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Originally Posted by BaboonGuy  |
Wow, that review link is awesome! I much prefer reading reviews by actual audio production professionals instead of audiophiles, because the pros know exactly what they're talking about and knows all the correct terminologies for describing audio characteristics, whereas audiophiles use useless touchy feely terms that are totally subjective.
Reading that guy's reviews tells me everything I'd need to know about the headphones described.
Man, I wish I was still in the States--then I could get ear molds made. I love the idea that an IEM can be so good that you'd use them for everything--from portable listening to home listening.
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Originally Posted by Minishark I'm going to suggest something a little unorthodox here: mix using the crappy stock iPod earbuds. Honestly.
More people listen through those things than any other headphones. If you can get your mix to sound good on those, then it's a good mix.
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Your suggestion is one of the most talked about topics in the hobbyist audio production communities, and while it may sound rational, it's faulty in logic. To mix audio so that it sounds the most accurate on the most neutral sounding audio device is the only option, because a totally neutral device is the middle ground between all the diverse speakers and headphones in existence. If you mix with something that is already colored, then you are tilting the balance of the mix in one skewed direction, and if someone is listening on devices with the opposite sonic characteristics of the colored devices you used to mix, they will hear absolutely trash because the amount of coloration they hear would be double.
Also, it's impossible to predict what people will be using to listen to your music. There are literatlly hundreds and thousands of car stereo speakers, headphones, hi-fi speakers, studio monitors, boomboxes...etc on the market. That is why it's always best to mix on the most neutral sounding device you can find, so that at least you are not tilting your mix in any direction thus making your music sound even worse on other devices. This knowledge is pretty much pro audio mixing 101.
There are some pro audio people who use colored monitors (like the Yamaha NS-10's) as a secondary reference because they sound like a reasonable average of consumer speakers, but there are just as many audio professionals who disagree with that approach. Just about all the audio professionals will burn CD's of their mix and listen in the car, in their living room, on their portable player...etc to get an idea how well their mix translates to a variety of devices. But the holy grail has always been finding that ideal neutral pair of speakers/headphones so you can totally trust them while mixing, and the result of the mix will sound good on any variety of device you listen to the mix on.
So to summarize--if you use neutral devices to mix, then the resulting mix wll be a neutral middle ground that should sound good on all devices, and if there's any coloration to be heard, it'll come from the coloration of the devices used, not from the original mix itself.
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Originally Posted by catscratch Yeah, but the problem is that sub-bass is felt as much as heard, and headphones simply cannot produce that, and will sound deficient in sub-bass even when they're putting out as much audible sub-bass as they need to. So to compensate most manufacturers turn up the more audible parts of bass - mid and upper bass - and while it does sound more balanced overall it still screws up FR something fierce, and is nowhere near accurate enough for any kind of serious work.
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While that is true in many cases, I really think that there's been technological breakthroughs in the last decade or so, and today's headphones are getting so close, with very few high-end models already there. While I may not feel the vibration in my body from the sub-bass of headphones, as long as my perceived volume of the sub-bass is accurate, then I can still easily make proper mix decisions. For example, I use this site often to check the tonal balance of a device:
Equal loudness contours and audiometry - Test your own hearing
If the sub-bass region is too rolled off, then you'll see/hear it immediately.
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Originally Posted by catscratch Honestly, you're better off with monitors, and if you can't use them during certain hours, then you're probably better off working on that problem rather than trying to find headphones that do something impossible.
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I'm not one to give up easily, so I'll keep trying. Perhaps I'll try to find a way to get ear molds made, since the JH-13 (and now the JH-16 is also out) has never gotten a bad review--ever, and everyone agrees that it is totally flat and reproduces all audible frequencies accurately and beautifully.
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Originally Posted by catscratch Stax 4070 is pretty good supposedly. A well-driven Omega 2 is about as good as it gets for bass depth, detail, and imaging accuracy but the "well-driven" part is a bit of a catch... and basically means you need a BHSE, or maybe a WES.
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In terms of logistics, I think the JH products are far more pragmatic in terms of overall lifestyle and practical applications. Only exception is that when at home, I prefer to be able to still hear the phone/door bell ring, and IEM's will make it difficult. This is why I prefer open-back headphones when at home.
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Originally Posted by catscratch I do agree about neutral setups not lacking any kind of bass though. I was pretty surprised the first time I heard a really high-end system that was flat 20-20, it didn't sound anything like a lot of what's called neutral around here.
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That is definitely a problem around here. Many people have never heard a full-range system capable of good sub-bass reproduction, and the only time they might have heard a good system was when they went to the movie theater. What most people call "neutral" here is just bass-shy. Also, most members here are not musicians or audio professonals--not even audio production hobbyists that have taken time to learn about proper mixes and frequency ranges. They use all the wrong terminologies, have misguided mentalities about sound and its various characteristics, and they also regurgitate all the misinformation they read around here. It's hard to find people who really know what they're talking about around here, but there are some who actually are audio professionals or serious hobbyists that have done their homework regarding mixing professional audio, and I always trust their reviews and comments more.
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