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Isone Pro - the best thing you could ever get for your headphones on your computer - Page 38

post #556 of 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWIFOSP View Post

So the guy that made it likes it?  Noted.

 

You're not going to achieve anything by trolling. 


Edited by kalston - 5/17/12 at 5:36am
post #557 of 854

I can admit I'm being a bit over the top here, but I just having a hard time believing that these "professionals", can't tell the difference between gear on their head and monitors.  The sound signature with this plugin sounds extremely altered and the effect isn't even that convincing.  

 

Sounds like a bunch of used car salesman talk to me.

post #558 of 854
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWIFOSP View Post

I can admit I'm being a bit over the top here, but I just having a hard time believing that these "professionals", can't tell the difference between gear on their head and monitors.  The sound signature with this plugin sounds extremely altered and the effect isn't even that convincing.  

 

Sounds like a bunch of used car salesman talk to me.

 

Except the people who found it very convincing actually took the time to read the user's manual, follow its instructions on how to calibrate the HRTF to match their head and ear sizes, match the speaker distance/angle to their studio monitors, as well as the type of speaker cabinet/format, and the room size, of their studio. They basically worked at trying to recreate their real life listening position with Isone. Did you do all of that? Do you know what their production studios sound like? Can you say with 100% certainty that what they got from Isone isn't actually very similar to what their production studios sound like? Were you there when they did the listening tests? If not, then of course you aren't hearing what they heard and you have no idea what they heard or what they were comparing it to.

 

And none of those people are selling anything. They get excited about something they feel is awesome, just like how people typically do. They rave about stuff they love and want to spread the word about it--just like you probably have done at some point in your life--be it a movie, a TV show, a band, a restaurant, a headphone, a plugin--whatever. 

 

Just because you don't agree with them, does not mean they are somehow being insincere or trying to pull a fast one on others. I don't even know how you had arrived at that conclusion. 

 

Fact is, Jeroen doesn't even make much money with his ToneBooster plugins--it's just a hobby to him--a fun distraction when he's not working on his more "serious" work in the field of audio. Nobody is trying to sell anything--he only made his plugins available to the public because he coded them for himself and thought it would be nice to make them available, and he didn't want to just give them away (since he spent so much time on them, and they are high quality). 

 

If you feel that your hearing is golden and we're all deluded, half-deaf idiots, then yes, messages received loud and clear. What's the point of beating that dead horse over and over? I'm willing to spend time here at head-fi helping others and sharing my love for music/audio, as well as defend something I feel is worth defending. What are you wasting your time here doing? Just trolling?


Edited by Lunatique - 5/17/12 at 7:06am
post #559 of 854

Yes -- I spent a few hours adjusting the settings looking for the sweet spot everyone talks about.  But it was all moot, because just having the plugin enabled in jriver media center meant that there was an unacceptable amount of distortion and compression being introduced.  

 

Cymbals went from sounding like cymbals with correct shimmer and decay to sounding like they were being played from a 128k mp3.  The decay was cut off, shimmer was stepped.  The stepped sound of the shimmer instead of a gradient is something I hear in poorly compressed digital audio all the time.  

 

I never said my hearing was golden, and I never called anyone an idiot, and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.  It doesn't help your case, that is for sure.  I participate in this thread because correct sound stage imaging is my most important factor in listening to music with headphones.  If the music sounds like it is coming from inside my head or from 2 headphone drivers, my brain rejects it and I don't lose myself in the music.  Therefore I am extremely interested in hardware and software solutions like this.  The entire point of this thread of the pros and cons of this software and I'm sorry if you feel offended that I don't act like a cheerleader about something I don't feel works effectively.

post #560 of 854

I'm with TWIFOSP on this one. The plugin messes up tonality and fidelity no matter what settings you are using. The trade off is worth it on a few old recordings with very separated channels.

You are doing a good thing here trying to get the people aware of certain useful products (even better that they are free), and your effort have been honorary doing so, I just want to make that clear. But as always you have to point out that anyone who don't agree that this is better than the second coming of Christ is either using this plugin wrongly (even after he had tried for hours using every possible setting), or is too big an audio noob to even be commenting/use strawman arguments.

post #561 of 854
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWIFOSP View Post

Yes -- I spent a few hours adjusting the settings looking for the sweet spot everyone talks about.  But it was all moot, because just having the plugin enabled in jriver media center meant that there was an unacceptable amount of distortion and compression being introduced.  

 

Cymbals went from sounding like cymbals with correct shimmer and decay to sounding like they were being played from a 128k mp3.  The decay was cut off, shimmer was stepped.  The stepped sound of the shimmer instead of a gradient is something I hear in poorly compressed digital audio all the time.  

 

I never said my hearing was golden, and I never called anyone an idiot, and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.  It doesn't help your case, that is for sure.  I participate in this thread because correct sound stage imaging is my most important factor in listening to music with headphones.  If the music sounds like it is coming from inside my head or from 2 headphone drivers, my brain rejects it and I don't lose myself in the music.  Therefore I am extremely interested in hardware and software solutions like this.  The entire point of this thread of the pros and cons of this software and I'm sorry if you feel offended that I don't act like a cheerleader about something I don't feel works effectively.

