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Multi-IEM Review - 321 IEMs compared (NarMoo S1 added 09/04/14 p. 966) - Page 203

post #3031 of 14603

 

Joker ,

I noticed you have had the TF10 as a planned review for the past 5 months. I think many people would appreciate a review since they are so often referenced on the forums. Also, I am just very curious to see how it compares to the hundreds of IEM’s you have listened to. If it’s a matter of getting one, I would be happy to donate one cause I live in West LA also. I can steal one from my roommate who is a TF10 whore and has three of them.

 

I also wanted to thank you for your effort and devotion to such a worthy cause. I am a medical student and have been studying 12 hours a day for the past few months and I have actually enjoyed the last few months because of this headphone hobby that I am now so deep into because of you. I just thought you well deserved and proper shoutout.

post #3032 of 14603

I'm curious.. just how much does the PR401 & HJE900 have in common?  Being a PR401 owner and reading some of these HJE reviews, it seems like they share quite a bit from a sound signature standpoint, no?

post #3033 of 14603

cant accept the result that DTX 101 just got 7.4 in your review. I've owned my DTX 100 for over a month, and I find out that DTX 100 is better than the X-cape v1 in every aspect except the price. I've been long waiting for the DTX101 score and expected a much higher score it would get.

post #3034 of 14603
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by singha View Post

 

Joker ,

I noticed you have had the TF10 as a planned review for the past 5 months. I think many people would appreciate a review since they are so often referenced on the forums. Also, I am just very curious to see how it compares to the hundreds of IEM’s you have listened to. If it’s a matter of getting one, I would be happy to donate one cause I live in West LA also. I can steal one from my roommate who is a TF10 whore and has three of them.

 

I also wanted to thank you for your effort and devotion to such a worthy cause. I am a medical student and have been studying 12 hours a day for the past few months and I have actually enjoyed the last few months because of this headphone hobby that I am now so deep into because of you. I just thought you well deserved and proper shoutout.


Actually it's been on the list for a year or so. It's not a matter of getting one - I don't put anything on that list unless I own it or otherwise have access to it. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlySweep View Post

I'm curious.. just how much does the PR401 & HJE900 have in common?  Being a PR401 owner and reading some of these HJE reviews, it seems like they share quite a bit from a sound signature standpoint, no?


Yes. There was a post comparing the two a while back (not mine - I didn't own both at the same time). I will admit that the HJE900 has superior drivers but the tuning is not that different between the two.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrsl View Post

cant accept the result that DTX 101 just got 7.4 in your review. I've owned my DTX 100 for over a month, and I find out that DTX 100 is better than the X-cape v1 in every aspect except the price. I've been long waiting for the DTX101 score and expected a much higher score it would get.

 

In what way exactly is the DTX 101 better than the Xcape? My Xcape has better clarity, texture, microdetail, balance, dynamics, top-end extension, and separation than my DTX 101. The DTX 101 has way more bass and that's about it.

 

post #3035 of 14603

Thanks you!

post #3036 of 14603

Great work ljokerl!

 

Could you please help me on the following subject?

 

I've had the RE0 IEMs for almost a year now and I like their sound very much, unfortunatelly it's right channel just died.

So I'm starting to look for an IEM that serves as an upgrade on sonic resolution and with a sound signature that strives for tonal balance and transparency/accuracy above everything.

Ultimately, I want the IEM that gives me the most real and natural sound possible.

 

Budget: 200 - 250USD max (actually, I'm trying to not go above 150 - 170 USD, only if the sound quality is really worth it)

It will be used amped and unamped for home and portable purposes.

I'm a proponent of parametric equalization.

I listen to every kind of music.

(Let's try to forget my Bias with the RE0 sound shall we?)

 

What I'm looking to right now:

 

Fischer Audio DBA-02

Hifiman RE-252

Yuin OK1 (can find this one cheap near me)

Etymotic HF5 (not sure if this one is worth of being included here)

Etymotic ER4

Vsonic GR07

 

Which one of these choices do you find to be the most balanced and transparent one, if it is possible to be both thing at the same time?

