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AGAINST JH/UE DRIVER WARS: A First view of EarSonics EM3-Pro Customs - Page 3

post #31 of 170
Waiting for more @shigzeo!
post #32 of 170
Great review man, can't wait to read the rest I'm going to eventually get customs so it's always great to read that new ones came out
post #33 of 170
geez.... shigzeo. LOL.

you are sweeping all customs that is available to you! nice customs, they look great.
post #34 of 170
Hahaha, so many customs, but still only one pair of ears ...
post #35 of 170
What I don't like is the connector, but then, I don't like the JHA/Westone connector. You CAN ask Earsonics to build a countersunk model for you, but I didn't think of that.

excellent earphone. wishy-washy connector. I wonder if the Sleek CT7 model can be adapted to it? I love that connector, but the cable is pretty much rubbish.
post #36 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
What I don't like is the connector, but then, I don't like the JHA/Westone connector. You CAN ask Earsonics to build a countersunk model for you, but I didn't think of that.

excellent earphone. wishy-washy connector. I wonder if the Sleek CT7 model can be adapted to it? I love that connector, but the cable is pretty much rubbish.
Sleek Audio is using barrel connectors, which are fairly common. But it's always difficult to go the proprietary road, and particularly for a small company like Earsonics. Just imagine one second : you're a small european company, people abroad are kind of wary about buying your products because you're far, and on top of that they have to order their cables specifically from your company. Tough decision.

By keeping 2 pins cables, at least users abroad can buy cables without ordering across an ocean.
post #37 of 170
True. Sleek could have the best connecting system if only their cable was better. But I hope some big company changes the cables away from that breaky-fakey two-pin system that holds the reigns now. FitEars' is good, but doesn't allow for graphics.

There is no win is there?

If taken care of, they should last a long time, though, but the whole system is just... weak.
post #38 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
True. Sleek could have the best connecting system if only their cable was better. But I hope some big company changes the cables away from that breaky-fakey two-pin system that holds the reigns now. FitEars' is good, but doesn't allow for graphics.

There is no win is there?

If taken care of, they should last a long time, though, but the whole system is just... weak.
FitEar's Japanese, and the object of a master has to speak for itself in Japan. I'm almost sure Suyama san doesn't include this kind of thing in his engineering, because he thinks it's not supposed to be important.

With companies working with different systems, things should evolve pretty fast. I bet you that UE is gonna change their system in the near future when they'll see that more and more companies are moving away from the 2 pins system. SA was probably a precursor of what's coming. In any case, the more companies trying, the more chances we have to see a new standard emerge. I put my money on barrel connectors, but which size and the form of it are everyone's guess.
post #39 of 170
^ I have to agree with the barrel connectors coming in next. I only changed cables on my Triples a few times but every time I did I felt like something was going to go drastically wrong. I'd love a sturdier connector.
post #40 of 170
Well, (this is so off-topic), but I see triple fi's more than any other earphone (1-3 a week) come into the office (when I visit it) to get replaced. The two prong system works better for customs, but when it goes sour, it really goes sour.
post #41 of 170
I was just going to put in my order for the JH 16 Pro but now you got me all confused...
Can you tell me with what kind of music you listened to your Earsonics? I listen to all kinds of Metal and I love the sound of my Triple.Fi but now I want more detail and more punch for the bass which is why I figured the JH 16 Pro would be the best to get.
I see that the Earsonics have a triple armature but use it in a dual low/single high armature setting. So they are more simliar to the Triple.Fi's than to the JH 13/16 or UE 11/18. I just fear that they might not be as detailed because of that?
What speaks for them is that they are being produced in France and since I live in Germany, purchasing and refitting them will save a huge amount of time vice the IEMs from JHA or UE.

Maybe you could answer me those questions, so I can make a sound decision on what to get? Many thanks in advance!
post #42 of 170
Let me put it this way: forget the driver/configuration. It is a very even Stephen sort of earphone. I would say it is... neutral. But not exactly neutral to the ear. If you want that, the JH13Pro might be a better choice.

The EM3Pro is mids mostly with flat treble and bass. The problem with that approach is that generally, the ear is rolled off in the bass and treble, so a little accentuation helps. But then, if you do that, you also risk going too far, or having too 'defined' a sound.

If you have a source with a good EQ (rockbox, Cowon), then you can make this earphone sound however you want without worry. It won't distort easily and thought I've not tested it long enough, I would say that it tends to stay pretty flat no matter what source it is plugged into.

If you want 'detail' (usually meaning treble energy), you can EQ it, but otherwise, this earphone is mostly about smooth, tender mids. Bass and treble should be EQ'd for best results.

