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Are there better IEMs than the ER4P for classical? - Page 4

post #46 of 69
"I can think of very few circumstances where bass provides the most interesting part of a melody so why exaggerate it and drown out more interesting instruments? "
Hey! There are bassists out there, myself included! ^^
Moreover, I can show you many many styles where bass is prominent and carries lots of informations.
post #47 of 69
Thread Starter 
Question, what's the lowest price that anyone has found the UM3X and e-q7 for from an online retailer?
post #48 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD1975 View Post
I also listen to a lot of classical and opera music and I would disagree that the IE8 is a good choice. I can just about stand the IE8s for some pop music, but their sound is just too bass heavy for orchestral music.

I was listening to some Rossini last night and I decided to give the IE8s another chance to impress me. During a quieter passage in the overture there was supposed to be some subtle bass notes on the fourth beat of each bar underpinning a more delicate and interesting flute line floating over the top. On the IE8s the bass notes sounded like uncontrolled and exaggerated hippo farts drowning out the detail of the more important treble flourishes. I just couldn't stand listening to them for another minute, and quickly reverted to my preferred UM3x.

I'm beginning to really regret buying the IE8s as an alternative IEM to my UM3x. Once upon a time I considered myself a basshead, but after growing used to the UM3x sound signature I can no longer understand why exaggerated bass is considered "fun". Bass heavy IEMs like the IE8 just make me think of people who drive around in pimped-up cars with ridiculous sub-woofers in the car boot blasting out tuneless fairground music. I can think of very few circumstances where bass provides the most interesting part of a melody so why exaggerate it and drown out more interesting instruments?
I know what you are talking about.details with the ie8 ARE there,but the huge midbass hump overshadows it and make the ie8 veiled or dark iem.but I have to disagree that the ie8 is bot suitable for classical.the soundstage,sense of space and airness and instrument seperation makes for a very pleasurable listening experaince WITH limits ofcourse in comparison to full size headphones.as I said before I hate listening to classical and chamber with any of my iems for alot of reasons.
post #49 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by midoo1990 View Post
I know what you are talking about.details with the ie8 ARE there,but the huge midbass hump overshadows it and make the ie8 veiled or dark iem.but I have to disagree that the ie8 is bot suitable for classical.the soundstage,sense of space and airness and instrument seperation makes for a very pleasurable listening experaince WITH limits ofcourse in comparison to full size headphones.
x2. BTW, you should really try foam modding your FX500, treble on mine is much more agreeable now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD1975 View Post
I also listen to a lot of classical and opera music and I would disagree that the IE8 is a good choice. I can just about stand the IE8s for some pop music, but their sound is just too bass heavy for orchestral music.
....
I'm beginning to really regret buying the IE8s as an alternative IEM to my UM3x. Once upon a time I considered myself a basshead, but after growing used to the UM3x sound signature I can no longer understand why exaggerated bass is considered "fun".
Agreed, but why discard an otherwise excellent IEM with fantastic timbre and soundstage when all it needs is a little EQing? I can easily EQ down the IE8's bass hump, but I couldn't do anything about the UM3X's soundstage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD1975 View Post
I can think of very few circumstances where bass provides the most interesting part of a melody so why exaggerate it and drown out more interesting instruments?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Photofan1986 View Post
I can show you many many styles where bass is prominent and carries lots of informations.
There are plenty of examples, even with classical. Of course bass is not a main concern if you listen to cheerful chamber music. But put on a Mahler symphony. Unrest. Unease. Turmoil. Magnificence. You'd miss half of the story without sufficient bass. Just like with movie soundtracks, there's a wealth of emotions portrayed or emphasized by bass.
post #50 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
Agreed, but why discard an otherwise excellent IEM with fantastic timbre and soundstage when all it needs is a little EQing? I can easily EQ down the IE8's bass hump, but I couldn't do anything about the UM3X's soundstage.
I tried a bit of EQing with the IE8s last night and managed to find a much more satisfactory sound by boosting the mids rather than toning down the bass. I prefer to not have to EQ though.

However, I don't really understand all the raving about the IE8s "soundstage".

