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Multi-IEM Review - 328 IEMs compared (Lear LUF-4F / LUF-4B / LUF-4C added 11/07/14 p. 994) - Page 859

post #12871 of 15073
Quote:
Originally Posted by starfly View Post
 

For any of you guys wondering what the differences are between the Yamaha EPH-100 and HiFiMAN RE-400, check out this thread where @modulor posts his impressions of both (and also a bit of the Vsonic GR07) when he had all of them and was able to test them.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/704091/hifiman-re-400-or-yamaha-eph-100

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post
 

Tricky question...I think it's harder to compare IEMs to speakers than full sized open headphones.  As far as soundstage goes, the GR07s will have a wider, further back presentation, so that may be more in line with your Q701 (from memory).  I feel like depth/height is presented a bit better in the RE-400 though.  Comparatively, it seems more equal in each component of soundstage (more spherical to give a visual) vs the GR07 which has more width than depth/height.

@ Starfly- Thanks for that link, it was very helpful.

 

@ Modular- Thats an amazing write up! The sibilance you describe in the gr07 BE has me leaning towards the Re-400. Is the sub bass in the re-400 really that subdued? Also how well does the re-400 do vocals? Which is the more technical iem? 

post #12872 of 15073
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanchandy View Post
 

 

@ Starfly- Thanks for that link, it was very helpful.

 

@ Modular- Thats an amazing write up! The sibilance you describe in the gr07 BE has me leaning towards the Re-400. Is the sub bass in the re-400 really that subdued? Also how well does the re-400 do vocals? Which is the more technical iem? 

Yeah, regarding sibilance in general, it may not be quite as much a bad thing for everyone, but I just so happen to find myself more sensitive and the GR07s have a tendency to emphasize on it.  I'm not saying they add it in, but in recordings (mainly poorer mastered recordings) that tend to already have it, it seems exacerbated.  I wouldn't say the sub-bass is subdued per se, but it's not emphasized in any way...just a very flat response.  It may be perceived as subdued though depending on the track...as Starfly mentioned, bass heavy tracks sound good on their own in most instances, but the mid-range has a tendency to steal the show if there is more going on there.  You'll notice this in some rock tracks for example.  So far of all the IEMs I've tried, the RE-400 is my favorite for vocals and acoustic instruments...while it's not the bulk of what I'm listening to, it's becoming more common in my rotation because of the RE-400 and HE-500 haha.  I think they're very close technically speaking, but their signatures are a bit different.  I think the GR07 is technically better in bass overall, and is one of the best out there in terms of bass quality/texturing...but the RE-400 has more favorable mids and the treble is more suitable to my tastes.


Edited by modulor - 2/7/14 at 2:19pm
post #12873 of 15073
Quote:
Originally Posted by modulor View Post
 

Yeah, regarding sibilance in general, it may not be quite as much a bad thing for everyone, but I just so happen to find myself more sensitive and the GR07s have a tendency to emphasize on it.  I'm not saying they add it in, but in recordings (mainly poorer mastered recordings) that tend to already have it, it seems exacerbated.  I wouldn't say the sub-bass is subdued per se, but it's not emphasized in any way...just a very flat response.  It may be perceived as subdued though depending on the track...as Starfly mentioned, bass heavy tracks sound good on their own in most instances, but the mid-range has a tendency to steal the show if there is more going on there.  You'll notice this in some rock tracks for example.  So far of all the IEMs I've tried, the RE-400 is my favorite for vocals and acoustic instruments...while it's not the bulk of what I'm listening to, it's becoming more common in my rotation because of the RE-400 and HE-500 haha.  I think they're very close technically speaking, but their signatures are a bit different.  I think the GR07 is technically better in bass overall, and is one of the best out there in terms of bass quality/texturing...but the RE-400 has more favorable mids and the treble is more suitable to my tastes.

Thank you so much. I love how descriptive your posts are. The re-400 seems to be the one I was looking for :etysmile:

post #12874 of 15073
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcrom View Post

Can I use my relatively expensive IEM when I workoout without damaging it badly?

 

Depends on many factors including type of IEM. Lots of people here use higher-end IEMs at the gym. Personally I wouldn’t – there are plenty of sub-$100 sets I can enjoy just fine without worrying (much) about them. There are additional considerations with some earphones as well, like moisture potentially being detrimental to balanced armature drivers in the long run.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPICFAILXD View Post
 

Which sounds better- Dunu DN-1000 or Fischer DBA-02 MKII??