I didn't quote you in any way, so I wasn't exactly putting words in your mouth. I merely described how your posts come across (to me). 

 

I really have no idea why Isone sounds so terrible to you. It's a mystery to me, and I wish I had an answer. Isone has a lot of fans--including audio professional and audiophiles/hobbyists alike. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that some of them probably are even more picky than you are about audio, or are more knowledgeable/experienced in audio, and obviously they don't agree with you. Just like I have no answer for why Isone sounds so bad to you, you have no answer for why it sounds so good to others. So it's really just a matter of agreeing to disagree. 

 

As for being offended--I'm not offended at all. I didn't create Isone. I don't make a dime off of depending it. Hell, I don't even get free **** from Jeroen--I'm simply a fan of Isone--something's that's brought me a lot of joy and increased my sonic bliss by a large amount. The least I could do is to pay it back to the community and help spread the word about it. 

 

If you find my attitude hard to stomach, then please read my reply to Sweden below--I'll explain my motivations and why I'm only trying to do good, not harm, to this community.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweden View Post

I'm with TWIFOSP on this one. The plugin messes up tonality and fidelity no matter what settings you are using. The trade off is worth it on a few old recordings with very separated channels.

You are doing a good thing here trying to get the people aware of certain useful products (even better that they are free), and your effort have been honorary doing so, I just want to make that clear. But as always you have to point out that anyone who don't agree that this is better than the second coming of Christ is either using this plugin wrongly (even after he had tried for hours using every possible setting), or is too big an audio noob to even be commenting/use strawman arguments.

Well, I can't help that some of the people who said they didn't "get it" were actually in fact, self-professed audio noobs who didn't know even the basics of audio (noticed I said some, not all, and TWIFOSP obviously isn't a noob--he knows what he wants and is hunting for it), and I felt that I had to try and at least help them understand the basics of audio. I had no way of knowing if the the fact they didn't understand or appreciate Isone was due to their lack of knowledge/experience with audio in general, or they simply just don't like how it sounds. So the only thing I could do was explain to them what HRTF is, how it works, why Isone is supposed to change the frequency response (as our head and ears in real life does when they interact with an acoustic environment), or why the fact it simulates acoustic spaces means it's supposed to have some form of reverb/echo--that's what acoustic spaces do. I had to explain all of that, to be sure they understood exactly why Isone does what it does--it's not a defect that there's reverb/echo, and it's not a defect that the frequency response is altered--it's all part of the design. 

 

I didn't do any of that to force my opinion on others or to overpower them into submission. I was trying to help educate this community, which is made up of mostly hobbyists and enthusiasts--some of which are actually quite passionate about audio and do want to learn this stuff. I could be playing video games or watch movies or snuggling with my wife instead of doing all of this, but I have a passion for teaching (I'm a teacher, in fact), and I enjoy helping others understand and see things in a new/different way. If I seem to come on very strong--it's simply because I live life very passionately, and that is reflected in everything I do (take a spin around my website and you'll see this very clearly). But I NEVER do anything from a place of malice--it's always from a place of goodness. At least that's what I strive for. 


Edited by Lunatique - 5/17/12 at 8:20am
post #562 of 854

2b4f5b61_205516021.jpeg

 

Haters gonna hate...

 

Seriously though.  If you hear gross distortion/digital clipping then turn down the Speaker Level dial until you don't see it clipping on the integrated level meter. (The meter is only in the newer versions upgrade if necessary.)

 

Here's the quick and dirty way to calibrate it.  Find a track that's minimally produced with a natural sound and has lots of instruments with lots of overtones and harmonics like snare drums, bells, and other types of percussion that are panned well off to the side.  Such instruments cover a wide range of frequencies and thus are easier to localize in space IRL.  Load the "Calibrate me!" preset, set it dual mono and play with the Ear size until it sound like it's directly in front of you.  Then set it to left or right and play with the head size until it it sounds like it's coming from a 30 degree angle.

 

That won't be perfect but it should work pretty nicely for most people and you can fine tune from there.  If it doesn't work then you may just not like it or have a catastrophically incompatible HRTF.  Each person's HRTF is different and it is dependent on your individual anatomy.  Isone has useful adjustments but if you're too far from average it just may not work at all for you.

 

Also, another big thanks to Lunatique for introducing me to Isone.  I absolutely love it.  I'm not an audio professional of any kind and use it just listening for pleasure.

post #563 of 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

2b4f5b61_205516021.jpeg

 

 

I lol'd so hard,

but this is very true, this vst is astounding,

You feel in a real room with speaker, the effect is really impressive,

But you need indeed to configure it carefully.

Thanks Lunatique

 

EDIT : I understand TWIFOSP in a way that if you're not used to speakers, it is uncommon to hear music like that.


