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Matrix M-Stage amp review: simple, cheap, and excellent. - Page 263

post #3931 of 4896

i found that changing caps on the amp brought about more noticeable change than opamp rolling, as other members mentioned. My amp now lies more on the neutral side (relatively) and responds more readily to different sources..

 

Aside, I am really interested in those Japanese Muses opamps and curious to see how they differ from opa627s. I like my class A biased 627s but I'm always looking out for new things.

post #3932 of 4896
Quote:
Originally Posted by cans4dessert View Post

i found that changing caps on the amp brought about more noticeable change than opamp rolling, as other members mentioned. My amp now lies more on the neutral side (relatively) and responds more readily to different sources..

 

Aside, I am really interested in those Japanese Muses opamps and curious to see how they differ from opa627s. I like my class A biased 627s but I'm always looking out for new things.

 

YES! 

 

I replaced all the WIMA's and thought it a significant improvement. Never liked WIMA's.

 

Also replaced metal film resistors in signal path with Carbon Films.

post #3933 of 4896
I removed the input coupling caps.

Anybody try any more cap mods in the M Stage?
post #3934 of 4896

I replaced all the electrolytics except the 4700uF ones plus swapped the input caps with different ones (okay..i was too chicken).

I replaced them all at the same time so I cannot tell which cap replacement contributed most to the change...

4 x Elna Cerafines near the heatsinks and 2 x Silmic IIs near the opamp.

2 x Axon True caps at the input.

 

There were two more capacitors I replaced at that time (used Vishay MKP 1837 0.022uF) in place of the two red WIMAs behind the opamp but I put the WIMAs back in after listening... it just sounded way too cold for me. Maybe it's because they are 0.022uF only. The WIMAs are 0.15uF. I thought 0.022uF should be sufficient as, from what I saw, the Lovely Cube uses 0.022uF caps there...

Maybe I did something wrong and putting the WIMAs back in fixed it. Who knows =P

 

Anyhow, I am very happy with what I have now.

 

 

post #3935 of 4896

While I've spent a good deal of time researching this issue on this thread prior to asking my question, I haven't come to a clear answer.  Please excuse the newbie question.

 

i'm in the market for an amp upgrade [coming from the E09k] to go along with my new K702 65th headphones and I have recently had the opportunity to purchase one of several used M-Stage amps.  They're comparably priced and one model is a pre-2012 version (purchased in Jan-11) with the Burr/Brown OPA627AP installed by TAM Audio.  The other is a stock 2012 version with the openings on the sides. 

 

From what I've gathered on this thread, some of the internal components were changed out on the 2012 version and the original version of the amp is warmer when compared to the 2012 version.  Are there any other differences between the two?

 

I'm also in a haze about OPA rolling. I understand that changing out this part can alter the sound signature, but to what degree is really a subjective determination [again, from what I'm reading here].  Would the OPA627AP be good for the K702 65th sound signature?

 

Feel free to correct me if I've misstated anything above, but any help would be greatly appreciated.


Edited by kellte2 - 4/23/13 at 7:08am
post #3936 of 4896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellte2 View Post

While I've spent a good deal of time researching this issue on this thread prior to asking my question, I haven't come to a clear answer.  Please excuse the newbie question.

 

i'm in the market for an amp upgrade [coming from the E09k] to go along with my new K702 65th headphones and I have recently had the opportunity to purchase one of several used M-Stage amps.  They're comparably priced and one model is a pre-2012 version (purchased in Jan-11) with the Burr/Brown OPA627AP installed by TAM Audio.  The other is a stock 2012 version with the openings on the sides. 

 

From what I've gathered on this thread, some of the internal components were changed out on the 2012 version and the original version of the amp is warmer when compared to the 2012 version.  Are there any other differences between the two?

 

I'm also in a haze about OPA rolling. I understand that changing out this part can alter the sound signature, but to what degree is really a subjective determination [again, from what I'm reading here].  Would the OPA627AP be good for the K702 65th sound signature?

 

Feel free to correct me if I've misstated anything above, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Hi,

The old version will sound no different than the new version.

We had made a few jokes that the old version was "warmer" because it did not have vents!

The new version was "airier" because it was vented!

But that was just a bunch of bad jokes we were exchanging!  redface.gif

The only difference that I can see is the addition of the DAC which will not affect the sound of the amp.

Rolling different Op Amps does not change the sound of the amp too much.

I've tried a few and have settled on the LM4562............YMMV!

