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Are there better IEMs than the ER4P for classical? - Page 2

post #16 of 69
Quote:
Classical requires some awesome bass, if you've ever been in front of a full orchestra. The timpanis resound, not only on impact but on sustain. They blast and then continue booming. The double bass also resounds, with some passages requiring that the player strike the bow heavily, causing a very visceral sound. With a cymbal crash comes the loud boom of the bass drum under it.
I listen to a lot of classical and wholeheartedly second this. IMO, if you want to come as close as possible to the real thing, avoid balanced armature based IEMs. I have not heard the ER4P but the BA phones I know (SF5 Pro, SE530, CK10, CK100) all fall short in portraying the dynamics of a full orchestra, even though some of them are considered way more bassy than the Etys. Moreover, to my ears timbre is more natural with dynamic drivers.

IE8 are most impressive with orchestra, but bass is too much and needs an EQ. HJE900 are good too if you foam mod them to dampen the highs a bit. FX500 have fantastic dynamics and bass but the highs are quite harsh. RE0 are a common recommendation but considered bass light. I'll get a loaner pair next week, so I can't say anything more for now.

Last but not least my favorite IEMs for classical are the budget Playaz N1, extremely open and airy with vast soundstage, but they suffer from driver crackling (not suitable on the move) and need heavy EQing that you can only do with Rockbox or a Cowon IME.
post #17 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
I listen to a lot of classical and wholeheartedly second this. IMO, if you want to come as close as possible to the real thing, avoid balanced armature based IEMs. I have not heard the ER4P but the BA phones I know (SF5 Pro, SE530, CK10, CK100) all fall short in portraying the dynamics of a full orchestra, even though some of them are considered way more bassy than the Etys. Moreover, to my ears timbre is more natural with dynamic drivers.

IE8 are most impressive with orchestra, but bass is too much and needs an EQ. HJE900 are good too if you foam mod them to dampen the highs a bit. FX500 have fantastic dynamics and bass but the highs are quite harsh. RE0 are a common recommendation but considered bass light. I'll get a loaner pair next week, so I can't say anything more for now.

Last but not least my favorite IEMs for classical are the budget Playaz N1, extremely open and airy with vast soundstage, but they suffer from driver crackling (not suitable on the move) and need heavy EQing that you can only do with Rockbox or a Cowon IME.
Hey James. I am surprised you didn't mention Ortofon e-Q7. To my ears, it is the best IEM for classical I've heard so far. Like you said, IE8 has way too much bass and also lacks clarity and detail compared to the e-Q7. It also sounds more boxy. RE0 has the best treble quality and extension and the best overall tonal balance, but lacks dynamic range for complex music.
post #18 of 69
Thread Starter 
Oh, thanks for mentioning dynamic. That's a must, too. Classical has a lot of complex passages.

Balanced armatures aren't dynamic? Are you speaking from personal experience or is that an inherent technical limitation?

The IE8 looks good but it's a little out of my price range. Too bassy isn't good. And I heard that the presentation is laid-back/the soundstage very large, like sitting far away in the back?

HJE900 sound good. How's the imaging and separation compared to the ER4P?

The Ortofon e-q7 is way out of my price range.

Thanks again for the help, guys.
post #19 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by imackler View Post
I'm going to have to throw out that I'm really enjoying the UM3X w/ classical, best I've heard so far. They're also a lot more comfortable for me than the deep insertion Ety (some people don't mind though.) The UM3X is really nice from bass to treble, but also w/ pleasant mids that are essential to classical. It costs a little bit more than some of the others you described but is the most balanced IEM i've heard. The soundstage is lacking but the instruement separation and detail are fantastic.
X2. The UM3's are great for Classical
post #20 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post
Hey James. I am surprised you didn't mention Ortofon e-Q7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bum Rush View Post
The Ortofon e-q7 is way out of my price range.
That was the main reason. In addition to that, while the e-Q7's clarity, timbre and transparency is superb with classical, I prefer in fact the largest soundstage possible, which means the IE8 and Playaz N1. You're right the IE8 can't touch the Ortofons in clarity, but with EQd bass hump they become a different phone IMO, with better detail and not at all sounding boxy to my ears.
post #21 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bum Rush View Post
Oh, thanks for mentioning dynamics. That's a must. I also forgot to mention that the IEM should be fast, too. Classical has a lot of complex passages.

