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Review: CharterOak Acoustics SP-1 (GMP 450 Pro) - Page 3

post #31 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiemen View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Hello fellow Headfiers!

 

I'm new here but have been hanging around looking for my first full sized headphone to pair with my Yulong D100.

I apologise for reviving this thread but it seemed to be the more apropriate place to post my questions.

 

After a long and pacient search and reading on Head-fi and other sites, I think that my final decision on my first full sized headphone will be one of these three German Maestro sets:

 

GMP 400

GMP 435s

GMP 450 Pro

 

Unless anyone changes my mind, it will probably be the 450 Pro. I have some critical questions though...

 

1. Is it possible to replace earpads on the 450 Pro?

2. I still don't get one thing... is the GMP 450 Pro bass light or not? (I'm no basshead I want balanced sound)

 



This thread can also be of some help: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/404143/compared-three-germanmaestro-headphones-previously-mb-quart


Thanks Tiemen! I have read that thread already... actualy I think I've read all threads on Head-fi where the MB Quart or German Maestro headphones are mentioned, lol...

There aren't many of them anyway... it's hard to get information about these headphones...

 

EDIT: Oh... I just reread that thread again and I see that JensL did get to actualy try to fit some DT770 earpads on the 450 Pro.

So this means that it is actualy possible to replace the earpads... Thanks!

 


Edited by kkl10 - 12/26/10 at 12:26pm
post #32 of 356

I believe that the pads are changeable, though I don't try it personally.

 

My impression of GMP400 is largely based on the side by side comparison with GMP450pro.

GMP400 has a more boomy sound than GMP450pro.

I don't know if that qualify bass heavy.

To me this is critical for choosing GMP450pro over GMP400.

GMP450pro has better controlled bass, you can clearly find any detail without bass dominating, which is good for classical music.

For example, in the second movement of Mahler's symphony No.1 (Bernstein 1988) GMP400 fail to show how gorgeous the string is due to its relatively boomy bass than GMP450pro.

The presentation of the low end of strings are relatively muddy than what's in GMP450pro.

 

That said, I agree that GMP450pro's bass is not as deep as phones like Grado GS-1000, but I think it is adequate for acoustic music.

It is until l listen to http://www.amazon.com/Marsh-Moon-Hybr-I-Ching/dp/B00014X8EK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293402978&sr=1-1 (Chesky's hi-end recording with Chinese instruments mixed in) I start to wonder where goes the deep bass with GMP450pro.

Yet I won't complain too much because of its very smooth hi and mid...

 

I wish I had more time to audit GMP435s though..

The short impressions are good, but I didn't put them on my main set for serious audition.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpearce View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Hello fellow Headfiers!

 

I'm new here but have been hanging around looking for my first full sized headphone to pair with my Yulong D100.

I apologise for reviving this thread but it seemed to be the more apropriate place to post my questions.

 

After a long and pacient search and reading on Head-fi and other sites, I think that my final decision on my first full sized headphone will be one of these three German Maestro sets:

 

GMP 400

GMP 435s

GMP 450 Pro

 

Unless anyone changes my mind, it will probably be the 450 Pro. I have some critical questions though...

 

1. Is it possible to replace earpads on the 450 Pro?

2. I still don't get one thing... is the GMP 450 Pro bass light or not? (I'm no basshead I want balanced sound)

 

To Joelpearce:

How would you compare the overal sound (particularly interested on midrange description) of these three headphones?

 

GMP 450 Pro (I know you no longer own the Charteroaks but you seem to be the only one who has owned these three cans to compare)

Beyerdynamic DT 48 ( Possibly interested in these but can't find it cheap)

Fostex T50RP

 

By the way, more comparisons or impressions are always welcomed.

 

Any aditional information will be much appreciated, thank you!


It is possible to replace the pads on all of these headphones--the pads are the same shape as Beyerdynamic 770/880/990 pads, though pad rolling usually results in a huge lack of bass.