It is a paper-doll sort of earphone - what you want, you'll get, but you have to know how to do it.

The JH13Pro, and ostensibly the 16Pro, work with the notion that a built-in EQ that more closely matches the ear's attenuation, will be better. I have no preference as both seem to work very well.

There is no hint of harshness and there is lots of detail as long as it doesn't just mean 'treble energy'. But... it isn't immediately 'gawwwwwd that's detailed'.
post #43 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
Let me put it this way: forget the driver/configuration. It is a very even Stephen sort of earphone. I would say it is... neutral. But not exactly neutral to the ear. If you want that, the JH13Pro might be a better choice.

The EM3Pro is mids mostly with flat treble and bass. The problem with that approach is that generally, the ear is rolled off in the bass and treble, so a little accentuation helps. But then, if you do that, you also risk going too far, or having too 'defined' a sound.

If you have a source with a good EQ (rockbox, Cowon), then you can make this earphone sound however you want without worry. It won't distort easily and thought I've not tested it long enough, I would say that it tends to stay pretty flat no matter what source it is plugged into.

If you want 'detail' (usually meaning treble energy), you can EQ it, but otherwise, this earphone is mostly about smooth, tender mids. Bass and treble should be EQ'd for best results.

It is a paper-doll sort of earphone - what you want, you'll get, but you have to know how to do it.

The JH13Pro, and ostensibly the 16Pro, work with the notion that a built-in EQ that more closely matches the ear's attenuation, will be better. I have no preference as both seem to work very well.

There is no hint of harshness and there is lots of detail as long as it doesn't just mean 'treble energy'. But... it isn't immediately 'gawwwwwd that's detailed'.

Going to be pulling the trigger after auditioning the JH13/16's pros as well as the EM3 pros at my UK dealer next Friday ( on a high now!) so am interested also in the views of EM3's to all the countless posts i have digested for four months on JHpros.

Just touching upon the EQ thing which really intrigues me and hope i don't open a can of worms totally here but it is puzzling me to some extent from what i have read in other threads that have the words "JHpro" & "EQ" in the same sentence....

I know it is down to personal preference and some people like it, but does using EQ not negate the very reason for having one of these finely tuned customs only to mess around with it's natural presented sound by adjusting the EQ settings from the dap?

To me is making up for insufficient short comings of a system somewhere within the chain whether it the source (dap) cables or the earphones does not have that natural synergy that the user is looking for and just reverts to using EQ to try and put it right resulting in a false sound. After all and i take into account there are poorly engineered recordings and pressings out there, but EQ adjustments are surly meant to be done at the recording phase in the studio.

I only say this as we are not talking about a £30 pair of iems with a £30 dap for example, it is the top end of portable audio "hi-fi" when custom ear pieces enter the fray when used in conjunction with twag cables maybe and a good dap or seperate hi-fi source as in the parallel universe and equivalent in speaker world Hi-Fi seperates the components are of the highest quality and do not have EQ's on them as they are tuned to to be heard as the manufacturer intended them to be in their pursuit of sound perfection of trying to reproduce the nearest and truest sound from the recorded source it possibly can as are the custom earpieces manufactured by JH, Earsonics & UE for example.

Anyone who has a good speaker set up would not dream of having a EQ in the setup as this defeats the object of trying to strive for that perfect sound from the product, so why is it any different to portable high end audio?

What happens when a speaker Hi-Fi set up has no synergy it's not an EQ that is introduced, but the components in the chain from source to cables amp and speaker all have to have a natural synergy and if not, it usually comes after hours of auditioning different equipment in a listening room until the perfect combination is found.

I admit here it is near damn impossible with this sort of less mass manufactured specialized portable gear to be able to readily pop down to the local dealer and audition this sort of gear, but i would of thought that would be the benchmark to strive for with this sort of price range of high end porta hi-fi gear especially when also used with lossless files and strive for that perfection instead of using a EQ to cover over the cracks?


Hope it did not offend EQ buffs out there, just do not get it when shelling out a lot of £/$'s why go down the EQ route to try and get the sound right?

Maybe someone might enlighten me maybe
post #44 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post
The EM3Pro is mids mostly with flat treble and bass. The problem with that approach is that generally, the ear is rolled off in the bass and treble, so a little accentuation helps. But then, if you do that, you also risk going too far, or having too 'defined' a sound.

If you have a source with a good EQ (rockbox, Cowon), then you can make this earphone sound however you want without worry. It won't distort easily and thought I've not tested it long enough, I would say that it tends to stay pretty flat no matter what source it is plugged into.

