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Why are Little Dot amps so inexpensive ? - Page 3

post #31 of 170
2/20/10 at 9:26pm
I come from that place, and all I can say is "avoid Chinese electonics".
But, that's me.
We've lost the good ol' Made with pride in the U.S.A.. GM and Ford are associated with poor quality. Most American companies have their products made in China. Grado, shure. Oh wait, that's another Made in China brand.
Sorry for the rant.
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post #32 of 170
2/20/10 at 9:34pm
truth is that money has far more value in China than it does in most rich countries IMHO...the volume prices of ICs in places like Shenzen etc. are way below OEM prices anywhere else(when they're not fake), and the assembly lines are cheap to run, quality is questionable, workers get monkey money, engineers too..there you go.

when you buy an amp that's not made in China, you're paying for all the social taxes, the workers high incomes, the fact that companies have to sell 3X times more expensive than what it costs them to make profit, etc etc

How much does a DT770/880 costs to beyer in raw material? how much in fixed expenses(labor, taxes, etc etc)

if the DT770 were made in China, it'd cost 10 bucks...I think the DT770/Pro for the price it's selling is a huge rip off.
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post #33 of 170
2/20/10 at 10:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3602 View Post
We've lost the good ol' Made with pride in the U.S.A.. GM and Ford are associated with poor quality. Most American companies have their products made in China. Grado, shure. Oh wait, that's another Made in China brand.
Sorry for the rant.
Absolutely true. There's a lot of junk from the US these days, too. And to clarify the politics, let's just say that I've found some reprehensible acts and practices committed by my country. We can't talk politics, but I only withhold opinions here.

There are some good products made in the US, but they're usually offered by small specialty or boutique companies. I patronize them as much as possible. I also like the older American industrial products - US cars made between roughly 1950 and 1974 are wonderful and I keep a few of them alive.
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post #34 of 170
2/21/10 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
Absolutely true. There's a lot of junk from the US these days, too. And to clarify the politics, let's just say that I've found some reprehensible acts and practices committed by my country. We can't talk politics, but I only withhold opinions here.

There are some good products made in the US, but they're usually offered by small specialty or boutique companies. I patronize them as much as possible. I also like the older American industrial products - US cars made between roughly 1950 and 1974 are wonderful and I keep a few of them alive.
US cars made up to 74 are wonderful in shape and size,not to mention there power and fuel consumption,but are very poor on build quality.

And no Uncle Eric I am not ranting but talking as a person that has owned a lot of Detroit Iron,and still do.

The American flag flies proud in my garage.
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post #35 of 170
2/21/10 at 11:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ford2 View Post
US cars made up to 74 are wonderful in shape and size, not to mention there power and fuel consumption, but are very poor on build quality.
That's right, if you compare them to European or Japanese cars. But this has also something to do with very conservative production methods, those simply for a too long time were used. Since they have learned their lesson now, is the whole US car industry in a change.
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post #36 of 170
2/22/10 at 12:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
Absolutely true. There's a lot of junk from the US these days, too. And to clarify the politics, let's just say that I've found some reprehensible acts and practices committed by my country. We can't talk politics, but I only withhold opinions here.
The problem with your big post though is, it basically says that it's impossible to build an amp cheaper than $500 without using dodgy parts or child labour, and, as one of the most well-known members here, you've implied that every Chinese company that sells goods to members on this forum are doing one or the other.
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post #37 of 170
2/22/10 at 2:04am
Part cost is just a factor but not the whole story.

The labour cost could make a big difference.

Because labour cost is so high in US, so it does not make sense to use very very poor quality parts because the saving on part cost alone is not significant comparing to labour cost while this also introduce problems/risks after the product is sold.

As long as the performance of the amp is good, who care where it is manufactured.
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post #38 of 170
2/22/10 at 2:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
The problem with your big post though is, it basically says that it's impossible to build an amp cheaper than $500 without using dodgy parts or child labour, and, as one of the most well-known members here, you've implied that every Chinese company that sells goods to members on this forum are doing one or the other.
In Shanghai China, my friend is paying $150/month to hire a educated worker(trained by school) to do the decent soldering work; paying $300/month to hire an EE engineer graduated from college. Look at us, can we do same thing in US?