Or is there another option that you find to fit my goal for sound signature better than these ones?

How would you compare this choices on sonic resolution/level of detail? Are there big differences or are all of them similar?

Which one do you find to have the most natural presentaton or the best spacial resolution?

 

I'm particularly interested on the GR07, so:

 

On your GR07 review you say about the midrange:

"Texture levels are very good but, as is the case with almost all dynamics, the detailing is not very aggressive compared to higher-end BA-based monitors from Fischer, Etymotic, Audio-Technica, and the like."

With this sentence do you mean that the GR07 has less sonic or detail resolution than those BA monitors, or are you saying instead that those details are just presented in a less upfront (and maybe more realistic) manner?

 

Is there any other sub-300USD IEM with a more realistic or accurate bass reproduction than the GR07?

Do you find the GR07 to match the OK1 midrange transparency/resolution, or is it apples and oranges?

Do you find the GR07 treble reminescent of the UM3X? D you find the GR07 to reproduce cymbals and drums well?

Does the GR07 respond well to equalizaton?

 

Sorry if I'm being to demanding... take your time.

Thank you!

 

post #3037 of 14603

have your dtx been burned in to the best state? i experienced the period when my dtx got a excessive bass without good quality, a recessed mid and a slightly rolled-off treble. but now, after several times of comparison with the x-cape, my result is:

bass: dtx100>>xcape (no doubt, absolutely. the dtx100s' bass is among the best in iems.)

mid: dtx100>=xcape  (due to the lack of the bass of xcape, its mid is thin especially for male vocal, though not resessed.)

treble: dtx100<xcape (dtx's highs are not shining caompared to xcape, but still above average.)

most importantly, the whole sound of dtx is FULL, and is more funny, more versatile for various types of songs than xcape.

i will give the dtx100 a score about 8.5 or above that.

post #3038 of 14603
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Great work ljokerl!

 

Could you please help me on the following subject?

 

I've had the RE0 IEMs for almost a year now and I like their sound very much, unfortunatelly it's right channel just died.

So I'm starting to look for an IEM that serves as an upgrade on sonic resolution and with a sound signature that strives for tonal balance and transparency/accuracy above everything.

Ultimately, I want the IEM that gives me the most real and natural sound possible.

 

Budget: 200 - 250USD max (actually, I'm trying to not go above 150 - 170 USD, only if the sound quality is really worth it)

It will be used amped and unamped for home and portable purposes.

I'm a proponent of parametric equalization.

I listen to every kind of music.

(Let's try to forget my Bias with the RE0 sound shall we?)

 

What I'm looking to right now:

 

Fischer Audio DBA-02

Hifiman RE-252

Yuin OK1 (can find this one cheap near me)

Etymotic HF5 (not sure if this one is worth of being included here)

Etymotic ER4

Vsonic GR07

 

Which one of these choices do you find to be the most balanced and transparent one, if it is possible to be both thing at the same time?

Or is there another option that you find to fit my goal for sound signature better than these ones?

How would you compare this choices on sonic resolution/level of detail? Are there big differences or are all of them similar?

Which one do you find to have the most natural presentaton or the best spacial resolution?

 

I'm particularly interested on the GR07, so:

 

On your GR07 review you say about the midrange:

"Texture levels are very good but, as is the case with almost all dynamics, the detailing is not very aggressive compared to higher-end BA-based monitors from Fischer, Etymotic, Audio-Technica, and the like."

With this sentence do you mean that the GR07 has less sonic or detail resolution than those BA monitors, or are you saying instead that those details are just presented in a less upfront (and maybe more realistic) manner?

 

Is there any other sub-300USD IEM with a more realistic or accurate bass reproduction than the GR07?

Do you find the GR07 to match the OK1 midrange transparency/resolution, or is it apples and oranges?

Do you find the GR07 treble reminescent of the UM3X? D you find the GR07 to reproduce cymbals and drums well?

Does the GR07 respond well to equalizaton?

