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Panasonic CZs (HJE900) Appreciation Thread and Pending Review - Page 2

post #16 of 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2410 View Post
i feel like im missing something with these
Such as the mids?

I feel like the vocalist is singing over his shoulder as he/she walks away from me.
post #17 of 872
Thread Starter 
I say the sound gets refined, and if you check the original threads most people seem to agree.

I find the mids to be pretty much perfectly balanced with the rest of the spectrum, although I did also find vocals a teensy recessed when I first got them. What did you have before? Perhaps they were mid-upfront headphones.

Try different tips.
post #18 of 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec E View Post
Such as the mids?

I feel like the vocalist is singing over his shoulder as he/she walks away from me.
well they are mid recessed, very but mostly its the bass i have issues with. its just so massive. they kinda remind me of the C751 but im just not feeling the love, that bass is just over my threshold i guess

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napilopez View Post
I say the sound gets refined, and if you check the original threads most people seem to agree.

I find the mids to be pretty much perfectly balanced with the rest of the spectrum, although I did also find vocals a teensy recessed when I first got them. What did you have before? Perhaps they were mid-upfront headphones.

Try different tips.
balanced???? you are joking right? these are total bass monsters. now there is nothing wrong or bad about that but lets not pretend that they anywhere near balanced
post #19 of 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2410 View Post
balanced???? you are joking right? these are total bass monsters. now there is nothing wrong or bad about that but lets not pretend that they anywhere near balanced
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
^ This is a subject for ongoing debate here on head-fi, flat frequency response versus what I call "lifelike frequency response". There are valid arguments for both and in the end it comes down to personal preference. I have both kinds of IEMs and catch myself preferring those with lifelike bass (feeling the air pressure of drums, the vibration of bass strings) more often, because they recreate the illusion of a live performance more convincingly for me.

With many bassier IEMs you have to trade more bass for less detail, and here's what I like about the HJE900: They can keep up in detail with flatter IEMs and deliver terrific kick drums at the same time.
Quoting myself from the HJE900 thread, because I don't want to type the same thing all over again. It's just a question of semantics, "balanced" as in flat frequency response versus "balanced" as in lifelike frequency response. No need to get excited IMO.

Having said that, even according to the latter standard, the Panas have a somewhat U-shaped sound sig out of the box. But foam-modded they are pretty close to "lifelike balance" to my ears.
post #20 of 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2410 View Post
well they are mid recessed, very but mostly its the bass i have issues with. its just so massive. they kinda remind me of the C751 but im just not feeling the love, that bass is just over my threshold i guess
I've personally never noticed recessed mids before, or at least it's something that's never bothered me. I had the TF10 for a long time, and everyone says its mids are recessed, don't they? But this is actually distracting.

I'm not really hearing the treble I'd read about. It's nothing remarkable, anyway.

Soundstage is decent. Isolation is pathetic, to the point of being a deal breaker. It's very weird to feel like you've gotten a perfect seal on the first try, and yet you can hear a relatively quiet conversation on the other side of the room.

I will say that they look rather good, and they're very easy to wear over the ear, contra some complaints.

I have one weird issue: It seems like my plug may be bent a bit. Doesn't matter, I suppose.

Quote:
balanced???? you are joking right? these are total bass monsters. now there is nothing wrong or bad about that but lets not pretend that they anywhere near balanced
That is my reply to pretty much every MTP Copper fan.

I would actually say the HJE900 has the least bothersome bass excess of any dynamic driver IEM I've yet tried. I have more general issues with it. My first thought was: There's something wrong with it. That's still my basic reaction whenever I listen to it at all analytically. It sounds to me like I've accidentally fiddled with the EQ, and everything's off. I'm someone who never touches an EQ.

Percussion seems to be this IEM's strong point, but again, the result is just weird. Listening to Massive Attack's Teardrop, the metronome is so ridiculously forward that it sounds like it's about to go solo.

...And another one bites the dust. Wonder if J&R will charge a restocking fee.
post #21 of 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
Quoting myself from the HJE900 thread, because I don't want to type the same thing all over again. It's just a question of semantics, "balanced" as in flat frequency response versus "balanced" as in lifelike frequency response. No need to get excited IMO.

Having said that, even according to the latter standard, the Panas have a somewhat U-shaped sound sig out of the box. But foam-modded they are pretty close to "lifelike balance" to my ears.
I couldn't agree more James. I think the distinction between flat/lifelike gets muddled too often in discussing 'balance'. I could care less how a signature looks on a graph if it doesn't sound like the world I live in.
post #22 of 872
oh im not saying balanced is an inherently good or desirable thing.

just saying these are V shaped, like many others are and many love.

oh and im not modding them, im a bit ocd about keeping things pristine
post #23 of 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec E View Post
...And another one bites the dust. Wonder if J&R will charge a restocking fee.
I think it depends on how you return them or at least that's the way it is made out to seem from their return policy. You can also try the FS threads to see if you can get close to the price you bought these for.