 

They are, indeed, bass light.  The bass that's there sounded good, but there just wasn't enough for me.  It is probably good for music mixing and listening to, say, acoustic music and jazz.  That said, I can't recommend them for rock, pop, orchestral music or electronica.  The bass simply doesn't have much punch.  Of course, none of the other ones you listed really do either.

 

To compare those three, the GMP 450 Pro is highly musical, easy to listen to, and has a nice wide airy soundstage.  They are midcentric, but have nice clear highs as well.  They are also extremely comfortable, though they don't feel especially durable.

 

The DT48 comes from a completely different universe.  They are extremely precise audio tools, and the midrange is truly unparalleled.  With them, you hear absolutely everything that's in the recording, whether you want to hear it or not.  They are also fairly light on bass, and also roll off a bit at the top end.  They are significantly heavier and less comfortable, though they could probably survive anything you would put them through.

 

The Fostex T50RP is an ortho, so you're looking at a totally different technology.  Stock, they are much darker than the other two--they are detailed, but they have a warmth that the others don't have.  They have a well-balanced sound spectrum as well, though I found stock they sounded just a little bit "off"--they didn't play as coherently as the other two.  With some modding, they can be turned into almost anything you could want, but if you're not after bass, other orthos might be a better choice.

 

I hope that helps.


Thank you very much for your attention joelpearce!

 

Would you say that for someone who can accept the sound of the Head Direct RE0 IEM, the Charteroaks would have a reasonable amount of bass?

 

Did you actually replace the earpads on the Charteroaks? Or did you at least get to take off the stock ones?

 

I ask you this because, a couple of weeks ago, I had the oportunity to hear (in non optimal conditions) and compare head-to-head the MB Quarts QP 450 and 400 and I liked more the sound of the QP 450 which, from what I've read, is the same as the German Maestro GMP 450 Pro. They use the same earpads but I still don´t know if they sound exactly the same... so being able to switch earpads is very important to me. Curiously I found out that the MB Quarts QP 400 sounds nothing like the descriptions I've read for the German Maestro GMP 400 sound, it's actualy the complete opposite...

 

Oh, one more thing.

Tonal accuracy and detail retrival... how would you rank those three headphones(Charteroak, Fostex and Beyer)... and others that you've heard or owned, if possible...

Okay just skip the Beyerdynamic DT48...

 

Is there anyone else that has heard the GMP 450 Pro? More input please!

 

stokitw?!!

 

Thanks!


Edited by stokitw - 12/27/10 at 10:29am
post #33 of 356

Thanks alot for your input stokitw!

 

 

Did you find that the GMP 400 was able to hit lower notes than the GMP 450 Pro?

I read that the sound of the GMP 400 balances out if the earpads are replaced by the ones that are perforated,

and by doing that it becomes clear that it is technically superior to the GMP 435s...

 

If only apatN had the GMP 450 Pro on hand at the time...

 

stokitw, do you  find the GMP 450 Pro very hard to drive or very picky about amplification?

 

And could you give me a brief description (or long if you are willing to) on how your Grado GS 1000 and German Maestro GMP 450 Pro compare to eatch other, soudwise? (I'm particularly interested on tonal accuracy)

 

I know that they belong to two diferent worlds but I'm interested to know if any clear flaw in the sound of the German Maestro GMP 450 Pro can be identified this way. The lack of real low bass isn't really a turn of for me... I'm going to buy the headphones primarily to listen to music. I listen to all kinds of music. I'm a very ecclectic music lover...

 

Later, though, I do intent to make some sonic experimentations with some audio programming languages and start to create some audio stuff...

 

Thanks!


Edited by kkl10 - 12/26/10 at 3:53pm
post #34 of 356

From my audition, I think the ability of lower end reproduction is similar between GMP400 and GMP450pro.

I don't think they will give you earth shattering low.

The relative loose bass of GMP400 is probably caused by the velour pad, but I don't know how different pads works in terms of sound..

 

I cannot comment too much about amplification, since I got GMP450pro after my main gear being set(i.e. Grace Design m902).