 

The question to ask would be whether you want a more accurate and balanced sound or a more lively and bassy one. Despite sharing one of their drivers they sound pretty different. DN-1000 review coming soon.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamboman View Post
 

Thanks for the reply. Read a few reviews and it seems that durability in the long run with the Flux isn't great, and I'd want to spend a little more on a quality item that lasts.

 

You've said in your previously that the EPH-100 is closer to the MH1C than the MA750. Is the MA750's mid-range slightly more forward than the EPH-100 and MH1C?

 

Thanks!

 

I didn’t think so – see my comment here: http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone_review/rha-ma750-ma750i/#comment-2534 . I found the MA750 a little less prominent in the midrange than the MH1C relative to the bass and treble (i.e. more v-shaped).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telltale View Post
 

Hi Joker,

 

Firstly a huge thank you for everything you do. The thread is my go to resource and always open whenever I'm looking at IEMs. Also you're dedication with replying to people here and giving your advice is phenomenal so props to you.

 

I've got some money going spare and I'm looking to get a new pair of earphones. I started with the GR06's which I adored. it may be that I conditioned myself to their sound signature but I loved the liquid smooth and forward mids they had and the overall balance. Unfortunately they were stolen and so I looked into getting a new pair of earphones: the VSD1S. They took a bit of getting used to compared to the GR06 but I've adjusted to them now.

 

Compared to the GR06 the VSD1S wins out on a few things: the detail and extra kick in the bass is awesome, increased detail in the mids and highs, the more airy soundstage. They're certainly a much better IEM for when I'm listening to EDM/rap/dance music. However I find the analytical  V-shaped sound signature quite fatiguing and I really miss the luscious forward mids of the GR06. Vocals come across as very recessed with the VSD which has turned out to be a pet peeve of mine. I would easily lose myself in the sound of the GR06 whereas the VSD1 often feels a bit distant. 

 

I've also had some usage with the JVC FXD60 which I found to be quite boring with very little kick to the bass, rolled off highs and a pretty boxed-in soundstage.

 

As such I'm looking for a new IEM. Something warm, mid-centric and forward that might be considered an upgrade to the GR06 and complement the VSD1. I'm looking for something <£80 hopefully. These are the ones I've considered from reading about:

 

Vsonic GR07 - Popular and originally what I was considering, however reading up it sounds like it's a bit closer to the VSD1 than the GR06 so the mids probably wouldn't be forward enough.

 

SE215 - Many people view these as mid-centric and forward while still being solid in the bass department. The build quality and over-ear designs are positives too.

 

MA750 - You recommend them as great warm sounding IEMs and the overall package is very appealing. I'd be a bit worried they're not quite the right sound signature I'm looking for, especially with the warm and forwardness of the mids.

 

RE-400 - Again very well recommended and popular but I'd concerned that the fairly balanced sound signature isn't what I'm looking for and might be a bit fatiguing.

 

Etymotic MC5/Ety Kids - Similar to above you describe them as overall very balanced but slightly mid-centric. They may not have the warm sound I'm looking for but the isolation and design are attractive features.

 

Vsonic GR06 - Ofcourse if there's nothing that seems like a viable upgrade I'll probably be perfectly happy getting the GR06s again. Much cheaper too.

 

Sorry for the lengthy post, any help would be greatly appreciated. 

 

I agree with your take on the GR07 and wouldn’t recommend them for forward mids. Same goes for the MA750. The Etykids and MC5 are probably too analytical – definitely more so than the RE-400.

 

The only ones worth considering, then, are the GR06, SE215, and RE-400. Personally I don’t find the SE215 to be mid-centric because of the heavier bass. I know Shure has a reputation for strong mids but I feel it’s earned more by their higher-end models.

 

The RE-400 is mid-centric but less so because the mids are pushed forward and more because the deep bass and treble are less prominent than something like the VSD1S and GR06. I like the RE-400’s midrange presentation, but again it’s a different type of sound. I wouldn’t worry about them being fatiguing, though – usually that’s caused by excessive bass and/or treble and there’s none of that with the RE-400.