This is just my personal experience, but with the UM3x I visualize music as playing across the surface of a small sphere inside my head, but I visualize music on my IE8s as playing across a flatter sheet. I think the "headstage" on the IE8 is wider than the UM3x but it's got less depth so sounds slightly less detailed and with poorer instrument separation.

I'm using custom sleeves on my IE8s, as I had no joy with any of the supplied tips, and I think that the sleeves might have slightly reduced my sense of soundstage/headstage. If I hadn't forked out £90 for custom sleeves I would have sold the IE8s on by now.

I know the UM3x doesn't provide a realistic sense of being surrounded by music in a concert hall, but then neither does the IE8 in my opinion, and I actually enjoy the internal headstage of the UM3x and have no problem with it's perceived narrowness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
There are plenty of examples, even with classical. Of course bass is not a main concern if you listen to cheerful chamber music. But put on a Mahler symphony. Unrest. Unease. Turmoil. Magnificence. You'd miss half of the story without sufficient bass. Just like with movie soundtracks, there's a wealth of emotions portrayed or emphasized by bass.
Oh, I know that bass parts can play a signficant part in classical music, but just not all the time. I believe that if a recording is well engineered the bass part will be loud and powerful, or more subtle and recessed, as and when necessary. However, as I said, there are certain passages I've listended to where I really don't think the bass was intended to stand out but with the IE8s it just jumps out and creates an annoying disturbance.

For me, the UM3x provides the right amount of bass when necessary but doesn't overpower other sections of the orchestra within a more general mix of sound.
post #51 of 69
^^i have to disagree with you again,the ie8 soundstage is FANTASTIC for an iem and it HAS great horizontal and lateral soundstage with excellent depth.Believe me the ie8 soundstage is COHERENT and not wider than deeper.I sold my k701 for two reasons:1-for their artificial soundstage that was very very very wide and with little depth which made for a very irritating listening experiance.2-because of the metallic artificial treble.
The ie8 soundstage again is fantastic with excellent depth.
post #52 of 69
^ I find that IE8 soundstage is lacking some height. To my ears CK10 have better height in soundstage.
post #53 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by midoo1990 View Post
^^i have to disagree with you again,the ie8 soundstage is FANTASTIC for an iem and it HAS great horizontal and lateral soundstage with excellent depth.Believe me the ie8 soundstage is COHERENT and not wider than deeper.I sold my k701 for two reasons:1-for their artificial soundstage that was very very very wide and with little depth which made for a very irritating listening experiance.2-because of the metallic artificial treble.
The ie8 soundstage again is fantastic with excellent depth.
All I can say is what the IE8 sounds like to my ears ... wide and flat ... though you're more than entitled to think differently. My main point was that "soundstage" (which I don't think really exists with IEMs and is more a case of "headstage") isn't particuarly important to me, while instrument separation is.

I think it's fair to say I'm not going to change your mind, and I've got to the point where I don't think I'm going to change my opinion of the IE8s.
post #54 of 69
I think IE8 has great soundstage only if the seal is poor. And if the seal is poor, the isolation suffers immensely and the rich IE8 sound turns into a sequence of cymbals crashes in any noisy place. If the seal is good, on the other hand, IE8 soundstage becomes nothing special. It sounds mostly in the head like with other IEMs and even more closed in than UM3X IMO. Also, treble quality of IE8 is really not that great I think - at least it can't touch my RE0 and is not as smooth as my e-Q7 treble.