I would also add that their is not much difference in sound between the M Stage and the FiiO E09K.

I own both and when I used my Q701 I hear very little difference in sound.

 

In other words, I wouldn't bother upgrading from an 09K to an M Stage.  You'll probably get more bang for your buck by upgrading your DAC!  I don't know what you use for a DAC.

 

Chris

AKA

Xris (kind of gives me a rakish look!)

post #3937 of 4896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

I would also add that their is not much difference in sound between the M Stage and the FiiO E09K.

I own both and when I used my Q701 I hear very little difference in sound.

 

In other words, I wouldn't bother upgrading from an 09K to an M Stage.  You'll probably get more bang for your buck by upgrading your DAC!  I don't know what you use for a DAC.

I can vouch for this. I "upgraded" to the M-Stage from an E9k and only noticed a slight difference, sound wise. The M-Stage is a just bit warmer (if that). The only real difference, really, is the the ability to drive my Q701 with more power. That's about it.

 

And yes, they definitely can get more bang for the buck with an upgraded DAC. I have the M-Stage DAC version and the DAC, itself, is decent at best. I have a Music Streamer II, myself. The price is decent and the performance is priceless. I prefer the MSII with the E12, though. The E12 has a much darker sound (which I kind of like) and pairs up better with it than the E9k and M-Stage, oddly.

post #3938 of 4896

I would like to compare the E9 and M-Stage, but I wouldn't be surprised if they sounded similar (with the M-stage being slightly warmer perhaps). 

 

I sold my E9 before I got my M-Stage so I didn't get a chance to compare them directly.  I liked the E9 while I had it though.

 

I think the E9 and M-stage are probably too close to consider it noticeable upgrade.  You probably need to jump to pricier amps to get that.

 

 

One thing I noticed is that when I double-amp with my Astro mixamp -> Mstage, it seems like the M-stage slightly boosts the soundstage space over just the mixamp alone.  I remember trying this several times with the the E9 as well and coming to the conclusion that I couldn't hear any benefits from double-amping with Mixamp -> E9.

post #3939 of 4896
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

One thing I noticed is that when I double-amp with my Astro mixamp -> Mstage, it seems like the M-stage slightly boosts the soundstage space over just the mixamp alone.  I remember trying this several times with the the E9 as well and coming to the conclusion that I couldn't hear any benefits from double-amping with Mixamp -> E9.

 

+1

 

I agree what you say about the M-Stage enhancing the soundstage. I noticed this with when I had the Recon3D.

post #3940 of 4896
Thank you to all that weighed in. After reading all these responses, I suppose I'm better off saving money and upgrading to a higher end amp/dac down the road. I currently do a fair amount of gaming with the mixamp as one source but my d3k could use the upgrade for music sometime in the future.
post #3941 of 4896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellte2 View Post

Thank you to all that weighed in. After reading all these responses, I suppose I'm better off saving money and upgrading to a higher end amp/dac down the road. I currently do a fair amount of gaming with the mixamp as one source but my d3k could use the upgrade for music sometime in the future.

I think you should be able to roll Op Amps in the E09K.

Anybody ever try that?
post #3942 of 4896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


I think you should be able to roll Op Amps in the E09K.

Anybody ever try that?

 

I know some people have done it before...

post #3943 of 4896
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

I know some people have done it before...

And???
post #3944 of 4896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


And???

post #59

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie_X View Post

I have to disagree. The E9 amp is greatly overhyped for what it is and IMO sucks for amping anything above 32Ohms. I have a K701 on hand and it does a pretty terrible job with it. Everything sounds squashed and the soundstage is much smaller.

 

 


Its the OPA2134 that does that That's why I changed the OPA2134 out of my Fiio E9 when I figure out which Screw driver I needed to open it up.I had the AKG 702 my self, it drove it greatly.  The OPA2134 was what ruined the fun even when it was plugged thou the RCA output of my X-FI HD that had 2xLME49720NA and 2x LME49710NA's in the line. After I changed that trashy OPA2134 to a LT1364CN8 then every thing was much better. The sound stage was better as well the over all sound.  I don't know why they decided to use that POS OPA2134 any way. Yes the Fiio E9 has machine Dip-8 sockets and a Torx T5 is what you need to open it up and change it. The opamp for the headphone jacks is directly behind the 6.3mm jack in the front. Since Then I been rolling opamps with my Fiio E9.

 

I also used High gain with the Fiio E9 with my AKG 702s and not Low gain.

post #3945 of 4896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


And???

 

...It exploded!!

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