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Review: CharterOak Acoustics SP-1 (GMP 450 Pro) - Page 4

post #46 of 356

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiemen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep Funk View Post

German Maesto, curiosity and necessity do not always mix...


True. But there's a reason I have three MB Quart/German Maestro headphones, and sold my AKG's and Sennheisers.....  

My Beyer is heavily modded.

The German Maestro's have a rare combination of hi-fi quality and musicality to them. And a reasonable price to boot.

My DF cost me 60 euros and can sound extremely musical although it needs a good source and serious amplification to sound its best. The same applies for the big Philips. For the coming time I have to lose about 8 or 10 headphones and after that I can think of adding another headphone.    
 

post #47 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep Funk View Post

Well, the thing is I found a mint Sennheiser HD265 Linear. I tested it, light burn in (Isotek) and again listened critically and I am very pleased. With all the studio oriented headphones I have a German Maestro will not fit in and I definitely have to reduce my collection. 

 

There are more brands like German Maestro, Philips for instance but Philips is more known for its consumer products so its headphones are usually underestimated. Pioneer and headphones, the same story as Philips yet with the twist that Pioneer is more known for DJ-gear.  

 

German Maesto, curiosity and necessity do not always mix...


Deep Funk, I see that you have a good number of vintage headphones!

I must admit that I do not know many, so if you have something to sell that you think is more adequate for me than the German Maestros, point me the name and I will be glad to make an ackowledgement search. :)

 

I'm still open to suggestions... however I must remind you that my inclination for the GMs, at this moment, is "just" the result of a long and persistent search (at least a year) for the best way to spend 600 Euros on a setup that strives for TRANSPARENCY above all. This search was carried in the most imparcial way.

 

The Yulong D100 (372 Euros) and one of the MB Quart/German Maestro cans (435s or 450 Pro) is right now my potentially most transparent setup. (There is the risk of failure here because I have not seen yet a report of this particular synergy)

 

I'm not saying that I searched absolutely everything absolutely everywhere so I'm not claiming that this is THE transparent setup, within the 600 Euros mark, based around a PC, there is always something better to be found, but right now, this is it for me.

 

Please keep that in mind.

 

I don't know if you are familiar with the MB Quart/German Maestro brand...

I'm no authority on it neither so I'll just link here a and here useful sources of information... I hope.

 

I challenge everyone to build a more transparent setup than mine with the same budget! :P


Edited by kkl10 - 12/30/10 at 3:20pm
post #48 of 356

Challenge?

 

Set up: CD690 + AU-217 I + K240 DF

 

I am on the look out for a more power amplifier with a cleaner headphone out and the transport is easily upgradable but with the DF this set up set me back about 130 euros and for the pure enjoyment alone I have no reason to complain. The DF still amazes me with its transparency and that quality will only improve with a better and more powerful set up.

 

You can stay under the 600 mark with a decent transport, vintage integrated and have money left for something like CA Dacmagic. If all works out you have change for possibly better cables, better power supply system etcetera...

 

P.S. My collection of vintage headphones is nothing. If I had the money I would have had more. Someone on Head-Fi has a collection of more than 400 headphones, electrodynamics if I am correct and old and new ones. The list is more than impressive...  


Edited by Deep Funk - 12/31/10 at 3:46am
post #49 of 356

I agree with Deep Funk about the DF. Was listening out of the LD mkV which cost $200 second hand and they are very transparent and natural sounding....  very 'true to life'...like listening to live music. I know it seems to offend some people, but to my ears anyway, and I'm only speaking for myself, they are much more enjoyable to listen to than the much more expensive k702. The 702 has more low bass, but other than that I would choose the DF in a heartbeat over those. They also sound damn good out of the meager amp in the emu 0404 usb. From all I've read I would imaging you can't go too far wrong with the German Maestro/MB Quarts either. There were two DF's on the U.S. ebay a couple of days ago.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep Funk View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiemen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep Funk View Post

German Maesto, curiosity and necessity do not always mix...


True. But there's a reason I have three MB Quart/German Maestro headphones, and sold my AKG's and Sennheisers.....  

My Beyer is heavily modded.

The German Maestro's have a rare combination of hi-fi quality and musicality to them. And a reasonable price to boot.

My DF cost me 60 euros and can sound extremely musical although it needs a good source and serious amplification to sound its best. The same applies for the big Philips. For the coming time I have to lose about 8 or 10 headphones and after that I can think of adding another headphone.    
 

post #50 of 356

I agree with the above posters that the K240 DF is a very good and enjoyable headphone.

Highly underrated here on Head-Fi.