 

The GR06, of course, you’re quite familiar with. There are a few other sets with strong mids, like the RBH EP1/EP2 that I reviewed recently, but you’d be hard-pressed to find them worth the extra $ over the GR06.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orel View Post
 

Hey Joker, the AKG K323XS look interesting. You think you would have a chance to try these? :)

 

Never heard of these until now. AKG’s marketing really leaves something to be desired here in the US. The last set I got from them was the K376 which is good but not great for $100+.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by starfly View Post
 

 

So I had already ordered the RE-400 and thought I'd return them, because from what I've been reading I figured the EPH-100 might be a bit closer to what I'm looking for than the RE-400. Just thought I'd miss out on the low end. So I sent an e-mail to the store owner and the guy calls me back within an hour and basically urges me to actually give them a listen and that I shouldn't worry about the return policy, that if I still don't like them after giving them a proper listening session I could still return them. Good guy!! He also told me to burn them in for 24 hours and try it with the included Comply tips. That's what I call great service!

 

So I haven't burnt them in yet for 24 hours, but they've been playing music for most of the day and I decided to give them a try just now (actually listening to them right now). So far I have to say that they sound better than I expected. The sound is a bit clinical compared to my SE530, but otherwise the bass has much more presence than I was expecting. It probably misses that last bit of sub-bass that the SE530 can offer, but the mids and highs are quite clear. Not completely sure yet if I like their somewhat forward presentation (especially the mids), it's a little bit too much in my face so far. But I like all the detail it retrieves though. Otherwise, I can tell it's a tiny driver, the SE530 just sounds a bit 'bigger', but I guess that was to be expected given that actual physical size difference.

 

So will burn them in more overnight and tomorrow during the day and will give them another spin tomorrow night. But so far, better than I was expecting. The EPH-100 is also on the way, but I probably won't be able to return those once I've tried them (from a different store) so I'm just gonna have to guess how they sound based on reviews of both IEMs.

 

So far I've tried them with the big double-flange tips included, those are most comfortable and give me a good seal. Oh, and also I sometimes get the illusion that I'm not getting a good seal with the sound thinning out, but then I check and they're still sealed properly. Does this have to do with the wider soundstage compared to the SE530, which basically places all the instruments farther away from each other giving the impression of thinner/emptier sound?

 

That sounds about right RE: the RE-400. I like their small double-flange tips, personally.

 

I don’t think the soundstage should appear wider compared to the SE530 but the earphone might sound a little thinner overall because you’re hearing less deep bass and possibly more treble.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5fteleven View Post
 

Hi Joker. A silly question, but out of the 309 iems do you find TDK EB900 as having the strongest bass? Also is koss spark plug (pathfinder) bassier?

 

It’s certainly close, but not as heavy on subbass as the HiSound Wooduo or on mid-bass as the TFTA 1V. EB900 is definitely top 5 in overall bass quantity, though.

 

I haven’t tried the spark plug.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by reihead View Post
 

 

Thanks joker, 

What about regardless of the same SS? What would be an upgrade?

 

 

That’s an even tougher question – I guess it depends on what direction you want move in in terms of sound. The GR07 is not easy to upgrade from, as many will undoubtedly attest to. If you want smoother, more accurate sound I would consider the StageDiver2 to be an appreciable upgrade, for example, but if you want both clarity and heavy bass it would have to be something like an IE 800 from Sennheiser. Quite a few of my customs make the GR07 sound bad in comparison as well, for example the 1964 V6-Stage.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPICFAILXD View Post
 

Joker, do you think i should buy the Fischer DBA-02? I'm looking for an upgrade from my FXT90, and am looking for a balanced sound, so would it be an upgrade? If not, what would you recommend as an upgrade (max $200-250) Thanks

 

Well, it’s certainly more balanced and accurate than the FXT90, but more "analytical" as well by quite a margin. Recently I have actually found myself preferring the VSonic VC1000 to the DBA-02 mkII for sound, and it’s a little cheaper as well. For a compromise, if you're worried about the DBA-02 or VC1000 being too far in the other direction the GR07 or even RE-400 might be a nice compromise. The RE-400 especially will offer a huge contrast to the FXT90 with its mid-focused sound.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johanchandy View Post
 

Joker, which one is more speaker like out of these two, re-400 or the gr07 BE? I wan't to get an Iem for portable use when I'm away from my modded q701's.

