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Technics SP-15 for Headphones

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Just picked up an amazing Technics SP-15 in the Technics plinth with an SME Series III tonearm for $150. The tonearm came broken, but I've found a site that sells NOS SME parts. All I'd really like to figure out now is what kind of cartridge should I throw on this thing? It seems like for such a nice table I should put an equally awesome cartridge on it. I read the Shelter 201 is liked for headphones but what are my other options? Would a Benz MC Gold do ok? I've read this tonearm was made for high compliance cartridges, what does that mean? According to the manual it will accept cartridges waying up to 12.5...

post #2 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by theHof View Post
SME Series III tonearm for $150. The tonearm came broken, but I've found a site that sells NOS SME parts. All I'd really like to figure out now is what kind of cartridge should I throw on this thing? It seems like for such a nice table I should put an equally awesome cartridge on it. I read the Shelter 201 is liked for headphones but what are my other options? Would a Benz MC Gold do ok? I've read this tonearm was made for high compliance cartridges, what does that mean? According to the manual it will accept cartridges waying up to 12.5...

That's an excellent set up congratulations. SME in England will themselves also carry a full stock of original parts and still service the arm as well if you want.

Once it's fixed you need to get a cartridge to match the arm mechanically before thinking about sonics. There is more info on compliance here
SME - Series V
Tonearm/Cartridge Capability

Although the SME's mass can be varied to accept lower ccompliance carts like Moving coils this is not really a great solution and you'd be better off getting a different arm if you want to go for a Moving Coil.

High compliance carts are less common these days and what few really good ones are left Moving Magnet and Moving Iron which are on the whole not as expensive as Moving Coil carts.

At the lower end you have the Shure M97 and the basic Grado's but obviously the wood body ones would be much better. These are all quite laid back sonically so nothing like the Shelter, and the SME arm is already very smooth so you may want to match it with something a little more up-front sounding. Nagaoka and Ortofon both make new ranges of MM carts whith go right up beyond 500 dollars or more for the top of the line MP50 / Black, and these will be a bit better balanced sounding.

The really top end would be the (tweaked up Grado) Music Maker III by The Cartridge Man or one fromThe Soundsmith who makes some stunning high end Moving Iron carts based on the classic B&O exotica with ruby cantilevers etc. Read a Michael Fremer review here Stereophile: Soundsmith SMMC1 moving-iron phono cartridge

Aside from Tonearms and carts you probably will also want to make a few tweaks to the plinth and motorboard.
Sound Hi-Fi in the UK and KABUSA in the States are probably the main authorities on Technics, although they don't always agree so you'll probably want to talk to both and make up your own mind.
post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
so would the grado wood body's match up well? Or would i be better to fix this, sell it and then throw some money in to put $1200ish into a tonearm and cart, this is now my 7th tt and my first really decent one, I just want it to be as good as i can do haha.
post #4 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by theHof View Post
so would the grado wood body's match up well? Or would i be better to fix this, sell it and then throw some money in to put $1200ish into a tonearm and cart, this is now my 7th tt and my first really decent one, I just want it to be as good as i can do haha.
The SP15 is no doubt one of the very finest motorboards ever made so this has the potential to be a killer set up.

Nobody can really answer the question about what's the best tonearm / cart combo for you though, you really have to experiment for yourself. That's the wonderful thing and the nightmare of record players, that you have so many variables in how it's set up and isolated from it's surroundings etc before you even match it with the rest of your kit, that it's hard to say.

The Grado woodbody carts will certainly be a good mechanical match but whether you like the sound or not is entirely another matter.

My experience of the SMEIII on a Thorens TD125 was that it sounded lush and very smooth in a '70s high end way. If you listen to lots of classical music and jazz or Stax Soul records or actually even electronica (as it has awsome bass), you'll probably like it a lot with a good MM or MI cart. The Thorens is a bit of a smoothie anyways so combining this with the SMEIII and a class A Marantz amp phonostage for me was altogether a bit too "easy listening".

The SP15 will be a lot more driving than the Thorens though and a good modern solid state phonostage like the Cambridge 640 would do a lot to counterbalance this sound. The Grado is I fear though a step back more into the smooth direction.