Quote:
Keep your purchase, accessories and all packing materials in new condition to avoid any restocking fees. <snip> All exchanged/ returned merchandise must be in original factory carton, including all packaging materials, inserts and manuals, warranty cards (not filled-out) and all accessories. Please do not tape or write anything on the item or the original manufacturer's carton. In some cases, we may charge you for the replacement of damaged, altered, missing, written-on or taped-on contents or cartons. We reserve the right to refuse any such items.
post #24 of 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec E View Post
I've personally never noticed recessed mids before ...

I'm not really hearing the treble I'd read about. It's nothing remarkable, anyway.

....

Isolation is pathetic, to the point of being a deal breaker. It's very weird to feel like you've gotten a perfect seal on the first try, and yet you can hear a relatively quiet conversation on the other side of the room.

....

I would actually say the HJE900 has the least bothersome bass excess of any dynamic driver IEM I've yet tried. I have more general issues with it. My first thought was: There's something wrong with it. That's still my basic reaction whenever I listen to it at all analytically. It sounds to me like I've accidentally fiddled with the EQ, and everything's off.
What tips are you using? Just asking, because I remember them sounding like this at some point. Though I don't remember the tips I was using then, maybe it was foamies. Anyway, there are what seem to be tiny vent holes where the nozzle is attached to the corpus (an unusual location), just make sure you don't accidentially cover these with the tips.
post #25 of 872
I was using the largest of the included single flange tips. Those fit right away and I actually don't even know what else was included, as I don't have the box with me at the moment.
post #26 of 872
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2410 View Post
well they are mid recessed, very but mostly its the bass i have issues with. its just so massive. they kinda remind me of the C751 but im just not feeling the love, that bass is just over my threshold i guess

balanced???? you are joking right? these are total bass monsters. now there is nothing wrong or bad about that but lets not pretend that they anywhere near balanced
To each his own =P. To me, their bass is just for the most part, with a bit of that midbass hump. Most things sound like the "should" sound to me. I'm almost wondering if you've accidentally turned on bass boost everytime you listen to them XD. Honestly, I've never considered myself a bass-head at all, but any less bass(overall) and I'd prolly be a bit dissapointed.

For massive bass, theres the sony XB series =P

As for balanced, you might have misread me, or I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean to say the whole spectrum these produce is balanced, but rather that mids feel "just right" in tune with the rest of the frequencies. I suppose "life-like" as james described, is the word. They are by no means balanced in terms of actual frequency response.


Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
Quoting myself from the HJE900 thread, because I don't want to type the same thing all over again. It's just a question of semantics, "balanced" as in flat frequency response versus "balanced" as in lifelike frequency response. No need to get excited IMO.

Having said that, even according to the latter standard, the Panas have a somewhat U-shaped sound sig out of the box. But foam-modded they are pretty close to "lifelike balance" to my ears.
Same stuff with balanced vs lifelike, and yes I do agree they sound quite U shaped out of the box, though I found just burning in flattened out the sound a bit. I'm also using sony hybrids, which slightly lessened the treble spike while warming up the overall sound. However, I preferred the overall sound sig of the original tips which I lost, so I have meelec UE style tips on the way, as per jokers suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec E View Post
I've personally never noticed recessed mids before, or at least it's something that's never bothered me. I had the TF10 for a long time, and everyone says its mids are recessed, don't they? But this is actually distracting.

I'm not really hearing the treble I'd read about. It's nothing remarkable, anyway.

Soundstage is decent. Isolation is pathetic, to the point of being a deal breaker. It's very weird to feel like you've gotten a perfect seal on the first try, and yet you can hear a relatively quiet conversation on the other side of the room.

I will say that they look rather good, and they're very easy to wear over the ear, contra some complaints.

I have one weird issue: It seems like my plug may be bent a bit. Doesn't matter, I suppose.



That is my reply to pretty much every MTP Copper fan.

I would actually say the HJE900 has the least bothersome bass excess of any dynamic driver IEM I've yet tried. I have more general issues with it. My first thought was: There's something wrong with it. That's still my basic reaction whenever I listen to it at all analytically. It sounds to me like I've accidentally fiddled with the EQ, and everything's off. I'm someone who never touches an EQ.

Percussion seems to be this IEM's strong point, but again, the result is just weird. Listening to Massive Attack's Teardrop, the metronome is so ridiculously forward that it sounds like it's about to go solo.

...And another one bites the dust. Wonder if J&R will charge a restocking fee.
I normally wouldn't reply, as everyone has their own ears and stuff, but this is an appreciation thread, not a "discourage people from buying thread" =P Just would like to say that those impressions mostly go against the large majority of impressions for these. I've only seen a small amount of posts complain about the mids being recessed. I mean people have mentioned it, but nowhere nearly as much as phones like the FX500 or TF10. But of course impressions from all sides of the opinion camp are important.