If you want 'detail' (usually meaning treble energy), you can EQ it, but otherwise, this earphone is mostly about smooth, tender mids. Bass and treble should be EQ'd for best results.

It is a paper-doll sort of earphone - what you want, you'll get, but you have to know how to do it.
So that's how you would describe the "Lopez touch". Interesting, and pretty coherent given the fact that they care mainly to artist and sound engineers. Market for audiophiles is still extremely small in France and Europe, so professional characteristics are prominent.
post #45 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by FortisFlyer75 View Post
Going to be pulling the trigger after auditioning the JH13/16's pros as well as the EM3 pros at my UK dealer next Friday ( on a high now!) so am interested also in the views of EM3's to all the countless posts i have digested for four months on JHpros.

Just touching upon the EQ thing which really intrigues me and hope i don't open a can of worms totally here but it is puzzling me to some extent from what i have read in other threads that have the words "JHpro" & "EQ" in the same sentence....

I know it is down to personal preference and some people like it, but does using EQ not negate the very reason for having one of these finely tuned customs only to mess around with it's natural presented sound by adjusting the EQ settings from the dap?

To me is making up for insufficient short comings of a system somewhere within the chain whether it the source (dap) cables or the earphones does not have that natural synergy that the user is looking for and just reverts to using EQ to try and put it right resulting in a false sound. After all and i take into account there are poorly engineered recordings and pressings out there, but EQ adjustments are surly meant to be done at the recording phase in the studio.

I only say this as we are not talking about a £30 pair of iems with a £30 dap for example, it is the top end of portable audio "hi-fi" when custom ear pieces enter the fray when used in conjunction with twag cables maybe and a good dap or seperate hi-fi source as in the parallel universe and equivalent in speaker world Hi-Fi seperates the components are of the highest quality and do not have EQ's on them as they are tuned to to be heard as the manufacturer intended them to be in their pursuit of sound perfection of trying to reproduce the nearest and truest sound from the recorded source it possibly can as are the custom earpieces manufactured by JH, Earsonics & UE for example.

Anyone who has a good speaker set up would not dream of having a EQ in the setup as this defeats the object of trying to strive for that perfect sound from the product, so why is it any different to portable high end audio?

What happens when a speaker Hi-Fi set up has no synergy it's not an EQ that is introduced, but the components in the chain from source to cables amp and speaker all have to have a natural synergy and if not, it usually comes after hours of auditioning different equipment in a listening room until the perfect combination is found.

I admit here it is near damn impossible with this sort of less mass manufactured specialized portable gear to be able to readily pop down to the local dealer and audition this sort of gear, but i would of thought that would be the benchmark to strive for with this sort of price range of high end porta hi-fi gear especially when also used with lossless files and strive for that perfection instead of using a EQ to cover over the cracks?


Hope it did not offend EQ buffs out there, just do not get it when shelling out a lot of £/$'s why go down the EQ route to try and get the sound right?

Maybe someone might enlighten me maybe
I hope you didn't either. One thing EQ's are good for (especially in portable audio) is restoring somewhat what the amp (of the internal machine) cannot do. A lot of players have roll off with hard to drive earphones like these.

Some are severe (my fitear 333 - huge treble suckout of about 3-5 decibels) and even the JHA models cause a little bit of confusion.

We are not talking about high end audio here - we are talking about high en ear speaker attached to pretty worthless audio players (for the most part). Sometimes, they need to be EQ'd to get back what they are losing from improperly driving the earphones.

Some earphones, however, tend to have less a negative impact on the output than others.

The EM3Pro is one. However, it looks to be pretty damn flat - in other words, flat like a machine. The mids are most prominent, but the treble and bass are great.

In some ways, it caters to professionals, as French said, but in some ways it shouldn't. No earphone should cater 100% without the professionals finding the deficiencies of their output first, then the deficiencies of their ears second (or vica versa).

At the ear, the JH13Pro may be more neutral, presenting low and upper detail at higher volumes than the EM3Pro. But both presentations will have their fans.

There is no 'right' or 'wrong' simply because we are not all plugged into the same sources with the same ears. If we were, then one would have to go.

EQ is bad is a silly saying, especially with portable sources which may need it. If the sources were 100% accurate under any load, under any stress, with every earphone, then why not?

The EM3Pro goes for signal neutrality, not 'human ear' neutrality. I tend to really like it - a lot.
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › AGAINST JH/UE DRIVER WARS: A First view of EarSonics EM3-Pro Customs