The story is that I got a chance to get GMP phones in decent price, so I bring my m902 to audition and finally decided to get GMP450pro.

I don't even bother to try GMP450pro on my office setup because it sounds that good to stay at home.

I can get reasonable volume from my portable source (Cowon D2), although I know the performance can be better.

It is not as hard to drive as Beyerdynamic DT990 600ohm, and it sounds better than DT990 while adequately amped in my opinion.

(I tried some other phones on other systems.)

 

The key is that I have GS-1000, a detail freak.

And sometimes, the beauty of the music hides in those details.

DT990 somehow loses the detail especially in some small scale works since it has the tendency to enlarge the soundstage.

GMP450pro, on the other hand, preserve those details partly thanks to its very loose closed back design..

The energy of sound is concentrated in the mean time does not create a boomy sound within the closed air room.

(GS-1000 simply gives you a lot of power with its totally open design..)

Therefore, in terms of details, GMP450pro comes close to GS-1000 at a level where DT990, K702, or even GMP400 cannot match.

At the same time, GMP450pro is a little bit more forgiving since you can feel it is a closed back phone afterall (i.e. you can feel that sound is still filling up the room, compare to GS-1000 of course)

 

For example, Ivan Moravec's legendary Chopin Nocturnes is a great performance but not very well recorded.

GS-1000 shows both that it is not very well recorded and Moravec's magical touch in the tone.

GMP450pro can gives you a smooth sound with hints about Moravec's magical touch.

DT990 smooths out the sound too much and fails to show why Moravec is so special.
With GMP450pro, I am confident with the sound that I don't have to shift to GS-1000 to get the definite answer for critical listening.

 

My biggest complaint to GMP450pro is fatigue. (I don't know if GMP400 or GMP435s can address that since I don't own either of them....)

Even with carefully adjusted volume, I cannot listen to large scale works with GMP450pro continuously for more than a whole CD. (make it 2 CD if you're talking about long work like Mahler or Bruckner.)

Yeah, I know it is not healthy to listen to music for couple hours..

The fact is, I can stay with GS-1000 for hours but not with GMP450pro.

However, GMP450pro compliments GS-1000 in my room since there are times that faint background noise (e.g. laptop cooling pad, etc.) presents which GS-1000 cannot perform in peak thanks to its completely open design..

Also, it does not sound like crap with portable source (I used it when walking on a (quiet) local trail, the sound is good enough~~)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

Thanks alot for your input stokitw!

 

 

Did you find that the GMP 400 was able to hit lower notes than the GMP 450 Pro?

I read that the sound of the GMP 400 balances out if the earpads are replaced by the ones that are perforated,

and by doing that it becomes clear that it is technically superior to the GMP 435s...

 

If only apatN had the GMP 450 Pro on hand at the time...

 

stokitw, do you  find the GMP 450 Pro very hard to drive or very picky about amplification?

 

And could you give me a brief description (or long if you are willing to) on how your Grado GS 1000 and German Maestro GMP 450 Pro compare to eatch other, soudwise? (I'm particularly interested on tonal accuracy)

 

I know that they belong to two diferent worlds but I'm interested to know if any clear flaw in the sound of the German Maestro GMP 450 Pro can be identified this way. The lack of real low bass isn't really a turn of for me... I'm going to buy the headphones primarily to listen to music. I listen to all kinds of music. I'm a very ecclectic music lover...

 

Later, though, I do intent to make some sonic experimentations with some audio programming languages and start to create some audio stuff...

 

Thanks!

post #35 of 356

 

What a nice mini comparison you just gave me there! I appreciate it.

 

I didn't really think that the GMP 450 Pro could be driven by portable sources to a reasonable volume, nice!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by stokitw View Post

 


DT990 somehow loses the detail especially in some small scale works since it has the tendency to enlarge the soundstage.

GMP450pro, on the other hand, preserve those details partly thanks to its very loose closed back design..

The energy of sound is concentrated in the mean time does not create a boomy sound within the closed air room.