Comparing them side to side to quite mid forward Thinksound Rains, quite balanced(if laid back) PX200-IIs, and warmer sounding RX700s, I don't notice a recession of mids at all anymore while A/Bing, so I don't think it's just my ears getting used to them. I'll try again when I get the meelec tips, though even with my radioshack auvio tips which should theoretically sound more similar to those than the hybrids didn't give me any mid recession problems. My FC700s definitely sound more recessed.

Oh, the default tips suck for isolation. They won't ever be super isolating, but it's not that bad. But I'm not someone who wants super isolation anyways, I like being aware of my surroundings. I can listen to them on a rush hour NYC subway with no complaints.

How long did you have them for? Your impressions somewhat resembled my initial ones, though I quickly decided to let myself get used to the different sound.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
What tips are you using? Just asking, because I remember them sounding like this at some point. Though I don't remember the tips I was using then, maybe it was foamies. Anyway, there are what seem to be tiny vent holes where the nozzle is attached to the corpus (an unusual location), just make sure you don't accidentially cover these with the tips.
The vent thing is very true. I had issues stuffing tips with complies because of this, as often the foam would cover the holes, and the sound definitely seemed to suffer.
post #27 of 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by h20buzz View Post
Close your eyes and imagine yourself in a small intimate showroom with excellent acoustics watching one of your favorite performers. The guys at the board have the mix just right. The vocals are the centerpiece,clear and natural.. the sound of the rhythm section is very present, solid and tight, not muddy and in the way..the guitar and piano sound silky smooth. They break into one of your favorite songs and the hair on your neck stands up.

Congratulations, and welcome to my world with the HJE900's.
yeah, thats how I feel too. I always use these when listening to acoustic/vocal stuff and even close my eyes.
post #28 of 872
Out of curiousity, have any of you worth both the HJE900s and the Klipsch S4s? How do they compare in terms of comfort & isolation?

I've been hunting for my first IEM; I've tried a pair of S4s, and while I thought the sound was muddy, I thought they'd be quite comfortable given the right tips...something I hadn't experienced before with any earbud or earphone. I've been contemplating the HJE900s [over such phones as the PL-50, iM-590, RE0, and, to a lesser extent, the S4s], and wanted to be sure of a few things before I make a decision.
post #29 of 872
Thread Starter 
I haven't worn both, sorry, but I can help out a bit I hope. The HJE900s are quite comfortable for IEMs to me. I also have no issue wearing them over the ear(I actually think the long cable connctors/strain relief kind of help for this), but I prefer them under the ear most of the time. They don't go very dep in your ears because of the housing and stems, so I don't think you'll have comfort issues with that. As usual, wearing them over the ear allows for a deeper insertion and more secure fit. The default tips are nothing special, though they do give you a clean sound sig. I'm using sony hybrids, which are very comfortable, because I lost my originals, but have meelec tips on the way. Comply T400s worn backwards sound great and give you an excellent fit I lost those too though =[. If you use the t400s the normal way though, they kill all the sparkle of the treble for me(might be ear canal shape related). A plus about the housing not going in too deep, and the overall shape of the housing, is that unlike other IEMs, I have no fear of anything happening to my ears should I sleep with them(indeed I do most every night). They simply can't go deep enough to cause any damage, and the housing is short enough that I can rest on one side of my head without any discomfort. Not quite flush, but not nearly as bad as some other IEMs.

Isolation on these is average. I prefer it this way though, I don't like hyper isolation, as I prefer to not be hit by cars.

I think you'll be happy with the HJEs over all of those you mentioned, though i have no experience with them. The PL-50 are supposed to be hyper comfortable though.
post #30 of 872
If I want isolation, I just use complys. Normally Sony Hybrids though.. I actually have a set of complys in the case for when I'm on public transport or something. Most of the time the hybrids are fine and as an advantage people at work can actually get my attention without standing in front of my desk and waving. (Always awkward..)

My M6s definitely had better isolation though.

The soundstage on these have improved dramatically since I got them, I had the enjoyable experience of an instrument appearing about 3 feet to the left of where I thought the soundstage ended on a massive attack track last night (after seeing them live on tuesday ) and then sweeping in to merge with the rest of the track. The instruments separate clearly and position well.

Depending on the style of music sometimes I actually use a bass boost eq, I don't find the quantities of bass overwhelming at all. Not after my old sennheisers anyway - which incidentally sound broken to me now. The highs are comparatively so unclear and in some cases almost distorted, I can't believe that's what I thought the songs sounded like!

Vocals aren't forward, and I use a vocal booster eq for some band music - stuff like led zepplin, where the already slightly thin voice needs help. I don't mind and they respond well, but I guess that would be an indication to not get these if that's the style of music you listen to exclusively and you don't like EQing. Mind you, the vocals are perfectly discernible and I rarely feel they're missing anything - I've only used the EQ a couple of times.
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