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Multi-IEM Review - 352 IEMs compared (Pump Audio Earphones added 04/03/16 p. 1106) - Page 216

post #3226 of 16803

Even with custom tips, you will need to make sure that they are the right length, made from the right material, have the right diameter of the nozzle, etc. I think fit with multi driver IEMs is a much more complex issue that most think.

post #3227 of 16803

I actually find the 'natural' sound of the 530 artificially enhanced, thus rather unnatural to my ears.  An overly liquid, clean and sterile signature for me.  Meh.  Any moments of enjoyment I had w/ the 530 seemed more attributable to psychoacoustic adjustment IME.  It's a phone w/ a distinct signature that you either like or not, just like any other phone.  It's no holy grail.

 

Let's also not bring EQ into the conversation otherwise we might as well throw the whole thread out and start over.

post #3228 of 16803


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljokerl View Post

I may have to get a pair of custom tips for each of the 200. Who knows what I've missed. 



that would be a pain to do all 200 reviews again.....good luck doing that joker. But first, can you do the UM miracle review before the redo of the 200 IEMs you have already done? I'd much rather hear about the UM miracle than have to hear people complaining about you getting the sound signature wrong. Go figure, it's bound to happen when you compare so many IEMs that people love

post #3229 of 16803

Re: SE530's:  Clean and sterile?  Seriously?  They sound quite warm out of the box and even after any kind of break-in even without any EQ'ing.   I can certainly agree they sound unnatural whether they sound sterile to you or warm to me.  And don't kid yourself about using EQ on a DAP, I bet most HF members use one so it shouldn't be ignored.   Depending on the DAP, an EQ can certainly make a headphone/IEM sound radically different and not always for the worse.

post #3230 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljokerl View Post

I may have to get a pair of custom tips for each of the 200. Who knows what I've missed. 

 

I thought that would be sufficient until....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

Even with custom tips, you will need to make sure that they are the right length, made from the right material, have the right diameter of the nozzle, etc. I think fit with multi driver IEMs is a much more complex issue that most think.

 

rolleyes.gif

 

Hope you can post the next two reviews sooner. Otherwise, the way this thread is going, I may start doubting all the reviews wink.gif

post #3231 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloco View Post

Re: SE530's:  Clean and sterile?  Seriously?  They sound quite warm out of the box and even after any kind of break-in even without any EQ'ing.   I can certainly agree they sound unnatural whether they sound sterile to you or warm to me.  And don't kid yourself about using EQ on a DAP, I bet most HF members use one so it shouldn't be ignored.   Depending on the DAP, an EQ can certainly make a headphone/IEM sound radically different and not always for the worse.


Seems a lot confusion about using the term 'warmth' lately but whatever.  Warmth has nothing to do with being overtly liquid to me.  You can be warm and have proper texture.

 

I don't care if people use EQ or not.  It simply has no place in reviews or comparisons for obvious reasons.  EQ all you want.  If you need EQ to make a phone then it has issues IMO.

 

post #3232 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post


Seems a lot confusion about using the term 'warmth' lately but whatever.  Warmth has nothing to do with being overtly liquid to me.  You can be warm and have proper texture.

 

I don't care if people use EQ or not.  It simply has no place in reviews or comparisons for obvious reasons.  EQ all you want.  If you need EQ to make a phone then it has issues IMO.

 

 

But sources sound different too, even on their "flat" settings. My Clip is clearly warmer and fuller than Samsung T9. Samsung U2 is darker than Shuffle 1st gen and Sony NWZ-A816 is bassier than the Samsung players. Depending on the type of amp used in the source, different headphones can also change their sound signature, depending on their impedance. Low impedance IEMs have more sub bass on my Sony player than higher impedance ones, even if they are using the same drivers. And what about music? Music is EQed differently too...

post #3233 of 16803



I took note with your use of clean and sterile specifically because I wouldn't describe them as either.  The "house sound" of the shures is warm and musical, not clean and sterile.  I agree that the 530's can have proper texture...when EQ'd  very_evil_smiley.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post




Seems a lot confusion about using the term 'warmth' lately but whatever.  Warmth has nothing to do with being overtly liquid to me.  You can be warm and have proper texture.

 

I don't care if people use EQ or not.  It simply has no place in reviews or comparisons for obvious reasons.  EQ all you want.  If you need EQ to make a phone then it has issues IMO.

