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post #5851 of 5995

Just put "i.imgur.com/NofKLkn.jpg" for the URL without the HTTP part.

 

post #5852 of 5995
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcandmar View Post
 

Just put "i.imgur.com/NofKLkn.jpg" for the URL without the HTTP part.

 

 

Thanks for the help. I have tried any number of ways to my previous post using your advice, but have had no luck. I guess I'll be satisfied with having my Crack in the your quote for now.

post #5853 of 5995

Looks nice. Is the base varnished or polished?

post #5854 of 5995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquah View Post
 

Looks nice. Is the base varnished or polished?

I believe it is a varnish, although the description states it to be a wood stain. http://www.biopin.com/wohnraumlasur.html for the description in English. It uses linseed oil and wood oil, so I assume this would make it a varnish. However, first time I did something like this, so don't take my word on it.

 

The Blumenstein Chocolate Orcas were the inspiration, and after unsuccessfully trying to import Tried & True varnish to Europe, I found a German company that makes an all-natural stain / varnish.

 

The colour turned out quite well, although I believe I could improve future bases. Sanded initially with a 120 grit and then I used a brush to apply a pretty thick layer, did not wipe off any excess and just let it dry. I would then rotate between the sides doing a long and a short side per day. Between each coat, I would sand using 240 grit, but I just gave it a quick once over. Applied 5 coats in total, and the last coat was lightly ?brushed? with steel wool. However, I did not really see it making a difference initially, so stopped the process as I did not want to be in a position where I needed to apply another coat. On closer inspection, there are definite brush-marks on the base, but you need to look pretty closely to see them.

 

I will be ordering a Quickie and Quicksand today, and would like to improve the finishing of the 2 new bases. Thus, I have some questions which I would appreciate if someone could answer:

 

1. Will wiping any excess with paper towel get rid of the brush-marks? Is it necessary do this at the initial stages as well? I like the dark brown, and I could be mistaken, but will wiping off the excess lead to a lighter stain?

 

2. Will applying multiple coats lead to a darker stain? I did not see much of a difference in colour after the first stain, but this could be because of the thickness of the initial coat.

 

3. I have now found 480 grit sandpaper, but initially the finest was 240 grit. I notice that there is sandpaper for metal that goes up to 1000 grit. Will I be able to use that to get a smoother finish or won't it work with wood?

 

4. I used a hand-sander for the job. Would it be recommended to use an electric sander between coats, or will it remove too much of the applied stain?

 

I know these seem like some pretty ignorant questions, but before working with this base, my only experience with woodworking was making fire. :blink:

post #5855 of 5995
Quote:
Originally Posted by grausch View Post
 

I believe it is a varnish, although the description states it to be a wood stain. http://www.biopin.com/wohnraumlasur.html for the description in English. It uses linseed oil and wood oil, so I assume this would make it a varnish. However, first time I did something like this, so don't take my word on it.

 

The Blumenstein Chocolate Orcas were the inspiration, and after unsuccessfully trying to import Tried & True varnish to Europe, I found a German company that makes an all-natural stain / varnish.

 

The colour turned out quite well, although I believe I could improve future bases. Sanded initially with a 120 grit and then I used a brush to apply a pretty thick layer, did not wipe off any excess and just let it dry. I would then rotate between the sides doing a long and a short side per day. Between each coat, I would sand using 240 grit, but I just gave it a quick once over. Applied 5 coats in total, and the last coat was lightly ?brushed? with steel wool. However, I did not really see it making a difference initially, so stopped the process as I did not want to be in a position where I needed to apply another coat. On closer inspection, there are definite brush-marks on the base, but you need to look pretty closely to see them.

 

I will be ordering a Quickie and Quicksand today, and would like to improve the finishing of the 2 new bases. Thus, I have some questions which I would appreciate if someone could answer:

 

1. Will wiping any excess with paper towel get rid of the brush-marks? Is it necessary do this at the initial stages as well? I like the dark brown, and I could be mistaken, but will wiping off the excess lead to a lighter stain? - Yes, yes and yes. I have found applying oils and stains with a cloth helps to prevent brush marks, but you should always wipe off any excess if you want an even finish.