 

Assuming you just want the one with the wider/more out-of-the-head soundstage, the GR07 BE, as modulor said, but there are many ways in which speakers differ from IEMs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by starfly View Post
 

For any of you guys wondering what the differences are between the Yamaha EPH-100 and HiFiMAN RE-400, check out this thread where @modulor posts his impressions of both (and also a bit of the Vsonic GR07) when he had all of them and was able to test them.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/704091/hifiman-re-400-or-yamaha-eph-100

 

Great read!

post #12875 of 15073

Hey |joker|,

 

Been shuffling more and more between Universals and Customs, and now I'm honed in on the Earsonics SM64's. How do you feel they match up to the 1964 V3's and V6-s? I was thinking of having an intermediary step before going full baloney on the CIEM world. 

 

One last thing; do you believe they're a clear upgrade from something like the Brainwavz B2/DBA and GR07 BE?

 

Thanks!

post #12876 of 15073
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaed View Post
 

Hey |joker|,

 

Been shuffling more and more between Universals and Customs, and now I'm honed in on the Earsonics SM64's. How do you feel they match up to the 1964 V3's and V6-s? I was thinking of having an intermediary step before going full baloney on the CIEM world. 

 

One last thing; do you believe they're a clear upgrade from something like the Brainwavz B2/DBA and GR07 BE?

 

Thanks!

 

    i dont think they are a clear upgrade to dba-2 , v6 stage can be a full upgrade .

post #12877 of 15073
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaed View Post
 

Hey |joker|,

 

Been shuffling more and more between Universals and Customs, and now I'm honed in on the Earsonics SM64's. How do you feel they match up to the 1964 V3's and V6-s? I was thinking of having an intermediary step before going full baloney on the CIEM world. 

 

One last thing; do you believe they're a clear upgrade from something like the Brainwavz B2/DBA and GR07 BE?

 

Thanks!

 

Pretty close to the V3, which is held back somewhat by its heavy bass, in overall SQ. However, I wouldn't call it an upgrade from the B2 and GR07BE because of its significantly warmer, more colored sound signature. The V6-Stage makes for a much better upgrade from the B2/DBA or GR07 because it's also quite neutral, just performs better on a technical level. There's an SM64 comparison in the V6-Stage review: http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone_review/1964ears-v6-stage/ 

post #12878 of 15073

Hey |joker|!

 

Thanks for putting this thread together :D

 

I recently lost my Audio Technica CKS-1000's in a snowstorm and wanted a <$100 option to replace them and went with the Sony XBA-C10's and XBA-1's to try.

 

I was wondering if you could recommend me something like the XBA-C10's. I love the soundstage, clarity, upper-mids and highs, and the tightness of the bass even though it rolls off a bit. However, I am yearning for that impact of a bit more bass.

 

I don't want anything bass heavy, but just because of the nature of the single armature, it just feels like even though the bass is there, I'm not getting the oomph from it.

 

Requirements: 

y-cable

inline mic and remote (preferably with volume controls)

straight down (I find it gets really finnicky with glasses for over-the-ear)

< $150 

 

Thanks!

post #12879 of 15073
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljokerl View Post
 

 

Pretty close to the V3, which is held back somewhat by its heavy bass, in overall SQ. However, I wouldn't call it an upgrade from the B2 and GR07BE because of its significantly warmer, more colored sound signature. The V6-Stage makes for a much better upgrade from the B2/DBA or GR07 because it's also quite neutral, just performs better on a technical level. There's an SM64 comparison in the V6-Stage review: http://theheadphonelist.com/headphone_review/1964ears-v6-stage/ 

 

Ahh, thanks for that!

 

When you have a great IEM you got for $100 and there's no clear upgrade except for a mid-range CIEM... #audiophileproblems

post #12880 of 15073
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goombi View Post
 

Hey |joker|!

 

Thanks for putting this thread together :D

 

I recently lost my Audio Technica CKS-1000's in a snowstorm and wanted a <$100 option to replace them and went with the Sony XBA-C10's and XBA-1's to try.

 

I was wondering if you could recommend me something like the XBA-C10's. I love the soundstage, clarity, upper-mids and highs, and the tightness of the bass even though it rolls off a bit. However, I am yearning for that impact of a bit more bass.

