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Multi-IEM Review - 352 IEMs compared (Pump Audio Earphones added 04/03/16 p. 1106) - Page 111

post #1651 of 16802

SM3 is just like every other IEM. Some like it, some hate it.

 

I don't have any fit issues (with stock bi-flanges, Shure Olives) and I've not tried to EQ / Mod them. Bass does not have the very lows, treble is slightly recessed, the presentation becomes unnatural especially with live performances where it envelops your head rather than present a stage. Every listening session with SM3 goes something like this - denial, acceptance and appreciation of it's sound signature. Strangely, I don't feel the treble 'recessed' at the end. It's like an invisible voodoo driver acting on me half way through.

 

I don't have such issues with DBA-02. I plug and forget. At odd times, when coming from something like a FX700, it takes me a couple of minutes to adjust. But, it never needs a brain burn-in / adjustment like SM3. I've had SM3 for less than a week, so I am stretching things here - If you accept SM3's way of presentation, 10/10 does not look out of place; if not, it looks a bit charitable for the 'flaws' it has. Just my 2c.

post #1652 of 16802
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljokerl View Post

 


Anyway, both NE-700X and PR401 on the way for me. Hopefully the PR401 will be the ECCI earphone that finally recaptures that Cyclone PR1 Pro refinement.


Excellent. I ordered the NE-700X so should either get it Monday (if Nuforce was working today and shipped it or on Wednesday next week but I don't think they notify when an item has shipped since when I bought the uDAC they never gave me a notification). I look forward to when you  have time to offer your thoughts on them as well as the ECCI one. I've never heard the Cyclone PR1 Pro but I have heard of it's bang for the buck factor for quite a while when it was still around so hopefully something good comes out of their newest earphone. I've never owned a Nuforce earphone so it's about time I owned one and it seems like a good contrast to my M2 according to one head-fi member I asked at least.

post #1653 of 16802

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by voicemaster View Post

Just got Sunrise Xcape and so far it sounds similar to the review. Thanks to this thread, I finally found IEM that sounds like KSC75 with isolation (sound signature is pretty similar IMHO although the Xcape sounds better overall). Just a question, does Xcape benefit from burn-in? I believe in burn-in, my other IEMs definitely sounds different than when I first got it so burn-in is real IMHO. 



It actually does.  It likes more burn-in than usual from what I normally run, at least on my pair.  Greater than 100 would be good as I only gave mine 20 before listening.  Amping really brings them up another notch too.

 

@averagejoe.  Your analogy is spot on IMO.  I am definitely in the ("all I see are dots, these things are stupid") camp.  It has nothing to do w/ IQ or elitism.  As with the autostereograms and the SM3 I simply am not willing to play the game.  I take no offense to what AJ said myself and actually agree with it.  Maybe that's the source of polarization.  Those willing to try listening in a different way will be rewarded w/ a unique experience not found elsewhere.  Others, like myself, prefer how they listen and want nothing more than to find that which best fulfills that experience.  As we know, the latter is already hard enough to achieve let alone learning new tricks.  Everytime I see one of those dot collages I want to replace them w/ bullet holes and a gasoline induced flaming demise.  Georges Seurat represents the limits of my Pointillism.    

post #1654 of 16802

Anaxilus: What are the changes from the burn-in? Right now, at only around 5 hours, I can hear that the bass is getting more pronounce, it's like it has more body/solid, the punch getting more impact but not boomy at all just very tight bass. I haven't notice any changes to the mid and treble.

post #1655 of 16802

Treble a bit, mids clean up and open up enough to improve detail and overall coherence tying the frequencies together better IMO.  Out of the box they sounded kind of glossy in the mids to me.  YMMV. 

post #1656 of 16802

Yesterday, when I heard Hotel California by Eagles, I can hear the clicking from the bass pedal, usually I can't hear it even with my Denon C700 which is pretty detail IMHO. And in another song I can hear the acoustic guitar playing which I couldn't hear before, it's amazing. I think the reason why I couldn't hear those sound was because the bass kind of veiling it up, not the case with the Xcape. 

post #1657 of 16802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

 

 

@averagejoe.  Your analogy is spot on IMO.  I am definitely in the ("all I see are dots, these things are stupid") camp.  It has nothing to do w/ IQ or elitism.  As with the autostereograms and the SM3 I simply am not willing to play the game.  I take no offense to what AJ said myself and actually agree with it.  Maybe that's the source of polarization.  Those willing to try listening in a different way will be rewarded w/ a unique experience not found elsewhere.  Others, like myself, prefer how they listen and want nothing more than to find that which best fulfills that experience.  As we know, the latter is already hard enough to achieve let alone learning new tricks.  Everytime I see one of those dot collages I want to replace them w/ bullet holes and a gasoline induced flaming demise.  Georges Seurat represents the limits of my Pointillism.    


