or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphone Amps (full-size) › Crack;Bottlehead OTL
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Crack;Bottlehead OTL - Page 189

post #2821 of 7977
FWIW, I just want to mention that -- while I totally get why people do this, and I am as guilty as anyone else (I have two GEC brown base 6AS7Gs, five 5998s, two Bendix 6080s with graphite plates, etc.) -- it is completely and utterly unnecessary and (I would argue) a waste of money. We are guilty of our own obesessions, and I don't want to keep anyone from tube-rolling to their heart's delight, but I don't want anyone considering the Crack to get the misguided notion that buying expensive tubes is necessary -- or even particularly helpful -- with the Crack. Almost EVERY single tube I've tried in my Crack has sounded wonderful, as long as I wasn't using an adapter. Roll tubes if you want to and it is fun, but don't feel compelled to do so in order to get excellent sound. The Crack will sound wonderful with just about every tube (subject to the usual tube variation with regard to noise and microphonics).

Best regards,
Adam
post #2822 of 7977
Quote:
Originally Posted by amcananey View Post

FWIW, I just want to mention that -- while I totally get why people do this, and I am as guilty as anyone else (I have two GEC brown base 6AS7Gs, five 5998s, two Bendix 6080s with graphite plates, etc.) -- it is completely and utterly unnecessary and (I would argue) a waste of money. We are guilty of our own obesessions, and I don't want to keep anyone from tube-rolling to their heart's delight, but I don't want anyone considering the Crack to get the misguided notion that buying expensive tubes is necessary -- or even particularly helpful -- with the Crack. Almost EVERY single tube I've tried in my Crack has sounded wonderful, as long as I wasn't using an adapter. Roll tubes if you want to and it is fun, but don't feel compelled to do so in order to get excellent sound. The Crack will sound wonderful with just about every tube (subject to the usual tube variation with regard to noise and microphonics).

Best regards,
Adam

Well said
post #2823 of 7977

I'll join in the chorus on this point.  The 6as7g rolling thread, among others, is frankly full of hyperbole and, in certain instances, blatant shilling.  

 

I do perceive differences between tubes, but they are generally subtle, particularly once the speedball is in place.  Tube rolling is basically a very costly means of eq'ing your rig, which doubles as an excuse for collecting.  My experience has been that there is no direct link between price and sound quality.  For example, I own and enjoy a gec 6as7g, but I am not at all convinced that this tube sounds any better, objectively, than a basic, noise free chatham 6080 I bought for $7.  Having listened to both regularly for a year or so, and now that the new toy syndrome has worn off, I am fairly convinced that I would fail a DBT if asked to differentiate between them.  My favorite input tube at present is fairly a common place 1960's tung sol 12au7, for which I believe I paid $9, plus a couple bucks in shipping.  

 

Higher transconductance power tubes (5998's, 2339, 7236, and 7802's) do sound a bit different - which makes sense given that they: (i) lower the amp's output impedance, impacting damping, and (ii) have higher gain.  Ultimately, my conclusion, fwiw, is that It is a fool's errand to spend big money on tubes for an amp that sounds great with a wide range of cheap tubes.


Edited by skeptic - 10/4/13 at 3:10pm
post #2824 of 7977
skeptic, you said it even better than I did...
post #2825 of 7977

Not at all, but thanks!  I just wanted to reinforce the sound advice you and palmfish have been promulgating.  In five years of reading head-fi, this may be the only series of consecutive posts I've ever seen (at least outside of sound science) that advocates saving cash and enjoying the excellent amp we all already own.

 

Experimenting with tweaks for, uh, lofty scientific purposes is of course exempted  :wink_face: 

post #2826 of 7977

You are starting to get it, grasshoppers. When you can take the vacuum tube from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

post #2827 of 7977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc B. View Post

You are starting to get it, grasshoppers. When you can take the vacuum tube from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.
doc, would I be right in assuming that most tube amp makers design their amps to sound as intended with the stock tubes?
post #2828 of 7977

Just got my kit!  It came with an RCA 7152 tube.  I noticed some rattling when I picked it up to examine it.  Is that normal?  I'm still in the build process, so I haven't tested it.

post #2829 of 7977

It is not uncommon for there to be very small particles of debris, even glass fragments, inside the tube.  They generally do no impact performance.  Look very carefully just to make they are very small.

 

Cheers

post #2830 of 7977

My love affair has ended.  The flame just burnt too brightly and too hot.  I have pulled my hand back from the fire.  Goodbye Crack.  How I will miss thee!  Tube rolling has been my joy and my bane. 

post #2831 of 7977

BYW - I do notice a difference in tubes, albeit subtle.  Worth spending the money to optimise the sound of something you already love.  The difference is in more than EQ IMO.  Think speed, clarity and sound stage. 

 

Just don't go to the extremes that I have!

post #2832 of 7977
Quote:
Originally Posted by W0lfd0g View Post
 

BYW - I do notice a difference in tubes, albeit subtle.  Worth spending the money to optimise the sound of something you already love.  The difference is in more than EQ IMO.  Think speed, clarity and sound stage. 

 

Just don't go to the extremes that I have!

 

I agree with W0lfd0g that the tubes change more than just the frequency response (i.e. more than just EQing), but I also agree that there's no need to feel like you have to spend a bucket on tubes. 

 

As much as I prefer the 6AS7G over my other 6080 equivalents, I would still be very happy with any of my sub $35 tubes (which are the majority of my collection). The 6AS7G is an incremental upgrade only, there are no exponential gains that I've found in any of my limited tub rolling experience.

post #2833 of 7977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquah View Post
 

 

I agree with W0lfd0g that the tubes change more than just the frequency response (i.e. more than just EQing), but I also agree that there's no need to feel like you have to spend a bucket on tubes. 

 

As much as I prefer the 6AS7G over my other 6080 equivalents, I would still be very happy with any of my sub $35 tubes (which are the majority of my collection). The 6AS7G is an incremental upgrade only, there are no exponential gains that I've found in any of my limited tub rolling experience.

+1

 

Don't expect a huge change in sound, just a tweak.  All tubes sound great in this amp.

post #2834 of 7977
At least in my case, the difference in microphonics is significant between my 6080 and the 6AS7G. That alone is reason enough for me to use the 6AS7G. That, and the 6AS7G just looks so badass... biggrin.gif
post #2835 of 7977
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

At least in my case, the difference in microphonics is significant between my 6080 and the 6AS7G. That alone is reason enough for me to use the 6AS7G. That, and the 6AS7G just looks so badass... biggrin.gif

 

Yeah, I held back from commenting on the superficial fact that I'd almost stick with the 6AS7G JUST because it looks awesome! :blink: 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphone Amps (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphone Amps (full-size) › Crack;Bottlehead OTL