 

2. Will applying multiple coats lead to a darker stain? I did not see much of a difference in colour after the first stain, but this could be because of the thickness of the initial coat. Yes, normally it will and you may find it more necessary if you are wiping off excess as above

 

3. I have now found 480 grit sandpaper, but initially the finest was 240 grit. I notice that there is sandpaper for metal that goes up to 1000 grit. Will I be able to use that to get a smoother finish or won't it work with wood? It will work, but is not really necessary because wood is much softer. One tip (that I found out the hard way): always sand in the same direction as the grain

 

4. I used a hand-sander for the job. Would it be recommended to use an electric sander between coats, or will it remove too much of the applied stain? Depends on the sander, but a light hand sand should be enough. Beware that many electric sanders use an orbital (circular) pattern which will leave very visible swirl marks in your timber... ask me how I know! :tongue_smile:

 

I know these seem like some pretty ignorant questions, but before working with this base, my only experience with woodworking was making fire. :blink:

 

By the way, it sounds like it's a wood oil / polish and stain in one product.

post #5856 of 5995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquah View Post
 

 

By the way, it sounds like it's a wood oil / polish and stain in one product.

Thank you for the detailed reply.

 

With the hand sander I used, the only efficient option was to sand in the direction of the grain. So I guess I was lucky. Sanding against the grain would just be completely inefficient. Thanks for the comment though, as the 480 grit is with an orbital sander and you have saved me from wasting money and time on trying to remove swirl marks.

post #5857 of 5995

Its ok to use the sander just remember to finish off by giving it a hand sand in the direction of the grain.

 

If you are building up any thickness with your coats then I would consider it a varnish even if it is not in the true sense you still will need to treat it like one to get good results. Stain based products tend to be very thin in nature think anything  between water and olive oil. A varnish would normally be thicker and it would be normal practise to thin it down for the first few coats decreasing the ratio of thinner on following coats. I tend to go for a oil based varnish and then use Tung oil to thin it down as required wiping on the first thin coats and then going to brush once the mix is thick enough for the brush to hold. 

post #5858 of 5995
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieMcC View Post
 

Its ok to use the sander just remember to finish off by giving it a hand sand in the direction of the grain.

 

If you are building up any thickness with your coats then I would consider it a varnish even if it is not in the true sense you still will need to treat it like one to get good results. Stain based products tend to be very thin in nature think anything  between water and olive oil. A varnish would normally be thicker and it would be normal practise to thin it down for the first few coats decreasing the ratio of thinner on following coats. I tend to go for a oil based varnish and then use Tung oil to thin it down as required wiping on the first thin coats and then going to brush once the mix is thick enough for the brush to hold. 

Ok. I will most probably just use the hand sander. In all honesty, the sanding was not really that time consuming. I thought that sanding with an electric sander would give a smoother result, but it is most likely that I applied my coats too thick. If I apply thinner coats, and wipe off the excess, I think it will solve most of my problems. But it is good to know that the final coat is the one that needs to go in the direction of the grain.

 

Regarding the thinning of the coats, what is the rationale behind starting off with a very thin coat and then using less thinner for the later coats? I just used the varnish as it was although I made sure it was properly stirred before each application.

post #5859 of 5995
Quote:
Originally Posted by grausch View Post
 

Ok. I will most probably just use the hand sander. In all honesty, the sanding was not really that time consuming. I thought that sanding with an electric sander would give a smoother result, but it is most likely that I applied my coats too thick. If I apply thinner coats, and wipe off the excess, I think it will solve most of my problems. But it is good to know that the final coat is the one that needs to go in the direction of the grain.

 

Regarding the thinning of the coats, what is the rationale behind starting off with a very thin coat and then using less thinner for the later coats? I just used the varnish as it was although I made sure it was properly stirred before each application.

 

A thinned down mix will penetrate into the wood more that's why stains and wood preservers are typical thin so the stain and fungicides penetrate into the wood giving better protection and more even staining.

 

With the thinned down varnish it does the same penetrates deeper sealing the wood rather than just sitting on top this also helps subsequent coats adhere better so they don't flake off later. A good majority of the wipe on oils will contain a varnish type additive its actually quit hard to find a pure oil one off the shelf in a hardware store. But if both varnish, stain or wipe on oil finish are all oil the same ie oil based they can normally be interblended testing but always do a test sample to confirm.

 

The old school way would be to cut the varnish say with 75% oil thinners for the first couple of wipe on coats (dries very quickly)  then a 50/50 then 50/75 for building up coats and depending on how well 100% varnish flows out a coat at 100% to finish off. This sounds like a lot of fluffing around but really you are only using one pot starting out with a thin mix and just adding a little more varnish each time to the pot to increase your varnish to oil/thinner ratio.

 

A good varnish brush with nature bristles can be quiet expensive and is normally lovingly cherished and kept stored suspended in linseed oil and can last a long time with the right care. For small jobs like the enclosures the inexpensive disposable foam brushes are the way to go for a brushstroke free finish.  If you want to speed up the process wipe on the first coats this will help bring out the colour and figuring of the wood sand with 240/320 in between then use a automotive clear coat in rattle can spraying light coats every 5-10 minutes  one of the nice things with the automotive clear is that its hard enough to compounded and polish if required for a wet look high gloss finish.