Merry Christmas!  I don't think it is 100% spot on because I don't have to "work" at it, it just happens for me.  When I first got the SM3, I heard some greatness hidden behind the way to thick and warm presentation.  I had someone verify what I was hearing.  Somewhere around 2 weeks later, the too warm and too thick went away and I was left with what I heard as greatness!  The person that listened previously, without hearing them again, heard them as much clearer (although he still preferred the FX700).  I think one of the reasons I like the SM3 is my brain interprets the space as larger than the competition with the right 3D proportions, which were better than the rest I had heard to that date.

 

So, my analogy was more about brain interpretation of the SM3 presentation, and possibly sound in general (just from IEMs?).  From offline conversations with many people on here, some hear large differences in soundstage size/shape, others don't and sound signature is much more important.  I would take a great soundstage over a slightly preferred sound signature for the most part (Tesla T1 vs. LCD-2 being an exception, as the T1 has a wider presentation, but I find the LCD-2 sounds more natural and preferred overall).  I think the soundstage, resolution, reverb, extension, etc. result in technical differences while sound signature is more a preference.   

 

Disclaimer: I am not trying to be elitist, nor am I saying anything about anyone's intelligence, nor am I saying anyone is right or wrong, just sharing a though process/flow.

post #1658 of 16802
I think the analogy pretty accurate. I am someone who sees those pictures through effort and not all the time. I know others who just see the picture with no effort and others who don't see it all or just can't be bothered. I think the SM3 is just like that and I fall into the work at camp with them but do have days where I do just get "it". I have considered selling them several times but do find they work well for alot of my needs so keep listening.

I also agree with others about there presentation being unique in placing a person in the middle but not always appropriate for all music. For some this would make the SM3 to expensive and inappropriate for their needs if their main music choices fall into those categories.

As for Joker's review I have no problem with it follows his methodology.
post #1659 of 16802

People just see the picture (think abstract painting) differently as simple as that. Some see certain aspects of it as a flaw and others as a virtue. To some certain parts of the picture look like chaos while to some it's coherently done. Doesn't necessarily have to be some complex image. This applies to iems, in my opinion and every iem throughout head-fi has been very polarizing because of this. The SM3s just have this controversy accentuated because it comes at a time where theres more competition, it "battles" for a top spot and the community is at a growth. 


Edited by Inks - 12/25/10 at 9:48pm
post #1660 of 16802

Autostereogram? Abstract painting? I don't think so. Why should anyone who's able to recreate a 3D soundstage with other IEMs not be able to do the same with the SM3? The one thing that's different with the Earsonics though, they lack forward projection:

 

LL

 

Here's my humble take on the matter, I agree with those who've said (back in the SM3 threads) that soundstaging depends widely on the mix. But IMO forward projection is a feature of the headphone, not the mix. We don't need it when listening to music from stereo speakers, because speakers are already located in front of us. Yet listening to the same recordings from our headphones, most folks would desire some kind of forward projection (tricking the brain into believing that the source is in front of us) to recreate the same feeling we get from speakers or from a live venue. Just think of Ultrasone making millions off their S-Logic and you'll see what I mean.

 

Well, there's one group of listeners that presumably don't want forward projection and that would be live musicians on stage, because they need to recreate the feeling of being among their fellow musicians. This is where Earsonics are coming from and I guess they simply didn't consider those different needs between professionals and non-professionals when they designed the SM3. Now that doesn't make the Earsonics bad IEMs at all, but IMO it is something to consider before deciding on these phones.

 

I couldn't agree more with those who've said, (if possible) try before you buy the SM3.

post #1661 of 16802
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

[...] Well, there's one group of listeners that presumably don't want forward projection and that would be live musicians on stage [...]

 

Plus me. I really love feeling a part of the music, rather than a listener. That said I can imagine how people would hate it.
 

post #1662 of 16802

Well my example of abstract painting was meant to explain it's polarization. You see, I can see people liking that intimate signature, I actually don't and was one of the reasons I disliked the RE262s. Therefore it's up to the listener to decide as we don't all see that same....


Edited by Inks - 12/26/10 at 1:04am
post #1663 of 16802

I think I understood what you meant. I just don't see why there would be any special complexity to the SM3 or any dots that some can see and others can't. In my book they follow the same acoustic principles as any other IEMs. I've tried to explain their unusual spatial presentation and the way I see it leaves far less room for interpretation than an abstract painting. Of course that's just my 2c, no offense meant. smile_phones.gif

post #1664 of 16802
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

I think I understood what you meant. I just don't see why there would be any special complexity to the SM3 or any dots that some can see and others can't. In my book they follow the same acoustic principles as any other IEMs. I've tried to explain their unusual spatial presentation and the way I see it leaves far less room for interpretation than an abstract painting. Of course that's just my 2c, no offense meant. smile_phones.gif


I thought the analogy involved the soundstage presentation but wasn't limited to it.  I never connected the dots or cared to so can't speak to what the entire prized picture looks like.  Also, if the point is to be part of the music as a musician wouldn't you want to swap channels as well?  Or is that just more crazy than being under the stage?

post #1665 of 16802

No offence taken, just misunderstood. Your opinion of them is pretty clear and helpful, making it clear that they won't be for me. . 

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