If only they were more comfortable......

post #51 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep Funk View Post

Challenge?

 

Set up: CD690 + AU-217 I + K240 DF

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lejaz View Post

I agree with Deep Funk about the DF. Was listening out of the LD mkV which cost $200 second hand and they are very transparent and natural sounding....  very 'true to life'...like listening to live music. I know it seems to offend some people, but to my ears anyway, and I'm only speaking for myself, they are much more enjoyable to listen to than the much more expensive k702. The 702 has more low bass, but other than that I would choose the DF in a heartbeat over those. They also sound damn good out of the meager amp in the emu 0404 usb. From all I've read I would imaging you can't go too far wrong with the German Maestro/MB Quarts either. There were two DF's on the U.S. ebay a couple of days ago.
 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiemen View Post

I agree with the above posters that the K240 DF is a very good and enjoyable headphone.

Highly underrated here on Head-Fi.

If only they were more comfortable......


Very well then: Acknowledgement search on the AKG K240 DF started! :)

 

Please give me links with useful information about this can. (reviews, comparisons, sound descriptions, historic context, whatever...)

 

Regarding source and amplification I already have the Yulong D100 Dac/Amp. But I would actually like to know of other possibilities for this kind of setup:

PC - Dac - Headphone amp - Headphone. 600 Euros budget. NO MODDING.

 

By the way...

 

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE!

 

Thanks!

post #52 of 356


I'd say stick with the yulong for now. If my emu 0404 with only 25mW output can drive them well, your amp/dac may be sufficient. You can always upgrade at a later date. Remember, google is your friend! biggrin.gif as well as a forum search here. There should be quite a few threads where these are mentioned favorably.Happy New Year and happy listening!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep Funk View Post

Challenge?

 

Set up: CD690 + AU-217 I + K240 DF

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lejaz View Post

I agree with Deep Funk about the DF. Was listening out of the LD mkV which cost $200 second hand and they are very transparent and natural sounding....  very 'true to life'...like listening to live music. I know it seems to offend some people, but to my ears anyway, and I'm only speaking for myself, they are much more enjoyable to listen to than the much more expensive k702. The 702 has more low bass, but other than that I would choose the DF in a heartbeat over those. They also sound damn good out of the meager amp in the emu 0404 usb. From all I've read I would imaging you can't go too far wrong with the German Maestro/MB Quarts either. There were two DF's on the U.S. ebay a couple of days ago.
 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiemen View Post

I agree with the above posters that the K240 DF is a very good and enjoyable headphone.

Highly underrated here on Head-Fi.

If only they were more comfortable......


Very well then: Acknowledgement search on the AKG K240 DF started! :)

 

Please give me links with useful information about this can. (reviews, comparisons, sound descriptions, historic context, whatever...)

 

Regarding source and amplification I already have the Yulong D100 Dac/Amp. But I would actually like to know of other possibilities for this kind of setup:

PC - Dac - Headphone amp - Headphone. 600 Euros budget. NO MODDING.

 

By the way...

 

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE!

 

Thanks!


Edited by lejaz - 12/31/10 at 8:45am
post #53 of 356

Man, this AKG K240 DF is very interesting!

 

Can't believe how I missed it! I found out that I had already searched a bit for this headphone, but i was immediately turned away from it when I read that it needs serious amplification to sound it's best. I didn't get to read that this headphone was designed to conform to german standards for linear frequency response! (This was before I bought the Yulong D100 which has a pretty good headphone amplifier for a Dac/Amp combo!)

 

This can has very interesting sound descriptions, even some similarities to the GMP 450 Pro: great neutrality (probably even more since it is supposed to have a truly flat frequency response), good detail retreival, exceptional midrange, smooth sounding, pleasing to listen to, very balanced and competent treble, basslight, balanced, very polite sounding, transparent, midcentric, etc,...

 

This comparison between the AKG K240 DF and Beyerdynamic T1 made me seriously consider the austrian vintage has a candidate for my next purchase... now I'm torn between the AKG and the GMP... for the low price one can get it, it's impossible to overlook.

 

I still have some questions though. I would like that you guys and anyone else that has heard this headphone helped me out:

 

What is the level of sound resolution and refinement of the AKG K240 DF? I mean, is it comparable to a AKG K701, Beyerdynamic DT880? Or it is at the level of a Audio Technica M50 or Shure SRH840? Or is it superior to all of them and comparable to a Beyerdynamic DT48? I still didn't get this...

 

The weak bass reports do not please me. Is it more basslight than the K701? How can this headphone be truly neutral if it's basslight? Isn't it bright?

 

Is it's frequency extension on both ends good?