If you want a cart to test out the SME with to see if you like the sound then I'd be tempted to hunt down an old Shure on ebay and get a Jico SAS stylus.
The V15 series were amongst the best MM's ever made and certainly the Shure V 15 MR is one of the best carts in my collection. Also because a lot of the stylii are interchangeable you can get an M97 off amazon for 50 bucks and fit a V15V stylus to it. This cart will match a Dynavector DV20 MC soundwise at a fraction of the cost and it can do all kinds of music really well. Sony use it for professional transcribing.

If you decide you don't like the SME III then a Rega 250/300 or 301 would be the obvious alternative and on a 1200USD budget you would have plenty of change for a decent MC cart. I don't think this is comprehensively better than the SME III though. It's more balanced with a wider range of music but has a slightly grey sounding midrange which needs a smooth sounding cart to counter. I have two decks fitted with Rega arms and one has a Dynavector DV20 feeding that smooth Marantz phonostage another has a Denon 103 feeding a Naim phonostage. To go to the next level you'd really want to be upgrading the arm to at least an SME 309 or IV which is twice your budget.

As I said I'd get hold of a Rega arm and compare them before parting with the SME as you won't loose money on selling it. I'd reckon you'll get more than 150USD anyway as I sold mine in the end for more than double that as they are reasonably rare.

I'd also leave some money for a few tweaks to the Technics. Sorbothane feet and a decent wallshelf will work wonders if you don't have a concrete/stone floor. Also a better mat would be a worthwhile upgrade. The isoplatmat, Acromat or Herbie's ones would all be good to try.
post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Awesome, thanks for all the tips. Unfortunately it looks like my SME is scrap according to what they said. So it looks like i'm just going straight to a different tonearm and cart.
post #6 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by theHof View Post
Awesome, thanks for all the tips. Unfortunately it looks like my SME is scrap according to what they said. So it looks like i'm just going straight to a different tonearm and cart.
I'd want to know what exactly is "scrap" about the SME as it's a modular design so all the parts are replaceable. It's more a question of whether there is so much damage that it's deemed beyond repair for economic reasons. Even if this is the case you'll still get a good price for it on ebay as someone out there somewhere around the world will want to repair it I guarantee.

Soundsupports - Home these guys make nice aluminium mounts as you'll need to put some sort of plate over the SME hole in your plinth to convert it to Rega or Linn pattern for the arms mentioned below. basically you get a mounting template which tells you the distance from the centre of the spindle that the arm base needs to be and screw the new plate to cover the old hole and mount the new with the correct geometry.

Vinyl Engine | The Home of the Turntable has a database of tonearms and free downloadable mounting patterns so you can probably measure this and get a pre-cut plate or else get a blank one and cut it yourself. Of course you can also just make your own plate from a piece of wood or acrylic as well if you are any use at DIY.

The Rega arms or others based on this design like the Origin Live or Michell Tecnoarm would be the cheapest. Depending on currency exchange rates also check the Jelco arms, the best of which is the 250ST on a budget. Pro-Ject also make some good tonearms at this level although they have become expensive. The Sound Hi-Fi link above is pretty comprehensive although they don't like the Rega arms for some reason.

The Rega arms are really good value and will mount any cart really, but some people just don't like the sound which can be described sometimes as a little analytic or else flat and grey in the midrange, lacking warmth and tonal quality depending on your taste in music.

Technically the Rega is very uncoloured and controlled and can track very expensive moving coils. The tweaked up versions like the Michell and OL Silver smooth out some of the issues a lot of people have with them. So the choice is either a basic Rega with a decent MC like the Dynavector which works really well or a Shelter or Denon perhaps, or else a more expensive arm with a cheaper cart.