 



 

post #3234 of 16803

 I still think Joker's massive review is extremely beneficial, but it wouldn't surprise me if I purchased one of the IEM's in his review and found different results than what he described.  It's not his reviews are flawed or he's a fanboy.  It's that gear, even with the EQ off, has a particular signature that may be advantageous or detrimental to any IEM.  It's all about matching gear.  That's the reason why I mentioned the Rio Karma DAP (thanks to its wonderful EQ).  Any Shure+Rio Karma owners can attest to their happy marriage. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

But sources sound different too, even on their "flat" settings. My Clip is clearly warmer and fuller than Samsung T9. Samsung U2 is darker than Shuffle 1st gen and Sony NWZ-A816 is bassier than the Samsung players. Depending on the type of amp used in the source, different headphones can also change their sound signature, depending on their impedance. Low impedance IEMs have more sub bass on my Sony player than higher impedance ones, even if they are using the same drivers. And what about music? Music is EQed differently too...



 

post #3235 of 16803

Hey joker,

 

First off - big thanks for all the time and effort you've put in on this and the headphone review. Amazing contributions to this community.

 

With that said, I want to get your thoughts on my next IEM....

 

Short Version: I'm looking for a durable IEM that is better than my S5i and M50 with presenting details on very busy tracks. Bass needs to be there, but less overpowering than my M50 and S5i - maybe a touch less than the M50? Inline mic and iPhone controls are a plus. Looking for something below $200, but willing to go up high if recommended highly. At the moment, the GR07 seems to be what I'm looking for.

 

 

 

Long Version

Background

- I am a newb. I may have actually read through both your reviews and spent countless hours reading head-fi, but I'm still a newb.

- My on-the-go setup is iPhone 4 --> Klipsch S5i.

- My music files are 50% (lossy?) mp3 and wma rips, 49% apple lossless, and a tiny handful of 256kbps aac and full-blown wav files.

- I have no set music/genre preference. What I listen to changes every few weeks/months. As a result, my music library is all over the place - from Black Eyed Peas to The Verve.....and almost everything in between.

- Lately I've been listening to a lot of dubstep and two recent CD's I picked up -- Linkin Park's A Thousand Suns and OneRepublic's Waking Up.

- My at-home setup is iTunes -> X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty sound card -> TOSLINK -> Astro MixAmp 5.8 -> Audio Technica ATH-M50.

 

What I'm looking for

1) Durability. I am very rough on my IEM's. The Klipsch S5i has withstood the daily abuse for almost 5 months now, with only a tiny/slight kink on the wire to show for. While I will definitely be more careful on my next purchase, it still needs to be able to withstand getting plugged in and out of my iPhone around 20 times a day, 5 days a week.

 

2) Detail and separation. Here is the part where you will have to forgive my newbie-ness and lack of use (and understanding) of common audiophile terminology. Basically, after spending a lot of time with M50's, I find that the same music played on the S5i seems to be more congested and tiny details are harder to recognize as a result. It also doesn't help that the S5i's bass is very very strong.

 

Both the M50 and S5i also seem to be off when playing busy (complicated?) Metallica and Linkin Park tracks. I used to have cassette tapes of their albums a long time ago that I play(or blast, LOL!) on my dad's expensive sony system back in the late 90's. The cymbals, and diff guitars are easy to tell from my pop's speaker system, unlike on my S5i and M50 (though the M50 fares a bit better than the S5i). Perhaps it's too much to expect the same detail (or is it imaging?) from IEM's and headphones?

 

3) Inline mic and iPhone controls. Not very important, but convenience is convenient biggrin.gif

 

4) Budget is less than $200. I am willing to go up above that for something highly recommended. (Translation: I'll delay my purchase of Grado SR325is LOL)

 

I think I've narrowed it down to....

VSonic GR07 -

Fischer Audio DBA 02 -

Ortofon e-Q5 -

Shure SE535 - expensive, and worried about durability.

ER HF3 - anemic on bass?

Phonak PFE - durability concern?

 

Thoughts?

 

A couple of weeks ago I was set on ordering CK10's.....then I hesitated......then it's out of stock. Pffft.

 

 

 

 

(Please let me know if it's more appropriate to open up my own thread.)