 

I still don't get if this headphone is closed or open... How is it's soundstage and imaging performance? Spatial cues resolution?

 

lejaz, how do you compare the K240 DF to the K701 and Beyerdynamic DT250 (I think you have heard this one right?)?

 

If I find it cheap enough, and considering that it's really as good as some reports make me think, I might get the K240 DF and one GMP and still be within my budget!

 

I'm afraid that this conversation is getting a bit of topic of this thread...

 

Thanks!


Edited by kkl10 - 1/1/11 at 3:10pm
post #54 of 356

I have tried many headphones but the DF is the most complete in presentation of the recording. Only two headphones really were better to my ears but then both had distinctive extremes. 

 

Regarding the 'weak bass', get the set up right for it depends on the source, amplification and your preferences. The DF is a bit of a difficult character and a lot of headphone users are - in my opinion - too prone to declare the characteristics of its 'sound' as bass light or weak (in the) bass. If there is one thing I learned through experimenting with set ups, test tracks and everything audio related to Head-Fi it is: you can only comment on something like a headphone (the extreme/outer audio component) in the set up (otherwise speakers) and be somewhat certain once you have gotten the most out of it.

 

A good/matching amplifier (who knows?) can free the lower bass notes. With 'light' amplification the DF is more mids-highs but with extra/'heavy' amplification the low end improves. My DF is powered by the built in amplifier in the CD690 and the pre-amplifier of the Sansui: that extra amplifier was effective. 

 

That brings me to something else. Some headphones are like chameleons and as such it is hard to pin point their characteristics of how they present the recording/track/piece etcetera and I have a few of those. It is so easy to underestimate such headphones that it happens very often, also on Head-Fi. Studio-oriented headphones along reference headphones sometimes have this 'chameleon characteristic'. 

 

I hope the German Maestro will be easier to work with.

post #55 of 356

The K240 DF is semi closed, it does leak and doesn't isolate.

Resolution and refinement is on par with the DT880 IMO.

I'm not a bass head, so the bass of the DF was fine with me. It's tuneful and fast. Just as I like it.

Soundstage and separarion is very good.

They are 600 ohm, so your amp has to handle this.

post #56 of 356

the k702 to has slightly better detail retrieval and treble and bass extension, but the DF wins for neutrality and realism, especially in the midrange. I don't have any problem with the bass for acoustic jazz....sounds very realistic to my ears....for hip hop or electronica it may not have enough, though. I would think it would be a significant step up from the m50 or the Shure, though I can't verify that by first hand experience.

post #57 of 356

@kkl10 - I forgot you asked about the dt250. The 240DF clearly outclasses those, IMO, and they ain't bad at all, but don't forget that they are closed

post #58 of 356

Two tracks I often use for bass:

Massive Attack's "Angel", quite handy for that purpose but other tracks from the album "Mezzanine" are good test tracks as well, others use this track too.

J. S. Bach's "Toccata and Fugue in D minor", the low notes of church organs (attend a concert!) are very hard to catch/present well, this track also demands transparency for the mids-highs.

 

Otherwise music with heavy percussion, didjeridus/didgridoos (Kate Bush's "The Dreaming") and tricky grooves (Kyuss for instance) is good for testing the lower end. I use this music for every headphone I have.  

 

The thing with bass is - very common - preferences. Do you prefer tight bass or a bit looser; do you want to hear the deepest bass notes (extension); do you want the bass notes to have extra impact (volume) or do you prefer to hear the bass as recorded (accurate bass)? In my opinion the bass extension of the DF sounds very smooth and with the added amplification the sub bass comes to life since it is already there yet lacking in presence (volume). The DF sounds more accurate (subjective, I know).

 

Have you listened to the German Maestro yet?

post #59 of 356

@Deep Funk-

Going from memory I'd say the k70X definitely has more low bass extension. Haven't tried any of the tracks you mentioned, but will try to do so later. With acoustic jazz I probably prefer the DF. Sounds more like the real thing to me....tighter and more 'true to life'. I'm not a bassist myself, but I played drums and guitar for a lot of years so I've heard my share of live bass. I know a forum member who likes the DF for electronica, but I've not done much critical listening to that genre. Will have a listen to that Massive Attack track later. BTW, I've had two sets of the 240DF and they sound a bit different. I think it's just as likely to be the pads as anything else...the pads and the fit. The fit, at least with closed phones, has a huge impact on how much bass you're going to get.

post #60 of 356

@Deep Funk

Just ran a brief test with Massive Attack's 'Angel' and it confirmed what I remembered... k702 is better with low bass. That's with my set up... YMMV

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