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Review of the Audio-Gd DAC-19 DF / MKIV - Page 4

post #46 of 128
Order placed now for the 19DSP. I have no use for balanced so the choice was quite simple in the end.
post #47 of 128
I have a dilemma here.. I'm about to order the Dac-19 DSP, and going to use the coaxial rca input with my Asus Xonar STX. Then i read that BNC has lower jitter..

So my question is: is it worth to custom order a DAC-19 with BNC and a Hiface BNC, instead of ordering the standard dac-19 from a UK dealer, (which is also more convenient for me), and use it directly with my STX?
post #48 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpnz View Post
I have a dilemma here.. I'm about to order the Dac-19 DSP, and going to use the coaxial rca input with my Asus Xonar STX. Then i read that BNC has lower jitter..

So my question is: is it worth to custom order a DAC-19 with BNC and a Hiface BNC, instead of ordering the standard dac-19 from a UK dealer, (which is also more convenient for me), and use it directly with my STX?
In my experience with the dac19mk3 (which I ordered with both BNC and RCA), the difference between the 2 inputs is minimal.
A change of the source (hiface vs other converters) or the digital cable will make more difference.
post #49 of 128
Could get an Asus Essence ST which also have a jitter clock?... But that maybe require you use it as a DAC??
post #50 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by oqvist View Post
Could get an Asus Essence ST which also have a jitter clock?... But that maybe require you use it as a DAC??
Well I just bought the HT Omega Claro Halo. I will be doing the BNC mod that les_garten did on his card.

I will swap the RCA Coax connector on the DAC-19DSP for a BNC instead.

I believe this will yeild optimal results as I do not want to be using a USB converter. There are just too many variables with jitter and conversion in general.
post #51 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk3383 View Post
Well I just bought the HT Omega Claro Halo. I will be doing the BNC mod that les_garten did on his card.

I will swap the RCA Coax connector on the DAC-19DSP for a BNC instead.

I believe this will yeild optimal results as I do not want to be using a USB converter. There are just too many variables with jitter and conversion in general.
That seems like a bit of a waste of time, especially with the DSP version. The DSP has an AMAZING ability to almost completely eliminate jitter, even a change of transport makes very little difference with it. With the DF version it could be more of an issue.
post #52 of 128
Thread Starter 
There are no reclockers on those sound cards, so there's not much point in using the coax out. They probably won't yield better results than a dedicated usb->spdif converter, although i'm just speculating. Someone who has tried both (slim.a, maybe?) might be able to comment on this?

Btw, it's been 2 days since i got the hiface. There are huge differences for string instruments, it sounds way more analog and organic with the hiface. With the USB, there's this honky sound i can't put my finger on. The deep bass is cleaned up nicely and tigher, i can see why some people see it as being a bright or thin sound, but i personally didn't feel that way.

Sound stage is clearer with much more focused imaging, obviously depending on what's being played.

Whether it's worth the money i paid for it... i can't say with certainty yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrolic View Post
That seems like a bit of a waste of time, especially with the DSP version. The DSP has an AMAZING ability to almost completely eliminate jitter, even a change of transport makes very little difference with it. With the DF version it could be more of an issue.
Hmm? If the DSP1 was that powerful, then the people with ref 1s shouldn't hear an improvement with the hiface, but if you went through the ref 1 thread, that's not the case.

edit: realized the last part didn't make sense so i took that out lol
post #53 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by noinimod View Post
There are no reclockers on those sound cards, so there's not much point in using the coax out. They probably won't yield better results than a dedicated usb->spdif converter, although i'm just speculating. Someone who has tried both (slim.a, maybe?) might be able to comment on this?

Btw, it's been 2 days since i got the hiface. There are huge differences for string instruments, it sounds way more analog and organic with the hiface. With the USB, there's this honky sound i can't put my finger on. The deep bass is cleaned up nicely and tigher, i can see why some people see it as being a bright or thin sound, but i personally didn't feel that way.

Sound stage is clearer with much more focused imaging, obviously depending on what's being played.

Whether it's worth the money i paid for it... i can't say with certainty yet.


Hmm? If the DSP1 was that powerful, then the people with ref 1s shouldn't hear an improvement with the hiface, but if you went through the ref 1 thread, that's not the case.

edit: realized the last part didn't make sense so i took that out lol
I have both BNC and RCA inputs in my dac19mk3 and I feel that choosing the right transport and digital cable are far more important for the final result.
If I were to give numbers and I rated the change in sound of BNC vs. RCA at 1x, the change in digital cable would be 10x and the change in the usb converter would be 20x.

As for the DSP1, there has been much said about its jitter rejection capability. According to Kingwa the DSP-1 is relatively immune to jitter but it is not immune to the quality of the transport.
Again, according to him there are other factors than jitter that differenciate transports. That is why people hear differences between transports with the REF1.
If you read the description in the audio-gd website, he says that the DSP-1 is less sensitive to transports but still, to get the best possible results, one has to use a high quality transport.