Edited by flyingbangus - 6/13/11 at 4:20pm
post #3236 of 16803

Joker, my ECCI PR401 finally arrived.

 

And i have one question if you don't mind. How to put the Sony Hybrid tips on the ECCI?

 

I can't put the tip on the IEM, they don't fit. With the original tips they fit easily.

post #3237 of 16803

ER4 SQ 8.9!!eek.gif Shame on you.  I know this review thing can't be totally objective, but the most detailed and accurate IEM deserves better.wink.gif  What is done is done, none the less.

post #3238 of 16803
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingbangus View Post

Background

- I am a newb. I may have actually read through both your reviews and spent countless hours reading head-fi, but I'm still a newb.

- My on-the-go setup is iPhone 4 --> Klipsch S5i.

- My music files are 50% (lossy?) mp3 and wma rips, 49% apple lossless, and a tiny handful of 320kbps aac and full-blown wav files.

- I have no set music/genre preference. What I listen to changes every few weeks/months. As a result, my music library is all over the place - from Black Eyed Peas to The Verve.....and almost everything in between.

- Lately I've been listening to a lot of dubstep and two recent CD's I picked up -- Linkin Park's A Thousand Suns and OneRepublic's Waking Up.

- My at-home setup is iTunes -> X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty sound card -> TOSLINK -> Astro MixAmp 5.8 -> Audio Technica ATH-M50.

 

What I'm looking for

1) Durability. I am very rough on my IEM's. The Klipsch S5i has withstood the daily abuse for almost 5 months now, with only a tiny/slight kink on the wire to show for. While I will definitely be more careful on my next purchase, it still needs to be able to withstand getting plugged in and out of my iPhone around 20 times a day, 5 days a week.

 

2) Detail and separation. Here is the part where you will have to forgive my newbie-ness and lack of use (and understanding) of common audiophile terminology. Basically, after spending a lot of time with M50's, I find that the same music played on the S5i seems to be more congested and tiny details are harder to recognize as a result. It also doesn't help that the S5i's bass is very very strong.

 

Both the M50 and S5i also seem to be off when playing busy (complicated?) Metallica and Linkin Park tracks. I used to have cassette tapes of their albums a long time ago that I play(or blast, LOL!) on my dad's expensive sony system back in the late 90's. The cymbals, and diff guitars are easy to tell from my pop's speaker system, unlike on my S5i and M50 (though the M50 fares a bit better than the S5i). Perhaps it's too much to expect the same detail (or is it imaging?) from IEM's and headphones?

 

3) Inline mic and iPhone controls. Not very important, but convenience is convenient biggrin.gif

 

I think I've narrowed it down to....

VSonic GR07 -

Fischer Audio DBA 02 -

Ortofon e-Q5 -

Shure SE535 - expensive, and worried about durability.

ER HF3 - anemic on bass?

Phonak PFE - durability concern?


If you plan to be rough, I'd forget the DBA-02, HF3, and Phonaks. Nothing wrong with their build quality but they aren't exactly high-grade survivalist items. The rest are balanced each in their own way. If the S5i sounds like the S4, the GR07, e-Q5, and SE535 should all be a major step up in resolution. The GR07 is better if you like dynamic-driver bass - the e-Q5 and SE535 both sound more soft and gentle. Same goes for the treble, actually - the GR07 is not necessarily aggressive but it's not at all laid-back. A bit like the M50 in that respect. e-Q5 is not laid back either but it's more polite and refined.

 

 

Quote:

 

Originally Posted by victorbrt View Post

Joker, my ECCI PR401 finally arrived.

 

And i have one question if you don't mind. How to put the Sony Hybrid tips on the ECCI?

 

I can't put the tip on the IEM, they don't fit. With the original tips they fit easily.


There's a method to it. Hybrids will fit on pretty much anything but it takes a bit of work. Have to start by putting the corner of the nozzle into the inner core of the eartip and then stretching the rest of the core over the nozzle. You have to be a bit careful but hybrids can take a ton of abuse.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Q View Post

ER4 SQ 8.9!!eek.gif Shame on you.  I know this review thing can't be totally objective, but the most detailed and accurate IEM deserves better.wink.gif  What is done is done, none the less.