(GS-1000 simply gives you a lot of power with its totally open design..)

Therefore, in terms of details, GMP450pro comes close to GS-1000 at a level where DT990, K702, or even GMP400 cannot match.

At the same time, GMP450pro is a little bit more forgiving since you can feel it is a closed back phone afterall (i.e. you can feel that sound is still filling up the room, compare to GS-1000 of course)

 

For example, Ivan Moravec's legendary Chopin Nocturnes is a great performance but not very well recorded.

GS-1000 shows both that it is not very well recorded and Moravec's magical touch in the tone.

GMP450pro can gives you a smooth sound with hints about Moravec's magical touch.

DT990 smooths out the sound too much and fails to show why Moravec is so special.
With GMP450pro, I am confident with the sound that I don't have to shift to GS-1000 to get the definite answer for critical listening.

 


I'm quoting a part of your narrative that I would like you to explain just a little better... actualy I think that it has to do with what I was just about to ask you on a new reply:

 

Does the GMP 450 Pro show any signs of compression, boxiness, or ressonance in it's sound duo to it's closed back design? This is something that I was able to identify in my audition of the MB Quart QP 450, although only very slightly. These shortcoming were the only thing I realy disliked about it's sound, but I was only able to tell that by comparing it with the QP 400.

 

For example, when you say:

 

"At the same time, GMP450pro is a little bit more forgiving since you can feel it is a closed back phone afterall (i.e. you can feel that sound is still filling up the room, compare to GS-1000 of course)"

 

Are you saying that there is actualy some trace of those shortcomings of the closedback design that I just mentioned?

Or are you just saying that there is less air on the room compared to the GS-1000?

Do you still think that the GMP 450 Pro  sounds very much like an open headphone? I have read this description numerous times and it's one of the things that most attract me to this headphone...

 

Some other things by the way:

 

Did you note any change on the GMP 450 sound through all this months that you've owned it?

Do you consider the GMP 450 Pro a more transparent and balanced headphone than the AKG K702? And which of them has better extension on lows and highs?

Do you consider the GMP 450 Pro superior to the AKG only in detail retrieval? How would you compare them soundwise?

 

Sorry for so many questions... You seem to be the only one with the headphone I most want right now...

It sells in a store that is just 1 hour away from my house and it costs 'only' 180 Euros... so tempting...

 

Thanks!

 

 

post #36 of 356

 

MORE INPUT PLEASE!

 

joelpearce?!!

oqvist?!!

apatN?!!

 

WHERE ARE YOU GUYS?!!!!

 

OQVIST! if you please...

 

Between the GMP 435s and the 450 Pro which one is superior to the other?

Were they to similar besides the differences on bass and midrange that you already mentioned?

Does the GMP 435s have much more bass or slightly more than 450 Pro?

Which of them is the most transparent or neutral?(Taking on account that you replaced the pads on the 435s)

What about tonal accuracy?

Did the GMP 450 Pro show any signs of the shortcomings inerent to a closed back design headphone? (Compression, ressonance, lack of air or breath,...)

 

APATN! if you please...

 

Could you please explain in more detail how the GMP 400 with the opened back earpads compared to the 435s and Beyerdynamic DT880?

That is if you still remember of course...

 

None of these three phones is in stock right now at my local store so I can't make an audition...

 

Any aditional information will be much appreciated.

Thanks!

 

EDIT: 1 more hour and I'm going to bed!


Edited by kkl10 - 12/27/10 at 2:07pm
post #37 of 356

Hear you. It´s been way to long since I last heard the 400/450 Pro or even the 435S. The 435S sounded the most neutral of the bunch on my old system whatever that was. I still have them you could buy mine if you want. No real need for them having the LCD-2 and AD700 as new toy for open headphones. Has some spare earpads you could try with it as well if so.

 

The 435S with it´s stock ear pads did have a better bass extension and overall more bass than the 450 Pro though they are no benchmark in term of bass extension. I also want to remember 435S to be a bit dryer sounding than the 450 Pro. . For classical I would take the 450 Pro anyday. It just has a really juicy mid range that was very appealing and the ev lack of sub bass just seemed to make the music flow better.

