone I've heard to date will always have the maximum category score.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffroyroycole View Post

Yeah, guess so. You are right. The whole scoring thing makes my head hurt. When I buy IEMs, and I buy a lot, my personal scoring scale is strictly non-numerical.confused.gif If I like it a lot, I keep it. Otherwise I sell it or return it.

 

To me, I guess I am saying, the real value is in the writeup/review, not the score. The nuances of the review are the way to tell if a phone's signature is for me, my personal preference, or not. Sort of what average_joe is saying: Choose on your personal preference (warm, bassy, mid-focused, etc.), not a score per se.

 

The value of the scoring is in providing a consistent, relative ranking. It is certainly qualitative more than quantitative but it puts the write-ups themselves in a bit of context (obviously 'good clarity' for something rated 5/10 overall is different from 'good clarity' for something rated 9.4/10). It also prevents the 'new toy syndrome' since all ratings are given in A:B comparisons with a number of similarly-priced benchmark sets. 


Edited by ljokerl - 7/25/11 at 3:40pm
post #3653 of 16803

Great review as usual and glad to see that you are enjoying your Miracles. They also bring a smile to my face every day. Female vocals just sound heavenly with them.

post #3654 of 16803

Technically, yes, Westone/JH connectors will plug into a UM socket.  The only ones that aren't interchangeable at all are the new UE cables.   


Edited by Anaxilus - 7/25/11 at 4:18pm
post #3655 of 16803


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post




That's what he's been doing for awhile now.  What's the problem w/ that?

 

If people want to buy a Miracle ranked at 10 over other customs he hasn't heard or ranked that's not his problem.  I don't see ranking them 9.8 changing anyone's processes who would behave in such a way.

 

No problem with that
 

 

post #3656 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljokerl View Post


I'll have to ask if all Miracles come with a case now. That was most certainly the only bit that left me disappointed. Personally, I have no use for the fancy display box and ended up using the Earjax hard clamshell case (best one I've found for customs) to lug them around. 


I was impressed they included it, but I still carry mine around in the UE Metallic case, I like the (almost) crushproof metallic case as it just gives me a little more reassurance that I'm not going to damage my CIEM's through accidentally dropping them in the case or sitting on them or something silly like that.

 

post #3657 of 16803

The Miracles come with the blue rectangular case right? I got that with my reshells and I actually like just as much as the UE case. The UE case offers more protection but both are functional imo.

 

Also I can confirm that UM recessed socket fits Westone cable. I might get the UE cable with them but have to see if it fits first. I can't remember if I asked anyone but ljokerl can you check if it fits if you have the new UE cable with a recessed socket? I've changed my portable dap to my sgs so a right angle is now preferred over what I've been using which is a straight neutrik plug. The UM cable I have is pretty handy for that.

post #3658 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post

The Miracles come with the blue rectangular case right? I got that with my reshells and I actually like just as much as the UE case. The UE case offers more protection but both are functional imo.

 

Also I can confirm that UM recessed socket fits Westone cable. I might get the UE cable with them but have to see if it fits first. I can't remember if I asked anyone but ljokerl can you check if it fits if you have the new UE cable with a recessed socket? I've changed my portable dap to my sgs so a right angle is now preferred over what I've been using which is a straight neutrik plug. The UM cable I have is pretty handy for that.


Yup that's the one, and I agree it's definitely functional, I carry my TF-10's around in it now :D I just like the UE case slightly better, but if I didn't have the UE case I would use the UM one without a problem and wouldn't really think about changing either.

 

post #3659 of 16803
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7swell View Post

Great review as usual and glad to see that you are enjoying your Miracles. They also bring a smile to my face every day. Female vocals just sound heavenly with them.


Thanks!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post

The Miracles come with the blue rectangular case right? I got that with my reshells and I actually like just as much as the UE case. The UE case offers more protection but both are functional imo.

 

Also I can confirm that UM recessed socket fits Westone cable. I might get the UE cable with them but have to see if it fits first. I can't remember if I asked anyone but ljokerl can you check if it fits if you have the new UE cable with a recessed socket? I've changed my portable dap to my sgs so a right angle is now preferred over what I've been using which is a straight neutrik plug. The UM cable I have is pretty handy for that.


Mine did not come with a portable case. I double-checked with project86's review and he got the same package:

 

d6b61cdc_DSC_0002.JPG

 

That case is definitely not portable.

 

Don't have a UE custom cable on hand to check if it fits. 

 

post #3660 of 16803
Joker have you posted your Frequency Response chart? If not can you get a good picture of it?
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