Just my 2 cents of course.
post #55 of 69
^ x2. I personally don't find the IE8 soundstage to be impressively big (if with a good seal as you said). But, I don't mean to be rude here, a poor seal will make almost every IEMs to have big soundstage (at least bigger when compared to a proper seal). It just like having 2 speakers singing near your ears.
post #56 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by KLS View Post
^ x2. I personally don't find the IE8 soundstage to be impressively big (if with a good seal as you said). But, I don't mean to be rude here, a poor seal will make almost every IEMs to have big soundstage (at least bigger when compared to a proper seal). It just like having 2 speakers singing near your ears.
That's very true. That's why I sometimes prefer not getting a good seal with any of my IEMs, even those that require one for hearing proper bass. That being said, in case of IE8, I find that a poor seal has far less obvious negative effects than with other IEMs I tried. Because the bass is so overblown with a poor seal, the quantity actually becomes about right and also the treble becomes more prominent and that's why it is easier to notice that the treble quality is not that great. When the seal is solid, the bass becomes unbearable without EQ to my ears and the treble becomes a bit recessed and in the background compared to mids and bass and thus it becomes much harder to notice that it is of not very high quality,
post #57 of 69
I don't agree with you guys at all here,it is as if you were talking about another iem.KLS,there is a difference between height and depth,and I find all my iems to have at best mediacore height in soundstage.but with depth,the ie8,ck10 and fx500 have a very good depth and the soundstage is not wider than deeper.maybe it's a seal issue you had with the ie8,I don't really know.
Pianist:What do you mean by"cymbals crahses in a noisy place"?Actually cymbals on the ie8 are not"sharp" or crisp,they are a little bit muted so I don't know what you mean.Also the ir8 treble is the smoothest I have ever heard and I can't believe there is something smoother as you say eq-7(James can you elaborate here?).I would like to here different opinion in this matter.
post #58 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post
That's very true. That's why I sometimes prefer not getting a good seal with any of my IEMs, even those that require one for hearing proper bass. That being said, in case of IE8, I find that a poor seal has far less obvious negative effects than with other IEMs I tried. Because the bass is so overblown with a poor seal, the quantity actually becomes about right and also the treble becomes more prominent and that's why it is easier to notice that the treble quality is not that great. When the seal is solid, the bass becomes unbearable without EQ to my ears and the treble becomes a bit recessed and in the background compared to mids and bass and thus it becomes much harder to notice that it is of not very high quality,
Pianist I don't find the IE8 to have poor treble quality at all. In fact, I find its treble to be one of its better traits. Its not the most prominent nor is it as sharp or highly focused as some other IEMs like the TF10, ER4P etc, but I find them to be the most natural and extended highs with very good detail that I've heard. What is it about the treble that makes you think they're poor?
post #59 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post
That's very true. That's why I sometimes prefer not getting a good seal with any of my IEMs, even those that require one for hearing proper bass. That being said, in case of IE8, I find that a poor seal has far less obvious negative effects than with other IEMs I tried. Because the bass is so overblown with a poor seal, the quantity actually becomes about right and also the treble becomes more prominent and that's why it is easier to notice that the treble quality is not that great. When the seal is solid, the bass becomes unbearable without EQ to my ears and the treble becomes a bit recessed and in the background compared to mids and bass and thus it becomes much harder to notice that it is of not very high quality,
Yeah I second you on this. A poor seal seems to make things about right for IE8. But, I am not sure whether IE8 has changed after a 500hrs+ burn-in, or my brain has actually adapted to the IE8's sound signature, even with a good seal, I don't find the bass to be over prominent, or overwhelming compared to a poor seal. I have to admit that I become a basshead, after I bought IE8

EDIT: I read things in the wrong way. I misread that you said the treble quality is great. Actually I like the treble's presentation of IE8 very much. It's kind of laid-back, not harsh, and I prefer them over others IEMs I have as a 'sleep phone'.
post #60 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by midoo1990 View Post
I don't agree with you guys at all here,it is as if you were talking about another iem.KLS,there is a difference between height and depth,and I find all my iems to have at best mediacore height in soundstage.but with depth,the ie8,ck10 and fx500 have a very good depth and the soundstage is not wider than deeper.maybe it's a seal issue you had with the ie8,I don't really know.
Pianist:What do you mean by"cymbals crahses in a noisy place"?Actually cymbals on the ie8 are not"sharp" or crisp,they are a little bit muted so I don't know what you mean.Also the ir8 treble is the smoothest I have ever heard and I can't believe there is something smoother as you say eq-7(James can you elaborate here?).I would like to here different opinion in this matter.
e-Q7 treble is smoother/more neutral and clearer. IE8 treble is more refined, but a bit peaky and harsh and just not quite as clear as that on e-Q7. RE0 has the best of both worlds - a very refined treble that is also very smooth and clear. Also, like I said, the treble harshness with IE8 only becomes apparent when the seal is off and especially when you are in a noisy place, when the highs come through better than other frequencies. With a tight seal, treble does not sound harsh because it becomes more recessed and also because isolation is improved.
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