 

Sorry if I'm being to demanding... take your time.

Thank you!

 

 

That's a very strong list. I really don't think anything in the price range could be added to it. The OK1 and RE252 pop out as two very natural-sounding in-ears that I couldn't live with for reasons independent of SQ. Really, they are all very neutral and balanced but you do miss out on things here and here. The OK1, for example, lacks some sub-bass and the HF5 isn't very 3-dimensional in presentation, at least not compared to something like the DBA-02.

 

As for the GR07, its is mostly all there, though some of the BA-based IEMs such as the DBA-02 do perform a touch better. It is indeed not very upfront, which is what I was referencing with the line you quoted. The GR07 does not match the transparency or resolution of the OK1 but it's pretty close. The OK1 is really an excellent-sounding in-ear with a terrible form factor (when used as an in-ear). The treble on the GR07 is not as laid-back as that of the UM3X. Really very different treble presentations. I do think the GR07 can be equalized but I didn't think it necessary. mvw2 has my GR07 and he's a huge fan of the parametric EQ. Maybe he can lend some specific insight into that.

 


Quote:

Originally Posted by gtrsl View Post

have your dtx been burned in to the best state? i experienced the period when my dtx got a excessive bass without good quality, a recessed mid and a slightly rolled-off treble. but now, after several times of comparison with the x-cape, my result is:

bass: dtx100>>xcape (no doubt, absolutely. the dtx100s' bass is among the best in iems.)

mid: dtx100>=xcape  (due to the lack of the bass of xcape, its mid is thin especially for male vocal, though not resessed.)

treble: dtx100<xcape (dtx's highs are not shining caompared to xcape, but still above average.)

most importantly, the whole sound of dtx is FULL, and is more funny, more versatile for various types of songs than xcape.

i will give the dtx100 a score about 8.5 or above that.


No... I decided to forgo my usual testing protocol and review the DTX 101 without burning it in. Also I had clogged sinuses and only used tracks encoded in 64kbps. 

 

I think you are confusing quantity for quality. The 101 has more bass and more prominent mids than the Xcape. However, it sacrifices a lot of texture and resolution for that fullness of sound you are referring to. The bass is a bit boomy and really way stronger than I would want in the overall balance. It's not a problem with the DTX specifically - it's the 'consumer' sound that many earphones strive for. 'Fun' is not something I give points for. 

post #3039 of 14603

I agree w/ Joker as I had the DTX101 for a few weeks as well.  It was solid but it was no Xcape v.1.  I would have thought a score around 8.0 but Joker did readjust his scale upward by about .5 over the past half year or so.  It's even given my HD558 a run for it's money every now and again.  The v.1 never strikes me as bass light or thin and is always very balanced and refined and never boring.  Easily the best $70-$80 IEM I've had or heard so far.  If only the RE0 had the same balance then that superb treble detail would push it over.

 

Might want to consider how signature preferences and gear synergy play out.

post #3040 of 14603

Joker,

 

Two questions, first i will thank you for your diligance, You have never lead me wrong,.

 

1: Same as the quote, the triplefi10 is somewhat a benchmark for iems. It would help many, if you plublished your results. Don't worry about the backlash................

2; With the added case and adapters of the RE-262, will you change the overall ratnking?

 

 

 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by singha View Post

 

Joker ,

I noticed you have had the TF10 as a planned review for the past 5 months. I think many people would appreciate a review since they are so often referenced on the forums. Also, I am just very curious to see how it compares to the hundreds of IEM’s you have listened to. If it’s a matter of getting one, I would be happy to donate one cause I live in West LA also. I can steal one from my roommate who is a TF10 whore and has three of them.

 

I also wanted to thank you for your effort and devotion to such a worthy cause. I am a medical student and have been studying 12 hours a day for the past few months and I have actually enjoyed the last few months because of this headphone hobby that I am now so deep into because of you. I just thought you well deserved and proper shoutout.



 

post #3041 of 14603


No... I decided to forgo my usual testing protocol and review the DTX 101 without burning it in. Also I had clogged sinuses and only used tracks encoded in 64kbps. 