In principle it's better to spend more on the arm than the cart as the cart can only track as well as the arm allows. The plinth mounting obviously plays a big role here too. For around 1000USD you have more choice of arms like a Roksan Nima unipivot or Tabriz, Helius Scorpio, Clearaudio Satisfy as well as the aforementioned OL Silver and Michel Tecnoarm. Jelco also make a higher mass arm along the lines of the old Sumiko which is slightly cheaper. SME don't start much this side of 2000USD I'm afraid.
post #7 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by memepool View Post
In principle it's better to spend more on the arm than the cart as the cart can only track as well as the arm allows. The plinth mounting obviously plays a big role here too. For around 1000USD you have more choice of arms like a Roksan Nima unipivot or Tabriz, Helius Scorpio, Clearaudio Satisfy as well as the aforementioned OL Silver and Michel Tecnoarm. Jelco also make a higher mass arm along the lines of the old Sumiko which is slightly cheaper. SME don't start much this side of 2000USD I'm afraid.
So i'd probly be better off getting a used arm I think. I've seen Tabriz, Satisfys, and other unipivots go for $400-500ish, in this case then would I still want to spend say something like 4-500 on a cart? and i was just quoting what they said after they saw the pics, they said it was beyond repair, i'm sure it could be done but not cost effectively, i'm going to keep it for some diy ventures.
post #8 of 14
Thread Starter 
If anyone has any experience, I understand different equipment is different sound. So I understand I probly won't get super amazing sound across every genre of music I listen to with 1 Cart on 1 Arm w/ 1 Phono. For this first venture the things I really want some "wow" in songs with characteristics found in these few songs.

Sigur Ros - Ný Batterí (vocals and symbals)
Mumford & Sons - Little Lion Man (guitars, banjo, piano, cello. and the soul haha, i'm planning on a woo6 or other tube)
Pink Floyd - Dogs (guitar and bass)
post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 
Alright, another option. What are the thoughts on a setup like this?
Isolation Feet and New Mat
Used Satisfy Tonearm
Benz MC Gold or Clearaudio Aurum Alpha Mk2
Cambridge 640P
WooAudio 3+
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by theHof View Post
Alright, another option. What are the thoughts on a setup like this?
Isolation Feet and New Mat
Used Satisfy Tonearm
Benz MC Gold or Clearaudio Aurum Alpha Mk2
Cambridge 640P
WooAudio 3+
Sounds like a nice set up. the Clearaudio arm will be a great deal if you can score one for 500USD. Make sure the bearings are sound though. Don't you have an audio dealer nearby where you can go and listen to different arms / carts?

Cartridgewise I'd prefer the Benz over the Clearaudio Aurum, although the latter will sound more like a Shelter which was your original preference. I've not heard the Gold but Benz are usually pretty smooth sounding going by the others I've heard like the Glider and an obsure italian cart I have from the same stable.


BTW> The Tabriz and Satisfy are fixed gimablled designs rather than unipivots. Read more here Arm design [English]
post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by theHof View Post
Just picked up an amazing Technics SP-15 in the Technics plinth with an SME Series III tonearm for $150.
Please endeavour to get yourself run over by a bus today.
I hate you.
post #12 of 14
I paid $150 and all I got was this:


Technics SL-1100A

I'm jealous.
post #13 of 14
Thread Starter 
Update: The TT is fully functional (almost, just needs a tonearm). I've decided just to sell it and get a Clear Audio Emotion, the price on that turntable with a Satisfy arm and Maestro Cart really can't be much better... Just want some opinions, how much do you think I could get for it now, and how much do you think I could get if it had a Jelco tonearm installed on it?
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by theHof View Post
Update: The TT is fully functional (almost, just needs a tonearm). I've decided just to sell it and get a Clear Audio Emotion, the price on that turntable with a Satisfy arm and Maestro Cart really can't be much better... Just want some opinions, how much do you think I could get for it now, and how much do you think I could get if it had a Jelco tonearm installed on it?
SP15s are rare enough. I'd say Audiogon would get a good price. The SP10 usually goes for around 600-1000UKP for jus the motorboard and PSU depending on condition.
If you want to max out the income sell the arm separately as a spares repairs project or else strip it down and sell the parts separately. The wand alone goes for 100-200USD.
But as I say you'd be bonkers to sell it. It's like getting a slightly beat up vintage Ferrari for next to nothing and trading it in for a new VW.
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