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What component's do you believe make a difference? - Page 3

post #31 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
I don't believe in beliefs. It's about personal experiences.
.
I wonder if it is not more appropriate for anti-cablers to say "I believe that cables don't make a difference". When they say "I don't believe in cables/myths" they sound like they are immune to making mistakes, that their opinion of cables is absolutely correct. And all they had to do was "don't believe" .

Dolby headphone is interesting, it is far from perfect though, has the potential to be awesome.
post #32 of 122
I cannot make a definitive list as different kit has had a different impact depending on how it is put together with the rest of my setup. I can give impressions of various products-

Russ Andrews Supersocket - no difference.

Russ Andrews The Silencer and Tacima mains conditioners - minor difference to no difference depending on where I have lived.

Target rack. I cannot remember the model, but it was a metal frame with wooden shelves - I was amazed at the difference which was an immediate and clear improvement in clarity, dynamic attack and bass depth.

Various analogue cables - minor to no difference. My budget limit is £50 for any cable.

USB cables - no difference at all.

Headphones and speakers - a clear and obvious difference.

Amps - a clear and obvious difference, but not to the same extent as above.

DACs - tried two and a minor difference.

DAC vs standard soundcard in Dell and Sony laptops - a clear and obvious win for the DACs.

Laptops as source - no difference.

Windows XP and 7 - a difference, but undecided which is better.
post #33 of 122
My Thoughts on this post by the OP:
My comments are added tothe OPs thoughts in bold/italic


Make No Difference:

Power Cables -------- Makes more of a difference than even mp3 vbr vs flac on a high end audio system.

Digital Cables (i.e. TOSlink, USB)------ Havent auditioned different cables on a high end system but on my pc the digital cables differences is dependent on the sensitivity of the particular dac to various cables. My havana for example cared about cables more than my little uDac.

FLAC vs. CD

IMO, spending money/time on the above is a complete waste.

Make An Extremely Minor Difference:

Analog Cables
320kb MP3 vs. FLAC

The differences in the above are so minor that most won't hear the difference even if listening extremely closely, but a few might hear it. -----I agree but on a high end system where a cd player is used to play the mp3 instead of a pc to dac based system, the differences might be bigger because many cdps dont have good mp3 decoding. As for the cables, I believe they are icing on the cake that can make or break a high resolution system but should be really only tweaked/changed/upgraded when all other equipment is final.


Make a Minor Difference:

Sources/DACs
192kb MP3 vs. FLAC

I will probably get flamed by the "source is the most importaint" people, I've found the vast majority of sources sound basically the same barring extreme outliers (like straight out of a laptop with horrible interference issues). Would you really rather listen to ibuds out of a $2,000 DAC than HD800s out of an ipod?

Make Some Difference:

Amps

I find the difference in amps declines greatly once you have hit the threshold of ability to properly power the speaker/headphone


As for the question about source vs amp... This depends highly on the headphones used. A hard to drive but non detailed headphone will benefit more from a good amp than a good source while a detailed headphone thats easy to drive might need a better source more than spending more for an amp. Its mostly about synergy here.

Make a Large Difference

Headphones ------very true because it is the most flawed part of the chain
Quality of recording ----- very true because it is the most variable part of the chain.
post #34 of 122
post #35 of 122
havent tried changing fuses yet hehehe but from reading the havana thread, many say they made a difference so who knows
post #36 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
I'd say about 95% of it is recording quality and your headphones or speakers. If you're running speakers, then the room is important.

4% is the amp. You need an amp that can fully drive your headphones or speakers. While not contributing to sound quality, I think it is important to have an amp with great build quality. Cheap ones just aren't worth the trouble.

Digital sources are pretty much the same, however, build quality is important.

Everything else is simply fashion.
AMEN

I can't tell you how many people have told me that my high-end 'stat setup is "being choked" by my use of a standard PC power cable somehow, they would rather see me use $1000+ cable to connect my amp right to the wall, as opposed to my current setup in which I use a $2 power cable to connect to an isolation transformer
post #37 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by haloxt View Post
I wonder if it is not more appropriate for anti-cablers to say "I believe that cables don't make a difference". When they say "I don't believe in cables/myths" they sound like they are immune to making mistakes, that their opinion of cables is absolutely correct. And all they had to do was "don't believe" .
That's just playing games with semantics.

The burden of proof is on the person making a claim. If they assert that something exists, or that a change is made, it is the responsiblity of the person making the claim to demonstrate it.

Cables have never been demonstrated to "work" as claimed by those who sell them.

No physical test has ever shown a difference.

No one has ever heard a difference blind.

Until one or both of those change, the appropriate classification would be "not proven." Anything else is just games, deception and intellectual dishonesty.

Also, if you look at the cable "industry" from the point of view that the markups are astronomical, they admit themselves that they don't know how their own products work and the outrageous claims... well, it's pretty clear the field is brimming with fraud, hucksters and dishonesty.

Even if there is something unknown, that does not mean that any particular cable "works." There is every chance you bought one of the fraudulent cables. There's no way to really know, is there?