 

As for fatigue I didn´t notice that much. The 450 Pro is from what I remember the least forgiving of the bunch regarding sibilance and it´s also the brightest but not to the point causing ill comfort for me. The only slightly fatiguing thing for the 435S primarily since it has the widest soundstage of the bunch is that it´s just that. To wide horizontally and lacking in vertical depth.

 

I suppose I have mentioned this but I have experimented quite a bit with different ear pads on the 435S and it alter the tonal balance a lot. You can get it really bright with the right earpads. Perhaps even brighter then the 450 Pro. I haven´t been able to A-B them so can´t say honestly. But new pads or not I still  want to remember the 450 Pro was more musical with classical so if that is your primary genre that would be my recommendation from audio memory. Otherwise get my 435S and experiment ;).

 

As for isolation I don´t remember the 450 Pro isolate anything at all so I did rule out that factor when comparing the German Maestros alltogether. 450 Pro sounded like an open headphone to me

post #38 of 356

Does the GMP 450 Pro show any signs of compression, boxiness, or ressonance in it's sound duo to it's closed back design? This is something that I was able to identify in my audition of the MB Quart QP 450, although only very slightly. These shortcoming were the only thing I realy disliked about it's sound, but I was only able to tell that by comparing it with the QP 400.
 

Well, it's pretty high task to be less boxiness than a Grado.

Within the category of closed back phones, GMP450pro counts as a very open one.

Even some very hi-end closed back I audited like ED9 ED8 are not that "open" as a pair of closed back phones.

The reason is pretty simple, the fit is very loose and comfortable so that it only provides weak isolation..

Compare to GS-1000, yes, you can feel it as a closed back phone. (I think this is a very high standard....)

However, GMP450pro manages the sound very wisely so you can compare it to some other open phones other than Grado..

Because of its clean presentation of details, you will have an very airy feeling within its class of phones.

You can feel a boundary of the headstage, which is reasonable and very well controlled.

This is really not a problem for classical music since majority of them are indoor recording.

Comparatively speaking, GS-1000 simply shows where the boundary is without claiming there is boundary, GMP450pro has a pretty high upper limit yet very reasonable, DT990 sometimes blurs the boundary of the room, and closed back phones like AKG271s will have smaller soundstage.

 

For example, the following reissue of Turina's orchestral works:

http://www.amazon.com/Turina-Orchestral-Music-Joaquin/dp/B001F0TSIE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1293515616&sr=8-4

The recording is somewhat upfront, it makes gives boomy trouble for closed back phones.

GMP450pro manages it very beautifully.

 

I audited K702 long before, I like it.

It does try to make some reverabration to make sound sweeter, which is still in acceptable range.

However, I cannot answer if I'll pick it over GMP450pro without further audition..

 

All I can say is that I'm somewhat confident with the sound from both of them for critical listening.

To me, the phones for critical listening has to be able to show the cross-section difference across recording without stressing too much on its sound signature.

Lower models of Grado are good for details but the sound is crowded, it's not until GS-1000 that Grado provides a reasonable solution for most kind of works.

DT990 dilutes the soundstage for every recordings, yet T1 finally addresses that issue.

K702 does a little bit the similar thing but still good for small scale works.

GMP450pro has its own room (or soundstage) definition for sure, but that's not dominating over different recordings.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkl10 View Post

 

What a nice mini comparison you just gave me there! I appreciate it.

 

I didn't really think that the GMP 450 Pro could be driven by portable sources to a reasonable volume, nice!


I'm quoting a part of your narrative that I would like you to explain just a little better... actualy I think that it has to do with what I was just about to ask you on a new reply:

 

Does the GMP 450 Pro show any signs of compression, boxiness, or ressonance in it's sound duo to it's closed back design? This is something that I was able to identify in my audition of the MB Quart QP 450, although only very slightly. These shortcoming were the only thing I realy disliked about it's sound, but I was only able to tell that by comparing it with the QP 400.