Edited by JamieMcC - 8/26/14 at 5:46am
post #5860 of 5995
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieMcC View Post
 

 

A thinned down mix will penetrate into the wood more that's why stains and wood preservers are typical thin so the stain and fungicides penetrate into the wood giving better protection and more even staining.

 

With the thinned down varnish it does the same penetrates deeper sealing the wood rather than just sitting on top this also helps subsequent coats adhere better so they don't flake off later. A good majority of the wipe on oils will contain a varnish type additive its actually quit hard to find a pure oil one off the shelf in a hardware store. But if both varnish, stain or wipe on oil finish are all oil the same ie oil based they can normally be interblended testing but always do a test sample to confirm.

 

The old school way would be to cut the varnish say with 75% oil thinners for the first couple of wipe on coats (dries very quickly)  then a 50/50 then 50/75 for building up coats and depending on how well 100% varnish flows out a coat at 100% to finish off. This sounds like a lot of fluffing around but really you are only using one pot starting out with a thin mix and just adding a little more varnish each time to the pot to increase your varnish to oil/thinner ratio.

 

A good varnish brush with nature bristles can be quiet expensive and is normally lovingly cherished and kept stored suspended in linseed oil and can last a long time with the right care. For small jobs like the enclosures the inexpensive disposable foam brushes are the way to go for a brushstroke free finish.  If you want to speed up the process wipe on the first coats this will help bring out the colour and figuring of the wood sand with 240/320 in between then use a automotive clear coat in rattle can spraying light coats every 5-10 minutes  one of the nice things with the automotive clear is that its hard enough to compounded and polish if required for a wet look high gloss finish.

Wow, I am learning quite a bit more on this DIY journey than I expected. I will take your advice, and since it already has linseed oil try and find some pure oil, and then apply the increasingly thicker coats. Will still need to think about the clear coat as I really like the plain wood (chocolate orcas were the inspiration after all).

 

Now just to order the items a little later today and then for the wait...

post #5861 of 5995


One of the easiest and quickest ways to finish wood products which is used a lot commercially (time spent finishing is lost profit) for interior products is to use a couple of coats of sanding sealer this dries in minutes and is followed by a brush on wax and a buff up, for a Crack enclosure you would be all done in minutes. But its not half as much fun and if your building for yourself its nice to take the pleasure and satisfaction in getting the type of finish you want.

post #5862 of 5995
I finished my build of the Crack tonight and I'm impressed by the sound quality without the Speedball upgrade.
I've got 2 questions:

(1) there's a background hiss/hum that's audible when between tracks. It doesn't change in loudness with the volume pot. It comes on a few seconds after the amp is switched on (presumably as the tubes warm up). Is this tube hum? Or something the Speedball can fix (I read that it has a black background).
(2) when removing the 4 resistors from the Crack in order to fit the Speedball, do I just snip the ends off or do I have to desolder the joints and then remove the resistors?
post #5863 of 5995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitalstatistix View Post

I finished my build of the Crack tonight and I'm impressed by the sound quality without the Speedball upgrade.
I've got 2 questions:

(1) there's a background hiss/hum that's audible when between tracks. It doesn't change in loudness with the volume pot. It comes on a few seconds after the amp is switched on (presumably as the tubes warm up). Is this tube hum? Or something the Speedball can fix (I read that it has a black background).
(2) when removing the 4 resistors from the Crack in order to fit the Speedball, do I just snip the ends off or do I have to desolder the joints and then remove the resistors?

Once the bottlehead forum is back up, check the Crack sub-forum. Can't recall the exact parts, but there was a problem with a sample of some of the parts received. Once swapped out, it should be dead-quiet.

 

If I recall correctly, there is also some discussion about it on this thread.

 

Edit: Misread your post. That was on the Speedball upgrade. Without it, it could be a number of other issues.

 

2nd Edit: I see you posted on the Bottlehead forum as well. That is the best place to ask.


Edited by grausch - 8/27/14 at 12:41am
post #5864 of 5995
Also could be the tube. Probably the big one. Two from bottlehead had a hum for me. Allow the amp to run for a while. Sometimes tubes just need to be worked in a bit. O noisy tube often becomes silent with time on it
post #5865 of 5995
Quote:

>>>(2) when removing the 4 resistors from the Crack in order to fit the Speedball, do I just snip the ends off or do I have to desolder the joints and then remove the resistors?

After snipping, I ended up desoldering and removing the snipped off ends.  You'll end up going back to these terminals to solder in the power to the speedball, and you want that "junk" out of the way.

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