El Doug, simply put some Romex from Home Depot into a garden hose filled with sandblasting medium. Cover in Techflex and tell people that you paid $2,000 for it, but that the original retail price was $8,000, so it's really an $8,000 power cord. That'll thoroughly impress them and only run you about $20. And if you could find a way to sell it to them....
post #38 of 122
I couldn't say if one cable was technically really better than another and worth much more just by listening but I have passed blind tests detecting which cable was which.
post #39 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
No one has ever heard a difference blind.
Often repeated by people who believe that cables cannot make a difference, but not true.
.
post #40 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaZZ View Post
Often repeated by people who believe that cables cannot make a difference, but not true.
no offense, but saying that all the analog cables sound the same and that "Digital sources are pretty much the same" is a joke, right?

roll opamps and they will sound like night and day...I've just rolled the crappy stock OPA2604AP off my Firestone Spitfire for the holy LT1028ACN8(fed w/ bit-perfect glass toslink):



see what RS has to say about this chip: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/6402627-post77.html

if his amps are so successful, that's because they use killer chips...and no, all digital sources are not "pretty much the same"
post #41 of 122
uncle erik, the majority of cable believers aren't running around saying it is the absolute truth and that it is backed by empirical evidence etc, so no it does not constitute fraud for most of us when we don't feel like "backing it up", just possible self-deception. And I don't condone what some cable manufacturers are doing.

Also it's not a matter of semantics between "I don't believe in x/myths" and "I believe there is no difference in x". The former is absolute, whereas the latter allows the possibility of being wrong. Some anti-cablers think they are absolutely correct, that their position requires no belief and is eternally true, and some anti-cablers are of the position that they may possibly be wrong.
post #42 of 122
Right on, Uncle Erik!

I was once a true believer, and thought that the so-called objectivists were all wet. I was so sure that the tube-rolling, cable-rolling, and green-marker rolling I engaged in definitely made huge differences. Night and day! The $2000 amp I bought sounded so much better than the $500 model it replaced that it was like they were in different leagues! I could hear it, my friends could hear it!

...Then I was introduced to some of stunning facts of human perception and bias, as covered by authors like Thomas Gilovich. I started to have some second thoughts. But the key audiophile magazines kept me "on track" and kept any doubts in the background of my mind.

Later, I was introduced to some of the experts out there who don't have any snake oil to sell, guys like Floyd Toole, David Rich, Sean Olive, David Griesinger, Don Keele, and Siegfried Linkwitz, and my mind started to open up.

Finally I had the chance to do some listening, in controlled conditions, with levels precisely matched. I was surprised at how the process worked - I was able to listen to "A" sighted, as long as I wanted to become familiar with it. And the same for "B" - then I could switch back and forth as many times and for as long as I wanted. When it came time for the "x" sample, I also had as much time as I wanted... And I found that I could tell a difference just about half the time. Hopefully you know what that means. I learned what it meant, and gradually came to some different conclusions about audio.

I really don't expect anyone to be convinced by anecdotes - I know that I sure wouldn't have been 10 years ago when I was saving for $700 speaker cables. Just check out some of those authors I mentioned earlier and consider it.

There is a significant body of peer-reviewed published work correlating impressions predicted through technical measurements and subjective human subject testing. All is not solved in audio engineering, but quite a bit is!

It's also important to point out that this sort of "objective enlightenment" doesn't need to make the hobby less fun, as is the frequent editorial drumbeat by at least one of the major audiophile magazines. It can and does make it less fun when the arguments become the focus instead of the music, but it does not have to be that way. People still enjoy Rolex, Omega, and Cartier watches, even though they are well aware that a Seiko or Casio tells time just as well. It can only serve the love of music more when an enthusiast focuses on what really makes a difference, and keeps jewelery factor/bragging rights/pride of ownership separate, if they are also interested in those things.
post #43 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
El Doug, simply put some Romex from Home Depot into a garden hose filled with sandblasting medium. Cover in Techflex and tell people that you paid $2,000 for it, but that the original retail price was $8,000, so it's really an $8,000 power cord. That'll thoroughly impress them and only run you about $20. And if you could find a way to sell it to them....
Lol.... I would respectfully suggest that you get a heavy-gauge outdoor extension cord instead of Romex, as it's a lot easier to deal with being stranded copper, and will have more layers of insulation. Then cut the ends off and strip the wires before threading it through the garden hose. Don't forget the fabric sheathing (you'll want to use different-colored fabrics to tell the difference between your speaker cables and your power cables) and heatshrunk strain relief before you put the rhodium-plated cryo-treated connectors on that baby, and you'll be laughing all the way to the bank
post #44 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by islewind View Post
tube-rolling, cable-rolling, and green-marker rolling
so this is turning into a troll thread basically? all the cables sound the same, all the digital sources do too, and so do tubes? all the opamps too I'm sure?

here's a real world test: Here's some test results
Quote:
Everybody -in different locations, at different times, without knowing from each other- told the same story, that they found the differences between opamps more important than the differences in dac chips.
post #45 of 122
The two most influential components if my listening experience:-

1) Ear wax
2) wallet.


Hahahahaha........
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