 

I don't want anything bass heavy, but just because of the nature of the single armature, it just feels like even though the bass is there, I'm not getting the oomph from it.

 

Requirements: 

y-cable

inline mic and remote (preferably with volume controls)

straight down (I find it gets really finnicky with glasses for over-the-ear)

< $150 

 

Thanks!

 

I've never tried the XBA-C10 and the XBA-1 only briefly at a show. Assuming the C10 sounds like most other good sub-$100 single BAs it's going to be tough to find an upgrade that fits all of your requirements. For example the GR07, my default recommendation for an accurate-sounding earphone that's not lacking in bass, fails on two counts for you (3 if you count price). 

 

Sets I would recommend for the type of sound you're describing with headset functionality and a cable-down fit (keep in mind I haven't heard the C10): JVC HA-FRD80 and SteelSeries Flux In-Ear. The FRD80 might be a touch too bassy but the bass quality is quite good. The Flux has very nice bass that's far from excessive but might have a little less clarity than the C10 if the C10 can run with the likes of the MEElec A161 and Ultimate Ears 600. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaed View Post
 

 

Ahh, thanks for that!

 

When you have a great IEM you got for $100 and there's no clear upgrade except for a mid-range CIEM... #audiophileproblems

 

True that :D. I find it especially applicable when it comes to well-rounded IEMs like the GR07.

post #12881 of 15073

Hi ljokerl,

 

could you please advise a reasonable upgrade-path (from lets say $50 to $1000+) for transparent/analytical/neutral (to slightly bright) sounding (C)IEMs?

 

Many, many thanks. :)

post #12882 of 15073
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 991 Carrera 4S View Post
 

Hi ljokerl,

 

could you please advise a reasonable upgrade-path (from lets say $50 to $1000+) for transparent/analytical/neutral (to slightly bright) sounding (C)IEMs?

 

Many, many thanks. :)

 

Interesting question. I would say:

 

$50-100: VSonic VC02 or Etymotic Research MC5, MEElec A161P if you want to jump into BA right away

$100-200: Etymotic HF5 or Rock-It Sounds R-50/VSonic VC1000/Brainwavz B2

$200+: Etymotic ER4S, j-Phonic K2 SP (if you're in Japan)

Customs: 1964EARS V6-Stage (balanced), JHAudio JH13 Pro (bassier), Hidition NT 6 (brighter)

 

I bolded my personal picks at each level. 

post #12883 of 15073
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljokerl View Post
 

 

Interesting question. I would say:

 

$50-100: VSonic VC02 or Etymotic Research MC5, MEElec A161P if you want to jump into BA right away

$100-200: Etymotic HF5 or Rock-It Sounds R-50/VSonic VC1000/Brainwavz B2

$200+: Etymotic ER4S, j-Phonic K2 SP (if you're in Japan)

Customs: 1964EARS V6-Stage (balanced), JHAudio JH13 Pro (bassier), Hidition NT 6 (brighter)

 

I bolded my personal picks at each level. 

I would also include:

$350-600: Westone 4, Shure 535 and Noble 4

$600-900: Noble 6 (balanced), Shure 846(bass but with incredible control)

post #12884 of 15073
Quote:
Originally Posted by 991 Carrera 4S View Post
 

Hi ljokerl,

 

could you please advise a reasonable upgrade-path (from lets say $50 to $1000+) for transparent/analytical/neutral (to slightly bright) sounding (C)IEMs?

 

Many, many thanks. :)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddhahacker View Post
 

I would also include:

$350-600: Westone 4, Shure 535 and Noble 4

$600-900: Noble 6 (balanced), Shure 846(bass but with incredible control)

 

I think ljokerl did not include them because 991 Carrera 4S  mentioned 'slightly brighter'.

 

I have only tried SE535 (both CL and LTD-J versions) and currently own the Noble 4C (not the N4) among the IEMs you mentioned. I don't think either of them fit the 'slightly brighter' description.

post #12885 of 15073

Joker, 

 

I have the VSD1S and was wondering just how much of an upgrade the Fidue A63 was over it. The way you explained it mirrors what I'm looking for: clear, good vocals (especially for females), and a bit less bass. Is it worth buying or should I get something else? I'm willing to spend up to $100, don't want the re-400 due to quality issues, and also think I want something with bass that's maybe in between the two. 

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