Even parts cost for one amp is exactly same(e.g. ordering parts from mouser USA vs ordering parts from Mouser China), the amp manufactured in China does not need to have a nice price tag bigger like 3.5 times of parts cost.
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post #39 of 170
2/22/10 at 2:40am
There is another fact we should notice. The more one produces, the less cost each item is. Say, how many Woo 3 were ever produced and how many Little Dot Mk III were produced? Factory-assembled products have much lower cost than hand-made from family workshop.(is this an invention made by Ford?) Hence, we should add this fact.
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post #40 of 170
2/22/10 at 3:22am
Guess I will go for LD or DV then. Woo is expensive for me

I'm from 3rd world country but I'm now living in the US so I know of both world.

In my country, you want to upgrade the wheel for your car? You buy the wheel for, say, $600 then have it installed for $60 for labor cost. In the US the labor cost is about the price of the wheel.
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post #41 of 170
2/22/10 at 5:36am
THe mark-up is lower. SUre they have to factor shipping cost on a retail basis, BUT, also the difference in how Chinese businesses view profit margins. They get their total profit from volume sales, keeping individual profits low but moving a lot of merchandise. This is a proven manufacturing strategem, but even in retail business, this is preferred by Chinese merchants. Witness how, in Manila, many of the most successful family-owned distribution or merchant stores are ethnic Chinese. Most obvious would be to shop for PC parts. Ten years ago you'd be hardpressed to find a retailer who isn't Chinese, and these are the stores that would be easy to spot: they're quiet because they're empty


@schoenberg,

Not Ford, this idea was in place long before that thanks ot the Industrial Revolution in England. Ford's contribution was in applying this to machines, which prior to this was never available, not even sewing machines, for mass consumption. Heck it took the Japanese to mass manufacture time pieces, for one thing, that's why old City Halls have clocks on them. But basically before this textiles and tools were mass-produced after the cotton mill and factories replaced individual weavers and blacksmiths.
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post #42 of 170
2/22/10 at 6:36am
@ Uncle Erik:

Americans really need to realize that cheaper labor does not equal sweatshops or child slavery. Cheaper labor is just cheaper labor. Sure, Chinese people get paid less than their Western equivalents. That does not mean they are all working 80 hour weeks and starving to death. They have normal lives like anybody else in the world. Only from an American perspective would it be normal for somebody to get paid $50,000 plus full medical benefits to sit around gluing plastic parts together. That is really ignorant to assume that in countries where wages are low, everybody is working in a concentration camp with a gun to their head. People just get paid less for doing work. That's it. Unless you have thorougly researched one particular company, you don't know anything about the living conditions of their workers.
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post #43 of 170
2/22/10 at 7:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Currawong View Post
The problem with your big post though is, it basically says that it's impossible to build an amp cheaper than $500 without using dodgy parts or child labour, and, as one of the most well-known members here, you've implied that every Chinese company that sells goods to members on this forum are doing one or the other.
I was born in an Asian third world country and they don't get paid much. A few dollars a day. These are full grown men and women.

With that in mind the parts are also cheaper for the same reason labor is cheaper assuming the parts were also made in China.
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post #44 of 170
2/22/10 at 11:00am
Reduce cost, not quality.

I believe majority of Little dot materials come from China, shen zhen particularly.

Shen Zhen is quite an area, being the area where there are many electronic factories, and most electronic stuff comes from there.
Besides, if the supplies know that little dot is in fact, doing very well, wont they provide more discount with regards to supplies material to little dot, since they seems like a very stable company that is buying from them ?
Besides, I believe the reputation for little dot is quite high in China.

Stop stereotyping the chinese =/
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post #45 of 170
2/22/10 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrboy View Post

Americans really need to realize that cheaper labor does not equal sweatshops or child slavery. Cheaper labor is just cheaper labor. Sure, Chinese people get paid less than their Western equivalents. That does not mean they are all working 80 hour weeks and starving to death. They have normal lives like anybody else in the world. Only from an American perspective would it be normal for somebody to get paid $50,000 plus full medical benefits to sit around gluing plastic parts together. That is really ignorant to assume that in countries where wages are low, everybody is working in a concentration camp with a gun to their head. People just get paid less for doing work. That's it. Unless you have thorougly researched one particular company, you don't know anything about the living conditions of their workers.
I agree. Infact people in China does not need fortune for living. Full medical care under goverment guarantee and free. Education for any one and free. May be some child labors there. But I don't think all chinese industry raising on children shoulder. (Actualy western industry did it in 1800's and early 1900's) Less money doesn't mean less hapienes if you can buy everything cheap. (These looks like a propaganda of socialysm, but it's true )
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