Edited by Puranti - 5/17/12 at 12:23pm
post #564 of 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puranti View Post

 

I lol'd so hard,

but this is very true, this vst is astounding,

You feel in a real room with speaker, the effect is really impressive,

But you need indeed to configure it carefully.

Thanks Lunatique

 

EDIT : I understand TWIFOSP in a way that if you're not used to speakers, it is uncommon to hear music like that.

 

I listen to both floor stands in my living room and near field monitors in my office.  I also have season tickets to the Austin symphony, so I'm well attuned to what music should sound like.

post #565 of 854

I never said it didn't sound like headphones.  I said it sounded bad.  Especially cymbals.

 

I use jriver which has clipping protection for starters.  I don't turn it on because the peak level with the plugin on never approaches 100.  

 

I have just went through the steps you mentioned with Miles Davis and some Aaron Copland and I can still hear, quite obviously, tinny compressed cymbals with stepped decay when compared to having the plugin off.  The speaker level setting ended up at about 9 o clock and the peak level never went past 50%.

 

The size of your head and ears will have nothing to do with the frequency sounding off, and the processing artifacts that are audible.  You are arguing a point as if I don't believe that it works to put the sound in front of you.  Which what I am saying is that regardless of how the plugin affects the sound stage, the sound quality is noticeably worse.

 

For what it's worth I am using TB_Isone v2.5.0 Demo with JRiver media center 17.0.147.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

 

 

Haters gonna hate...

 

Seriously though.  If you hear gross distortion/digital clipping then turn down the Speaker Level dial until you don't see it clipping on the integrated level meter. (The meter is only in the newer versions upgrade if necessary.)

 

Here's the quick and dirty way to calibrate it.  Find a track that's minimally produced with a natural sound and has lots of instruments with lots of overtones and harmonics like snare drums, bells, and other types of percussion that are panned well off to the side.  Such instruments cover a wide range of frequencies and thus are easier to localize in space IRL.  Load the "Calibrate me!" preset, set it dual mono and play with the Ear size until it sound like it's directly in front of you.  Then set it to left or right and play with the head size until it it sounds like it's coming from a 30 degree angle.

 

That won't be perfect but it should work pretty nicely for most people and you can fine tune from there.  If it doesn't work then you may just not like it or have a catastrophically incompatible HRTF.  Each person's HRTF is different and it is dependent on your individual anatomy.  Isone has useful adjustments but if you're too far from average it just may not work at all for you.

 

Also, another big thanks to Lunatique for introducing me to Isone.  I absolutely love it.  I'm not an audio professional of any kind and use it just listening for pleasure.

post #566 of 854

Well, something is probably wrong with your digital signal chain somewhere.  I've used a few different versions of Isone and I've never heard anything like that.  I use foobar myself but Lunatique uses J River.

post #567 of 854

Why are there such extremes opinions on this thread?  It's either "haters gonna hate" or this plug in "distorts and compresses."  C'mon.

 

The plug in is good, and it works as advertised, and whether you like what it does or not is a different matter.  I feel like that line has been posted a hundred times in this thread.  When I had some clipping issues, I simply adjusted the level knob to fix it.  

 

Did I notice a loss in certain low level detail w/ Isone?  Yes.  But that's only because that's how speakers would sound sitting in a room 2 meters from you!  The goal of the plug in is to create a more natural presentation, which it does pretty well for something that costs so little--increasing detail retrieval is not it's goal.  

 

To do that, get better headphones with a faster diaphragm!  Then make sure your chain is up the task.  And you know what, maybe that's what accounts for the discrepancy in opinions here--from what I see Luna owns O2s.  Stax are hyper detailed.  I've found the most success using Isone with DBA-02/B2 IEMs, also known for being hyper detailed.  The recording/mastering was also a variable.

 

The truth about Isone, as it so often does, lies somewhere in the middle I think.  Isone's not so good as to replace actual speakers, or maybe it's not even as good as the Realizer (gasp).

 

Some may not like it enough to concede that it sounds as good as their speakers.  I can understand that.  Their opinions aren't invalid, and I certainly don't presume that all these people simply need to learn to appreciate it better as a "real life audio professional" might.  We all have a wealth of experience with our ears, and we have all certainly heard enough speakers and headphones to know the difference between the two.  Hopefully we'll have more tempered posts here, and hopefully refrain from hyperbole.

post #568 of 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

Why are there such extremes opinions on this thread?  It's either "haters gonna hate" or this plug in "distorts and compresses."  C'mon.

 

That was supposed to be a joke.  Is everything that's not qualified with an smiley face going to be taken as deadpan serious...

post #569 of 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post

That was supposed to be a joke.  Is everything that's not qualified with an smiley face going to be taken as deadpan serious...

 

Wasn't referring to your post 'ronin.  The humor in your posts was sufficiently summed up by meme, the "seriously though" and the general tone of your other posts 'round head-fi.  

post #570 of 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post

 I don't think its worth wasting time with them. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crumpler View Post

Haters are gonna hate. Just leave them be.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalston View Post

You're not going to achieve anything by trolling. 

 

rolleyes.gif

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