Does Anyone Else Think The Stax 007 Has A Constricted Soundstage? - Page 4

I was visiting a friend in Blighty last week and was shown his Sennheiser 600's recabled with Cardas.  He was running an Arcam cd player and a Naim headphone amp.  I was struck by how open sounding this set-up was, with a wide soundfield.

So back State-side, I warm up my 007A/717 combination and ARRRRRRGGGHHH?  The same mediocre soundstage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilency 

Ed. I am stunned. You don't like your 007A???

 

I guess this rant is the same observation as I have made above in this thread.  But whereas previously I was prompted into these thoughts by a comparison with my defoamed Lambdas (i.e. with the foam behind the drivers removed)  this time I was quite shaken by how even an older dynamic could beat the Stax Flagship in this regard at least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose 

If soundstage is that important to you, you really need to try out the HD800. The HD6x0 just don't compare in that regard.

I have heard some good HD800 set-ups and they also had a good soundtstage.  However my friend's re-cabled HD600 was very good in a lot of ways including soundstage.  Not that I am planning to go dynamic anytime soon.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer 

I assume you've already switched the pads back to where they should be, with the seam pointing forwards?  Otherwise the soundstage will always be horrible...

That is correct.  However I can't say that I have ever found the pad orientation to have much effect on soundstage, but rather to affect the frequency response more .  I should do a another set of listenings .

I still think the problem is the case behind the 007 drivers.  It should be perforated  where it is solid metal.  My tape experiments with the Lambdas show that when you put this type of enclosure behind the Lambda drivers you get you give them the 007's combination of
compressed soundstage and some what muddy bass.

Is it possible to just take the back case off and still run the 007's that way?.  I would like to hear them, without the enclosure,  to check on what I think is wrong here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L 

Though I have my complaints about OII, mediocre soundstaging isn't one of them.  I still don't quite understand why headphones have to have soundstaging similar to speakers.  When I listen to my speakers, I enjoy them for what they are, including but not at all limited to the speaker soundstaging, which by the way has little correlation to how the band/singer "soundstaged" at the live venue/studio anyway.  

 

OII's "soundstage" (why even call it that?) sounds great to me, in line with what I expect from headphones, not detracting from the music at hand.  

 

How much is the "spring mod" supposed to fix the OII Mk2 problems anyway?  I'm talking about OII Mk1..

 

The term "soundstage" is a bit ambiguous.  I think it is a broader term than stereo imaging.  Mostly I think of it as the apparent width of the sonic image, but it also involves the ambience produced within the image.

I would certainly hope that headphones don't have  a soundstage like speakers.  The imaging aspect of the soundstage should be BETTER because of the absence of the spurious phantom channels created by speaker listening. Phones give you  a pure left or right channel sound, comparable to what your ears would get in a real-life listening experience.  Speakers feed both channels to both ears, messing up the spatial information, but don't get me started on this. 

The 007 has a somewhat small left-right spread of sound, compared to say my defoamed Lambdas and my friends re-cabled HD600.  The greater spread sounds more interesting and realistic to me.  By comparison with a live concert, a small soundstage would be more llike being at the back of the hall, large soundstage like being towards the front, where instruments of say, an orchestra would be spread out in front of you.

I realize that not everyone likes a wide soundstage, hence the popularity of channel blend-type controls which mix the channels together and will definitely shrink the apparent width of the sonic field.   This is often claimed to make headphone sound more speaker-like.  Some people evidently get dizzy or something with a wide soundfield and lots of instrumental separation.  I personally find it exciting, except in a few old recordings from the 50's and 60's where the channel separation information is exaggerated.(some Beatles, Credence Clearwater etc.)  I can only say to those who don't like a wide sound field,  try monaural sound using pre-stereo recordings or the L+R switch on your pre-amp (if it has this).

As regards the ideal soundstage, I don't feel that you get it with conventional phones,  even though you can get remarkable imaging.  I think the best soundstage is found in the Sigmas or the AKG K1000 which really do try to recreate a life-like soundfield by placing the drivers ahead of the ears.

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/464873/stax-sigmas-compared-low-bias-sigma-pro-and-sigma-404

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique 

I didn't think the 007MKII's soundstage is constricted, and in fact I found it very natural and detailed--to the point where I just couldn't care less about whatever soundstage concerns. Also, the mastering engineers have already decided how spacious a recording should sound with proper use of EQ and reverb, and if a recording was meant to sound spacious, it would've been mastered as so. To try to create fake soundstage when it didn't exist in the recording would be less than ideal to me.

 

Another reason soundstage is never a concern for me is because my main source is the computer, and I always use Isone Pro when I listen with headphones. I have my Isone Pro setup to sound very close to the positioning of my Klein + Hummel O 300D's in my studio, so basically all my headphones sound like speakers in an ideal room without problematic room modes.

The 007 is a master of detail, but soundstaging, in terms of openness is in my opinion, is somewhat restricted compared to the Lambda line, especially after the back foam is removed.   It will be interesting to see how the new Lambda 507 will stack up.