 

I think you are confusing quantity for quality. The 101 has more bass and more prominent mids than the Xcape. However, it sacrifices a lot of texture and resolution for that fullness of sound you are referring to. The bass is a bit boomy and really way stronger than I would want in the overall balance. It's not a problem with the DTX specifically - it's the 'consumer' sound that many earphones strive for. 'Fun' is not something I give points for. 


I don't think the dtx sacrifices a lot of texture. Overall balance, ye, that's what we hifiers are looking for, but you can't give it such a low score just because it's a bassheads' iem. BTW, the dtx is not that bass heavy or dark. I think you've got a prejudice: you don't like bass, so an iem with a heavy bass will never get a high score in this list even though the rest parts of it are greatI'm not here to devaluate your effort. But I'll appreciate it if you could consider the bassheads' taste.

post #3042 of 14603
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlySweep View Post

I'm curious.. just how much does the PR401 & HJE900 have in common?  Being a PR401 owner and reading some of these HJE reviews, it seems like they share quite a bit from a sound signature standpoint, no?


Heard both at a recent meet with dfkt and the HJE900 struck me as slightly more v-shaped, even with the foam-mod that brings the mids a bit forward. Apart from that the Pannys clearly outclassed the PR401s to my ears. As a former owner of the Cyclones PR1 and PR2 I had actually higher expectations regarding the PR401, but they're of course still good value for the price.

post #3043 of 14603

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtrsl View Post


I don't think the dtx sacrifices a lot of texture. Overall balance, ye, that's what we hifiers are looking for, but you can't give it such a low score just because it's a bassheads' iem. BTW, the dtx is not that bass heavy or dark. I think you've got a prejudice: you don't like bass, so an iem with a heavy bass will never get a high score in this list even though the rest parts of it are greatI'm not here to devaluate your effort. But I'll appreciate it if you could consider the bassheads' taste.


HJE900 and IE8 got great score, and also Eterna and VB. Those are not the most balanced sounding IEMs but rather bassy. I hated HJE900 because it has too much upper bass.

 


Edited by glac1er - 5/22/11 at 6:15am
post #3044 of 14603
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljokerl View Post


 

That's a very strong list. I really don't think anything in the price range could be added to it. The OK1 and RE252 pop out as two very natural-sounding in-ears that I couldn't live with for reasons independent of SQ. Really, they are all very neutral and balanced but you do miss out on things here and here. The OK1, for example, lacks some sub-bass and the HF5 isn't very 3-dimensional in presentation, at least not compared to something like the DBA-02.

 

As for the GR07, its is mostly all there, though some of the BA-based IEMs such as the DBA-02 do perform a touch better. It is indeed not very upfront, which is what I was referencing with the line you quoted. The GR07 does not match the transparency or resolution of the OK1 but it's pretty close. The OK1 is really an excellent-sounding in-ear with a terrible form factor (when used as an in-ear). The treble on the GR07 is not as laid-back as that of the UM3X. Really very different treble presentations. I do think the GR07 can be equalized but I didn't think it necessary. mvw2 has my GR07 and he's a huge fan of the parametric EQ. Maybe he can lend some specific insight into that.

 

 


Apprecciate your answer!

 

Just some more questions:

 

Is the step up in sound quality from the RE0 to any of these higher IEMs bigger or smaller than the step up from a Etymotic MC5 to a RE0?

What are the biggest sonic improvements that these IEMs provide over the RE0 or SW-Xcape?

 

I'm not sure if you remember the OK1 sound well enough to answer the following questions, but anyway...

 

When you say that the GR07 doesn't match the OK1 transparency and resolution, are you refering only to the midrange or to all the frequency spectrum?

Do you think that the DBA-02 is able to match or surpass the transparency, resolution and spatial presentation of the OK1?

How would you compare these two sound signatures? Which one of these two sounds the most real and natural to you?

Is any of these higher IEMs able to match the RE-262 dynamic range effortlessness, besides the GR07?