 

For example, when you say:

 

"At the same time, GMP450pro is a little bit more forgiving since you can feel it is a closed back phone afterall (i.e. you can feel that sound is still filling up the room, compare to GS-1000 of course)"

 

Are you saying that there is actualy some trace of those shortcomings of the closedback design that I just mentioned?

Or are you just saying that there is less air on the room compared to the GS-1000?

Do you still think that the GMP 450 Pro  sounds very much like an open headphone? I have read this description numerous times and it's one of the things that most attract me to this headphone...

 

Some other things by the way:

 

Did you note any change on the GMP 450 sound through all this months that you've owned it?

Do you consider the GMP 450 Pro a more transparent and balanced headphone than the AKG K702? And which of them has better extension on lows and highs?

Do you consider the GMP 450 Pro superior to the AKG only in detail retrieval? How would you compare them soundwise?

 

Sorry for so many questions... You seem to be the only one with the headphone I most want right now...

It sells in a store that is just 1 hour away from my house and it costs 'only' 180 Euros... so tempting...

 

Thanks!

 

 


Edited by stokitw - 12/29/10 at 7:29am
post #39 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by oqvist View Post

Hear you. It´s been way to long since I last heard the 400/450 Pro or even the 435S. The 435S sounded the most neutral of the bunch on my old system whatever that was. I still have them you could buy mine if you want. No real need for them having the LCD-2 and AD700 as new toy for open headphones. Has some spare earpads you could try with it as well if so.

 

The 435S with it´s stock ear pads did have a better bass extension and overall more bass than the 450 Pro though they are no benchmark in term of bass extension. I also want to remember 435S to be a bit dryer sounding than the 450 Pro. . For classical I would take the 450 Pro anyday. It just has a really juicy mid range that was very appealing and the ev lack of sub bass just seemed to make the music flow better.

 

As for fatigue I didn´t notice that much. The 450 Pro is from what I remember the least forgiving of the bunch regarding sibilance and it´s also the brightest but not to the point causing ill comfort for me. The only slightly fatiguing thing for the 435S primarily since it has the widest soundstage of the bunch is that it´s just that. To wide horizontally and lacking in vertical depth.

 

I suppose I have mentioned this but I have experimented quite a bit with different ear pads on the 435S and it alter the tonal balance a lot. You can get it really bright with the right earpads. Perhaps even brighter then the 450 Pro. I haven´t been able to A-B them so can´t say honestly. But new pads or not I still  want to remember the 450 Pro was more musical with classical so if that is your primary genre that would be my recommendation from audio memory. Otherwise get my 435S and experiment ;).

 

As for isolation I don´t remember the 450 Pro isolate anything at all so I did rule out that factor when comparing the German Maestros alltogether. 450 Pro sounded like an open headphone to me


Indeed, time has walked quite a bit since you posted your impressions on the German Maestros. I appreciate your effort oqvist!

 

I see that you are selling your GMP 435s for 180 euros...

Thanks for the offer but I can get it cheaper on my local store :P

 

It's interesting... my dilemma between the 435s and 450 Pro came, in part, from your early impressions of the two headphones:

 

Sound signature wise I want transparency, neutrality, balance, accuracy all along the frequency spectrum (above all midrange), high resolution, capability of reproducing realistic spacial cues,...

 

I want to be able to hear the sources sound signature... I don't want interference of the headphone on the incoming sound signature of the source...

Indeed a transparent can, with no souns signature of it's own, is what I need.

 

But, if possible, I want the sense of musicality to pass through the headphone, I dont want a boring, dry, sterille sound...

 

Being aware that there is no such perfect (my ideal) headphone in existence, within my budget of 230 Euros, I spent months and months searching and reading, not only Head-fi, but inoumerous other headphone or audio related websites and forums from all over, for the closest thing that didn't require a heavy duty mod... to much hassle :P

 

The German Maestros were the closest things that I found. In fact they seem to be relatively popular among the chinese and russian audiophiles and headphone enthusiasts who regard these headphones as some of the most accurate and true to life money can buy... serious!