A little anecdote, I asked Kingwa a few months ago about the Ref-3 (which is de-jitter/recklocker device) to use with the dac19mk3. His answer was pretty surprising: he said that it would be overkill with the dac19mk3 and that it is better suited for the Ref-1.

That is to say that while the dac19dsp will probably provide great results even with a poor transport, it can provide an even greater performance with a good transport.
post #54 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk3383 View Post
Well I just bought the HT Omega Claro Halo. I will be doing the BNC mod that les_garten did on his card.

I will swap the RCA Coax connector on the DAC-19DSP for a BNC instead.

I believe this will yeild optimal results as I do not want to be using a USB converter. There are just too many variables with jitter and conversion in general.
I guess you totally ignored my earlier reply. Here you state again that you don't want to use USB to SPDIF converter because it's too complicated or there's too many variables. What kind of reason is that? Soundcard is just as complicated as USB to SPDIF converter. It's just inside your computer.

Well, do whatever you like.
post #55 of 128
Patu,

I apologize. I meant no disrespect.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but you have to be able to back it up, in this case I do not have any stone cold facts, dont think anybody does with regards to which setup is better.

I have no experience with USB to SPDIF converters and I should not be commenting on this topic.

No need to get upset bro, just a misunderstanding.
post #56 of 128
Great review noinimod...

I received my DAC-19DF earlier today. Just had a chance to unpack it after work. Will start running it in the morning.....

LP did not sound good?...lol...I'm a big fan, especially when I'm working...They always get me going....
post #57 of 128
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slim.a View Post
Again, according to him there are other factors than jitter that differenciate transports. That is why people hear differences between transports with the REF1.
If you read the description in the audio-gd website, he says that the DSP-1 is less sensitive to transports but still, to get the best possible results, one has to use a high quality transport.
If it's not jitter, then what is the difference between the transports? We all know jitter exists in many parts of the chain, not just at the DAC's receiving end. I know, and have heard for myself, the oustanding quality that is audio-gd, but there's just way too little information on what the DSP1, in Kingwa's implementation of it, does. Huge difference between what it can do, and what it really does.

Sure, it sounds good on paper with nice hardware specs, but in the end it's really the software that makes/breaks it. I'm not hatin' on the DSP1, don't get me wrong. I just don't think the DSP1 is some sort of miracle chip many people make it out to be


Quote:
Originally Posted by HeatFan12 View Post
Great review noinimod...

I received my DAC-19DF earlier today. Just had a chance to unpack it after work. Will start running it in the morning.....

LP did not sound good?...lol...I'm a big fan, especially when I'm working...They always get me going....
Congrats, i'm sure you'll have a blast. Keep us posted with the impressions.
Hehe, i've always had a soft spot for LP. They don't sound bad per se, just not as engaging as steely dan
post #58 of 128
For some reason I want to take Kingwa's word that the DSP is superior. He seems to be pretty modest when answering questions via email. However he remains steady that the DSP outpreforms the DF1704.
post #59 of 128
I've found Kingwa to be trustworthy when it comes to asking him about the performance of his gear. That being said, he is the only person using the Altera as a DAC DSP in this manner so outside of his Chinese customers and a few Head-fiers there hasn't been much experience with it or comparison of it.
post #60 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk3383 View Post
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but you have to be able to back it up, in this case I do not have any stone cold facts, dont think anybody does with regards to which setup is better.

I have no experience with USB to SPDIF converters and I should not be commenting on this topic.
I think Patu was just trying to help you take the best decision. While it is impossible to know for 100% certainty which solution will outperform the other before measuring and listening, there are ways to predict with high probability which one is likely to be the best solution (HT Omega Claro Halo vs. Hiface).

The HT Omega Claro Halo wasn't designed to be a transport only solutions so compromises must have been made in its design. For one, it seems to use only one clock. So in order to generate the 44.1 khz frequency on most music, that clock has to be derived which undoubtedly results in an increase of jitter. So even if you put an ultra low jitter clock inside, it will have to go through at least one PLL and it will also be affected by the noise inside the PC, the long traces in the PCB and the spdif connectors.
On the other hand you have a unit like the Hiface which has 2 true low jitter audio clocks (see the importance of true audio clocks here), which is async, which has bit perfect drivers, which has very short signal paths, which has a pulse transformer to galvanically isolate the computer from the dac, and most of all it was designed from the ground up to sound good as a transport.

If I remember correctly, Patu prefered the hiface to the Esi juli@ (which is a well regarded card with 2 true audio clocks). Also measurement shows that the Hiface is slightly better than the LynxTwo sound card (which is one of the best PCI pro sound cards).

So given that data, and if the quality as a transport is the only criteria, one can reasonably assume that the Hiface is a better choice than the HT Omega Claro Halo.

Of course, this just my personal opinion and only reflects the way (logic) I base my purchase decisions on.
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