 

Final questions, hopefully:

Which of these IEMs sound more similar to the AKG K601 and K701 and Beyerdynamic DT 880, respectivelly?

Do you feel that these IEMs fall short  of the sound quality provided by these fullsized headphones on some way other than spatial resolution?

 

Thank you!

post #3045 of 14603
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWBone View Post

Joker,

 

Two questions, first i will thank you for your diligance, You have never lead me wrong,.

 

1: Same as the quote, the triplefi10 is somewhat a benchmark for iems. It would help many, if you plublished your results. Don't worry about the backlash................

2; With the added case and adapters of the RE-262, will you change the overall ratnking?


Backlash... haven't really considered that until now tongue.gif.

Also, got a link to info on the RE262 case/adapter? I've heard about an adapter but nothing about a case.



Quote:
Originally Posted by gtrsl View Post


I don't think the dtx sacrifices a lot of texture. Overall balance, ye, that's what we hifiers are looking for, but you can't give it such a low score just because it's a bassheads' iem. BTW, the dtx is not that bass heavy or dark. I think you've got a prejudice: you don't like bass, so an iem with a heavy bass will never get a high score in this list even though the rest parts of it are greatI'm not here to devaluate your effort. But I'll appreciate it if you could consider the bassheads' taste.


Yep, clearly I hate bass and the DTX's good-but-not-great score has absolutely nothing to do with how it compares to my similarly-priced Eterna/M2/CC51/Hippo 10/Xears TD-III. That's also why the Monster Gold/Copper/MD, Earsonics SM2, IE8, HJE900, Radius TWF11/W21, and JVC FX700 all rank merely as top-tier or near top-tier and not way above everything else as they clearly should be.



Quote:
Originally Posted by glac1er View Post

HJE900 and IE8 got great score, and also Eterna and VB. Those are not the most balanced sounding IEMs but rather bassy. I hated HJE900 because it has too much upper bass.


wink.gif



Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Is the step up in sound quality from the RE0 to any of these higher IEMs bigger or smaller than the step up from a Etymotic MC5 to a RE0?

What are the biggest sonic improvements that these IEMs provide over the RE0 or SW-Xcape?

 

I'm not sure if you remember the OK1 sound well enough to answer the following questions, but anyway...

 

When you say that the GR07 doesn't match the OK1 transparency and resolution, are you refering only to the midrange or to all the frequency spectrum?

Do you think that the DBA-02 is able to match or surpass the transparency, resolution and spatial presentation of the OK1?

How would you compare these two sound signatures? Which one of these two sounds the most real and natural to you?

Is any of these higher IEMs able to match the RE-262 dynamic range effortlessness, besides the GR07?

 

Final questions, hopefully:

Which of these IEMs sound more similar to the AKG K601 and K701 and Beyerdynamic DT 880, respectivelly?

Do you feel that these IEMs fall short  of the sound quality provided by these fullsized headphones on some way other than spatial resolution?

 

Thank you!



The MC5 is a hard one to talk about. It really doesn't do a whole lot wrong on a technical level but, as others have said, somehow manages to suck some of the life out of tracks. The RE0 doesn't do that which puts it a good step above in my book as an overall experience. I don't think I remember the OK1 well enough to answer all those specific questions but I do remember being amazed by its transparency ever time I'd use it. I don't really like to compare IEMs to full-size cans. K601, K701, and DT880 all happen to be well-balanced which can also be said for all of the earphones on your list. In general, I don't feel that IEMs sacrifice as much of the sound quality of full-size cans as most people say when you're looking at the same price point. My AKG rig (dac->heed canamp->akgs) really doesn't keep up with my 1964-T, which costs about the same, in speed, detail, or separation. The headphones do have an advantage in presentation and maybe realism of the way bass impact is conveyed (since the drivers can actually move air), as well as small individual things here and there (e.g. DT880 has better bottom-end extension than my 1964s and the K601 has a smoother, more fluid overall presentation) but generally I don't feel like I'm getting less sound quality for my money while out and about.
 

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