 

The 435s should be the choice from the descriptions I have read...

more balanced and neutral than the GMP 450 Pro and GMP 400(with stock pads), relatively transparent, but it doesn't seem to be technically as capable as the other two when proprerly amplifieds.

Your description of it's sound being boring and dryer than the GMP 450 Pro matches with other descriptions I've read and seems to be the a simple result of technical inferiority.

 

About the GMP 450 Pro, I've read that they have an extremely competent midrange and high tonal resolution(tonal accuracy), which I think correlates with what you and joelpearce so flatteringly about the midrange. I've read also that it sounds like an open headphone (I have a hard time to believe this), that it sounds bright, midcentric, balanced, transparent, highly analitycal, highly musical, sometimes cold, smooth, harsh in the highs, narrow,... some incompatible descriptions coexist with this headphone...

 

The 450 Pro has been compared to all kinds of high end cans and I have yet to see someone identifying a clear flaw in it's sound....

 

So bottom line:

Should I make a safe bet and go for the 435s getting the most balanced, neutral, all around, unpretensious sound possible, at the sacrifice of refinement and greater musicality enjoyment?

 

Or should I take my chances with the possibly cantankerous, but technically superior, GMP 450 Pro, for a possibly greater musicality enjoyment without the sacrifice of transparency, accuracy, realism?

 

And to complicate the equation I still don't know how the GMP 400 sounds with the opened back earpads in comparison...


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stokitw View Post

Does the GMP 450 Pro show any signs of compression, boxiness, or ressonance in it's sound duo to it's closed back design? This is something that I was able to identify in my audition of the MB Quart QP 450, although only very slightly. These shortcoming were the only thing I realy disliked about it's sound, but I was only able to tell that by comparing it with the QP 400.
 

Well, it's pretty high task to be less boxiness than a Grado.

Within the category of closed back phones, GMP450pro counts as a very open one.

Even some very hi-end closed back I audited like ED9 ED8 are not that "open" as a pair of closed back phones.

The reason is pretty simple, the fit is very loose and comfortable so that it only provides weak isolation..

Compare to GS-1000, yes, you can feel it as a closed back phone. (I think this is a very high standard....)

However, GMP450pro manages the sound very wisely so you can compare it to some other open phones other than Grado..

Because of its clean presentation of details, you will have an very airy feeling within its class of phones.

You can feel a boundary of the headstage, which is reasonable and very well controlled.

This is really not a problem for classical music since majority of them are indoor recording.

Comparatively speaking, GS-1000 simply shows where the boundary is without claiming there is boundary, GMP450pro has a pretty high upper limit yet very reasonable, DT990 sometimes blurs the boundary of the room, and closed back phones like AKG271s will have smaller soundstage.

 

For example, the following reissue of Turina's orchestral works:

http://www.amazon.com/Turina-Orchestral-Music-Joaquin/dp/B001F0TSIE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1293515616&sr=8-4

The recording is somewhat upfront, it makes gives boomy trouble for closed back phones.

GMP450pro manages it very beautifully.

 

I audited K702 long before, I like it.

It does try to make some reverabration to make sound sweeter, which is still in acceptable range.

However, I cannot answer if I'll pick it over GMP450pro without further audition..

 

All I can say is that I'm somewhat confident with the sound from both of them for critical listening.

To me, the phones for critical listening has to be able to show the cross-section difference across recording without stressing too much on its sound signature.

Lower models of Grado are good for details but the sound is crowded, it's not until GS-1000 that Grado provides a reasonable solution for most kind of works.

DT990 dilutes the soundstage for every recordings, yet T1 finally addresses that issue.

K702 does a little bit the similar thing but still good for small scale works.

GMP450pro has its own room (or soundstage) definition for sure, but that's dominating over different recordings.

