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AKGs K1000 and bass.

post #1 of 13
10/26/03 at 7:37am
Thread Starter 
Hi all.

I am interested in giving away my 580s (Senns) to get AKG K1000s. Is it a good investment?

I am worried about losing my tight bass of the Senns. Is the bass of the K1000s going to be anemic and weak sounding and too "airy" or am I still going to be getting a concrete sound (typical of headphones) with the AKGs too?

So are they good for rock too? Is the bass good enough with a strong amp? I dont want to be using a subwoofer since I dont want the setup to get too loud.
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post #2 of 13
10/26/03 at 11:31am
The K1000s are VERY difficult headphones to drive. Do you have a headphone amplifier capable of pumping nearly 8 watts into them? You basically need a small speaker amplifier for these babies.

When underamplified, they sound harsh and edgy in the highs and weak in the bass.

When powered properly, they provide a superior sense of three dimensionality because they use organic crossfeed, have superior detail, and incredible soundstage.

The K1000s are brutally revealing of your source and recording flaws for this reason. I only liked them better than the sennheier HD580/600 when they were driven on a meridian 588 through the sugden headmaster w/ cardas neutral reference interconnects.

They certainly are nice earspeakers (you really can't call them true headphones). I suggest auditioning a pair. They sounded great to me.

Cheers,
Geek
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post #3 of 13
10/26/03 at 11:34am
Also, one more thing: the K1000s to me sounded GREAT with rock music. If there is one strength they have above the HD600, it is their incredible focus and detail: detail which generally remains relaxed as it should in real life, but is brought to your attention by the absolutely flooring pinpoint imaging. Rock music sounds alive and well on these headphones, which do not sacrifice the natural tonal balance imho. Other music is great, too. I like the sound of solo unaccompanied violin, and that's really saying something: when the earcups are tilted all the way forward, the musician appears 20 feet away and his instrument's ambience is accurate.

They will work for basically any genre of music. They are neutral, lively, and have incredible bass control when properly driven.

Cheers,
Geek
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post #4 of 13
10/26/03 at 12:04pm
THe K-1000's rock with the best of 'em. The bass doesn't have the same presentation as the 580's--it doesn't have as much weight, but driven properly it is better quality than the Senn's. Amplifier matching is critical, and like I said before, tubes go really well with the K1000's.
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post #5 of 13
10/26/03 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Geek
The K1000s are VERY difficult headphones to drive. Do you have a headphone amplifier capable of pumping nearly 8 watts into them? You basically need a small speaker amplifier for these babies.
Exactly. You will need an AudioValve RKV Mk II or small speaker amp or equivalent to drive K1000s or you will not be happy. I suspect that an amp which keeps separate grounds for the two channels may provide slightly superior detail to a common ground system. This was, as I understand it, part of the idea in Stax's systems, with the Sennheiser Orpheus, and with HeadRoom's Blockhead with specailly smurfed HD600s. With adequate power and good source, bass is ample, tight, and realistic. With adequate power and source, K1000s are, IMHO, the easiest translation between excellent loudspeakers and excellent headphones. And a continuing delight.
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post #6 of 13
10/26/03 at 12:18pm
Thread Starter 
Hi ,
I am planning on feeding the K1000s with a vintage Kenwood receiver or a Tandberg vintage receiver all solid state.

What is better for these phones. Speaker amp or dedicated K1000 amp?

Will they be better in every aspect than my 580s?
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post #7 of 13
10/26/03 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally posted by marios_mar
Hi ,
I am planning on feeding the K1000s with a vintage Kenwood receiver or a Tandberg vintage receiver all solid state.

What is better for these phones. Speaker amp or dedicated K1000 amp?

Will they be better in every aspect than my 580s?
One of those receivers might do a good job. Some people will find the 580 more comfortable on the head. And for some pieces calling for an intimate presentation (e.g. solo instruments), the 580 might be preferable as the K1000 always introduce a lot of space and air.
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post #8 of 13
10/26/03 at 3:01pm
The K1000's are great phones, but really perform best with tubed amplifiers. That opinion is echoed by every Head-Fi guru I know who owns them.
The bass, and overall sound quality can also be improved markedly (and I am usually skeptical in this regard) by a K1000 Equinox cable from Stefan Audio Art. I have had the opportunity to listen to them both with and without the Equinox in the same system and was very surprised at the sonic improvements it made.
There are very, very few amplifiers that will power them out of a headphone output, as has been previously noted. My Cary SLI-80 Signature integrated is one, but there arent many.


JC
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post #9 of 13
10/26/03 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally posted by marios_mar
Hi I am planning on feeding the K1000s with a vintage Kenwood receiver or a Tandberg vintage receiver all solid state.
What is better for these phones. Speaker amp or dedicated K1000 amp?
Will they be better in every aspect than my 580s?

Marios, it is impossible to say that you will like them better than the 580's because it is all a matter of personal preference. I personally think they are much better than the 580's, however only when driven by a proper amp.

I would say a speaker amp is ideal, unless you get an RKV (or a Cary SLI like Nightfall's). However, solid state vintage receivers scare the hell out of me. 1970's and early 80's solid state stuff is harsh and I would put a good bet on it that they are a bad match with the K-1000.

My recent NAD C350 amp which is great with my speakers sounded like crap with the K-1000. It was really harsh and bright. The K-1000's treble can be harsh when not driven by the right amp and cause listener fatigue very quickly.

As Nightfall was saying, tubes are the way to go for the K-1000. I use the Norh se9 and its a great match with the K-1000 and it is a good deal as it retails for $400.
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post #10 of 13
10/26/03 at 5:28pm
Thread Starter 
Now you have confused me.

I have no OPPURTUNITY to test the AKGs K1000 before I buy them where I live.

I have the 580's and I like what they sound like. I havent tried any better phones than the 580s yet.

My amp for them is small Cmoy. I was looking into getting the AKGs and using a receiver I already got to save myself from building or buying a good amp for the HD580s since the Tandberg receiver is good (at least for speakers).

So what interests me to know is if there are points besides comfort and aesthetics where the Senns are truly better than the AKGs. If the answer is not clear then Ill take the upgrade way.
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post #11 of 13
10/26/03 at 7:54pm
One thing to consider regarding the K1000s is that these headphones require a very quiet listening environment to be able to listen and really enjoy the music. Sound from HVAC systems, refrigerators, computers, nearby traffic, and even the daily activities of other household members can be a big distraction when using these phones. Of course, the Sennheiser HD-580 and 600 do not block much outside noise but if anything the drivers on the K1000s seem to act as miniature sound panels and reflect every sound around you directly at your ears. I would suggest that you keep your HD-580s and instead consider upgrading to a better amplifier and/or a better source.
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post #12 of 13
10/26/03 at 8:05pm
Quote:
Originally posted by marios_mar
So what interests me to know is if there are points besides comfort and aesthetics where the Senns are truly better than the AKGs. If the answer is not clear then Ill take the upgrade way.
Marios, its never that easy. You never know until you try them for yourself. If they don't work out with the tandberg reciever, you can always buy an amp at a later time. They truly are a great headphone, however as with any headphone, results will vary in different systems. Best of luck.
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post #13 of 13
10/27/03 at 2:56am
I have to admit to not being impressed with the bass of the K1000's.
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