Balanced armatures aren't dynamic? Are you speaking from personal experience or is that an inherent technical limitation?
He was referring to dynamic driver earphones as opposed to balanced armature earphones.
post #22 of 69
I feel classical is the hardest genre as it's got music across all the frequencies, would need some really detailed customs.
post #23 of 69
^ Sigh.
post #24 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bum Rush View Post
Oh, thanks for mentioning dynamics. That's a must. I also forgot to mention that the IEM should be fast, too. Classical has a lot of complex passages.

Balanced armatures aren't dynamic? Are you speaking from personal experience or is that an inherent technical limitation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by iponderous View Post
He was referring to dynamic driver earphones as opposed to balanced armature earphones.
Yes and no. I was referring to dynamic driver earphones and mentioning that they portray the dynamics of a full orchestra more impressively to me than the BA phones I've heard. I like that part about resound in the OP's quote, it pinpoints exactly what I mean. Of course it's the hardest balancing act, rendering resound realistically and being fast at the same time.
post #25 of 69
Quote:
Classical requires some awesome bass, if you've ever been in front of a full orchestra. The timpanis resound, not only on impact but on sustain. They blast and then continue booming. The double bass also resounds, with some passages requiring that the player strike the bow heavily, causing a very visceral sound. With a cymbal crash comes the loud boom of the bass drum under it.
Though I seldom listen to classic, I like how IE8 performs in instruments. IE8 has a very laid back treble, and good bass (quanlity and quantity wise, to my ears, though I have to admit that the bass does run over the mids sometime), and a warm sound makes me choose IE8 over CK10 and TF10 for instruments. But seems that you have a limiting budget, you have to look else where.
post #26 of 69
here's an idea:

Get the Ety4p instead of the "S"--don't need an amp wih the P altho it would help later

Change eartips to Comply 100X--the ones wsith the built-in filters so you're not having to change the Ety filters as often

The Comply tips give a better bass presentation and, to me, are more comfortable than the Ety-supplied tips

OR--see if you can borrow a set of Etys from someone here to try.

I've owned Etys for years listen to classical and jazz, have been thru aout half a dozen high-end IEMs and still come back to Etys for their presentation--and my most recent were those REOs which didn't begin to compare to the Ety sound
post #27 of 69
As a sidenote, I am surprised ER4's would EVER be recommended for classical.

IMHO classical needs a vast, large full sound to capture the symphonic experience. ER4 does not do this. Also, with so much going on and so many instruments you need an IEM that can handle "busy" passages of music when it gets going. This is another fault of ER4. But I would definitely agree on the UM3X choice!
post #28 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnmike1 View Post

I've owned Etys for years listen to classical and jazz, have been thru aout half a dozen high-end IEMs and still come back to Etys for their presentation-- and my most recent were those REOs which didn't begin to compare to the Ety sound
My thoughts exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
As a sidenote, I am surprised ER4's would EVER be recommended for classical.
It's good that we all agree on this.

This folks is why you NEED to listen and decide for yourself.
post #29 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatDane View Post
My thoughts exactly



It's good that we all agree on this.

This folks is why you NEED to listen and decide for yourself.
LOL! Two comments...

1. I would guess well over 80% of people looking for advice here are looking for IEM's used UNAMPED straight out of a DAP so this should be kept in mind or a disclaimer should me made by the poster (or responding poster) saying their comments are based on use with an amp which will matter with many IEM's.

2. Not sure how anyone could deny that (unamped) Etys struggle with busy passages of music where it all starts mushing together. ALL single driver BA's exhibit this however the newer gen hybrid BA's (Orotron, GR-8) handle it much more gracefully. AMPING the ER4 also helps.

Just my $0.02....
post #30 of 69
Important notes Spyro(no.1). I do always amp my IEMs...even for sleep I amp my i7 with SR-71A for PFE...although this is not really necessary.

The ER4 does improve quite a bit when amped,especially for higher listening levels with demanding music.
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