 

 

 

stokitw, do you agree with joelpearce when he says that the GMP 450 Pro is midcentric?

 

Thanks!
 

post #40 of 356

kkl10: maybe you should enter the European German Maestro loan program. I don't know if it's still going, but it should be worth the effort to shoot an email to German Maestro.

Then you can decide for your own, instead of relying on other people's opinion.

 

BTW: I doubt if the headphone you're looking for exists for under the 1.000,- Euro.


Edited by Tiemen - 12/29/10 at 1:34am
post #41 of 356

hmm is the 435S so cheap nowadays. I payed considerably more then that. It´s a really good question 450 Pro or the 435S I was always uncertain myself about these two :)

But surely ask if you can buy both and return the one you like the least. Doesn´t cost anything.

post #42 of 356

Very interesting thread, interesting brand too...

post #43 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiemen View Post

kkl10: maybe you should enter the European German Maestro loan program. I don't know if it's still going, but it should be worth the effort to shoot an email to German Maestro.

Then you can decide for your own, instead of relying on other people's opinion.

 

BTW: I doubt if the headphone you're looking for exists for under the 1.000,- Euro.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oqvist View Post

hmm is the 435S so cheap nowadays. I payed considerably more then that. It´s a really good question 450 Pro or the 435S I was always uncertain myself about these two :)

But surely ask if you can buy both and return the one you like the least. Doesn´t cost anything.



Apprecciate your advices Tiemen and oqvist,

 

Definitely listening to the headphones my self is the best way to assess their sound, but unfortunately the european loan program has ended according to this source. (first post)

 

Buying three headphones (I can't rule out the GMP 400) and keep one wouldn't be an option neither. I don't think the store would accept that...

 

I could however try to contact German Maestro in order to supply the store (oficial dealer), so that I could make an audition, but...

 

Instead of the German Maestros the store has MB Quarts (QP 450 Pro and QP 400) which I have already auditioned, in non optimal conditions unfortunately.

Right after making the audition i asked if it would be possible to bring the German Maestros but the reply was no.

Apparently the GMPs are handmade for each order of that store, making it costly for the Manufacturer or the Distributor to provide a product just for show off.

 

It just isn't clear if the German Maestros do sound exactly the same as the MB Quarts.

The information I could find about this matter is just not conclusive.

http://doctorhead.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6537

http://doctorhead.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=5017&start=45

 

If I get to know that they sound the same I think I will try to audition them again but with my new setup.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep Funk View Post

Very interesting thread, interesting brand too...


This German Maestro brand is just not very known,  few people own it's headphones and thus the rare sound descriptions provided by headfiers are very valuable.

 

I'm only going to by an headphone when I am absolutely shure that it will be the best decision, so there's plenty of time for stokitw to give me his hopefully sincere sound descriptions. :)

 

That is if stokitw isn't sick of me already... =/

 

m00hk00h?!! Where are you?!!

 

Edit: Forgot to mention this:

 

I don't think that the perfect headphone (according to my idealization) exists at all. As far as I know, all headphones have their own, non 100% proficient, way of reproducing sound.


Edited by kkl10 - 12/29/10 at 2:35pm
post #44 of 356

Well, the thing is I found a mint Sennheiser HD265 Linear. I tested it, light burn in (Isotek) and again listened critically and I am very pleased. With all the studio oriented headphones I have a German Maestro will not fit in and I definitely have to reduce my collection. 

 

There are more brands like German Maestro, Philips for instance but Philips is more known for its consumer products so its headphones are usually underestimated. Pioneer and headphones, the same story as Philips yet with the twist that Pioneer is more known for DJ-gear.  

 

German Maesto, curiosity and necessity do not always mix...

post #45 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep Funk View Post

 

German Maesto, curiosity and necessity do not always mix...



True. But there's a reason I have three MB Quart/German Maestro headphones, and sold my AKG's and Sennheisers.....  

My Beyer is heavily modded.

The German Maestro's have a rare combination of hi-fi quality and musicality to them. And a reasonable price to boot.

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