Uhh... what?

post #3239 of 16803

My bad, ER4 SQ is listed as 9.3, not 8.9.  I say it should be higher though.  Damn microphonics. It would be perfect if microphonics were dampened. 

post #3240 of 16803
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljokerl View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingbangus View Post

Background

- I am a newb. I may have actually read through both your reviews and spent countless hours reading head-fi, but I'm still a newb.

- My on-the-go setup is iPhone 4 --> Klipsch S5i.

- My music files are 50% (lossy?) mp3 and wma rips, 49% apple lossless, and a tiny handful of 320kbps aac and full-blown wav files.

- I have no set music/genre preference. What I listen to changes every few weeks/months. As a result, my music library is all over the place - from Black Eyed Peas to The Verve.....and almost everything in between.

- Lately I've been listening to a lot of dubstep and two recent CD's I picked up -- Linkin Park's A Thousand Suns and OneRepublic's Waking Up.

- My at-home setup is iTunes -> X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty sound card -> TOSLINK -> Astro MixAmp 5.8 -> Audio Technica ATH-M50.

 

What I'm looking for

1) Durability. I am very rough on my IEM's. The Klipsch S5i has withstood the daily abuse for almost 5 months now, with only a tiny/slight kink on the wire to show for. While I will definitely be more careful on my next purchase, it still needs to be able to withstand getting plugged in and out of my iPhone around 20 times a day, 5 days a week.

 

2) Detail and separation. Here is the part where you will have to forgive my newbie-ness and lack of use (and understanding) of common audiophile terminology. Basically, after spending a lot of time with M50's, I find that the same music played on the S5i seems to be more congested and tiny details are harder to recognize as a result. It also doesn't help that the S5i's bass is very very strong.

 

Both the M50 and S5i also seem to be off when playing busy (complicated?) Metallica and Linkin Park tracks. I used to have cassette tapes of their albums a long time ago that I play(or blast, LOL!) on my dad's expensive sony system back in the late 90's. The cymbals, and diff guitars are easy to tell from my pop's speaker system, unlike on my S5i and M50 (though the M50 fares a bit better than the S5i). Perhaps it's too much to expect the same detail (or is it imaging?) from IEM's and headphones?

 

3) Inline mic and iPhone controls. Not very important, but convenience is convenient biggrin.gif

 

I think I've narrowed it down to....

VSonic GR07 -

Fischer Audio DBA 02 -

Ortofon e-Q5 -

Shure SE535 - expensive, and worried about durability.

ER HF3 - anemic on bass?

Phonak PFE - durability concern?


If you plan to be rough, I'd forget the DBA-02, HF3, and Phonaks. Nothing wrong with their build quality but they aren't exactly high-grade survivalist items. The rest are balanced each in their own way. If the S5i sounds like the S4, the GR07, e-Q5, and SE535 should all be a major step up in resolution. The GR07 is better if you like dynamic-driver bass - the e-Q5 and SE535 both sound more soft and gentle. Same goes for the treble, actually - the GR07 is not necessarily aggressive but it's not at all laid-back. A bit like the M50 in that respect. e-Q5 is not laid back either but it's more polite and refined.

 

 

Quote:

 

Originally Posted by victorbrt View Post

Joker, my ECCI PR401 finally arrived.

 

And i have one question if you don't mind. How to put the Sony Hybrid tips on the ECCI?

 

I can't put the tip on the IEM, they don't fit. With the original tips they fit easily.


There's a method to it. Hybrids will fit on pretty much anything but it takes a bit of work. Have to start by putting the corner of the nozzle into the inner core of the eartip and then stretching the rest of the core over the nozzle. You have to be a bit careful but hybrids can take a ton of abuse.

 

Joker, i have tried that, but not for so long. I will try again: it's the only way i can think. The green Sony Hybrid is the medium one?

 

I pretend to do A/B comparasion with the AT CKM55 with my Fiio E7 (that have two headphones jack) but, from what I hear, I can see that the ECCI PR401 is much better to CKM55.

 

The only thing that bothers me is the fit. With the original ones, i try the medium size and, althrought the IEM seems to fit my ear, they don't go very deep: if i put my finger in the IEM and push it to my ear i can feel that he goes deeper and then came back a little when i put my finger off. It's normal?

 

My fear is of bad fit, because sometimes I hear the voice of the vocalist become harsh.

 

Ah, Joker, do you notice an improvement of ECCI PR401 with burn-in?


Edited by victorbrt - 6/13/11 at 7:16pm
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