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why arent usp spdif convertors built into dacs?

post #1 of 14
2/18/10 at 1:35am
Thread Starter 
isn the goal of usb spdif convertors to ensure that a clean digital signal is fed into the dac?

i want my little rig to be visually attractive. i dont want diy looking adapters sticking out of my macbook connected to a dac and then to another amp.

why don't dac makers (who make dacs specifically for computer audio) have built in usb spdif convertors? does that even make sense?
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post #2 of 14
2/18/10 at 1:56am
they do, the thing is that they typically arent as good as the ones that you can by seperately, such as the Hiface or the teralink. Any dac with a USB input, which lots of them have, have a USB to SPDIF or USB to i2s conversion in there somewhere before it goes to the dac chip
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post #3 of 14
2/18/10 at 2:07am
Thread Starter 
and im guessing the more expensive the dac the better it's usb to spdif or i2s conversion is? (in general?)

so how are you supposed to know when it would be appropriate to get an outboard usb to spdif converter?
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post #4 of 14
2/18/10 at 2:08am
Thread Starter 
do you use a convertor when you go from macbook to your dac-19mk3?
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post #5 of 14
2/18/10 at 2:23am
Right now im not using a converter, my macbook pro has a optical digital out that i connect it with. But i am planning on buying a Hiface once i get an amp. RIght now i cant even listen to the dac, ive been burning it in by plugging it into my receiver for the last 2 months. I wasnt anticipating waiting this long for the slim, but oh well, it should be coming out pretty soon.

But back on topic, yeah ill be getting the hiface once ive gotten the amp, and after i get my tax money from the fed

Edit: ive also never used the USB input on the dac. and probably never will, since i dont have a cable anyways
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post #6 of 14
2/18/10 at 2:56am
Thread Starter 
yea because my only transport is my macbook. from everything i've read i get the impression that the optical on the macbook is superior to usb.. UNLESS you have a very good usb to spdif or i2s convertor? does that sound about right?
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post #7 of 14
2/18/10 at 2:59am
yes the optical on the macbook should be superior unless you have a high quality usb to SPDIF converter. that does sound about right
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post #8 of 14
2/18/10 at 3:23am
Thread Starter 
I remember when I had a squeezbox, i would test the optical and coax out, and the coax was always better.

i would also compare going straight to an external dac from the macbook optical. and the squeezebox optical sounded better than the macbooks, and the squeezebox coax was clearly better than the mac book optical.

i wish i could match the squeezebox coax quality, with just the macbook. but i guess if i have an extremely good dac, the usb to spdif or i2s convertor is going to be better than whatever the squeezebox does? is that right?

the thing is i'm probably getting the matrix mini-i which is relatively new and untested, but at $300 I doubt it has a super amazing usb to spdif convertor inside... so im still questioning whether i should save up for a usb to spdif converter...

am i making sense? this stuff confuses the hell out of me sometimes.
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post #9 of 14
2/18/10 at 3:34am
Use the optical out if you have it. Otherwise get a USB male to female cable and put the converter out of sight of the computer.
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post #10 of 14
2/18/10 at 3:41am
Thread Starter 
yea that sounds like my best option.

what about something like this? has anyone heard anything about these things?
POPPULSE WIRELESS 24-96KHZ PC-LINK USB TO SPDIF FOR DAC - eBay (item 220520615850 end time Mar-02-10 16:37:14 PST)


im guessing as a transport it would be better than a macbook? plus its cordless! cables are annoying and ugly to me.
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post #11 of 14
2/18/10 at 4:07pm
Some do, while others do not.
I do not see why one want to go the route through S/PDIF when one can go straight from USB to I²S though . . .
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post #12 of 14
2/18/10 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bastogne View Post
and im guessing the more expensive the dac the better it's usb to spdif or i2s conversion is? (in general?)

so how are you supposed to know when it would be appropriate to get an outboard usb to spdif converter?
It's like buying a separate preamp and amp instead of an integrated amp. The separates usually have better power supplies and other circuits because they are more expensive and there is more space to do the design. The power supplies are separate, so there is less IM distortion and they can even be battery powered.

If you want the best possible SQ, then separates are usually the answer. The disadvantage is that you must buy expensive cables to connect them to get the most from them.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
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post #13 of 14
2/18/10 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bastogne View Post
i guess if i have an extremely good dac, the usb to spdif or i2s convertor is going to be better than whatever the squeezebox does? is that right?
Depends on the converter and the clock used in the converter. For the best converters, the answer is yes, it will beat the SB3 by a mile.

It's like combining a really expensive phono preamp with a cheap turntable and cartridge. Doesn't make sense. If you want to prevent loss in quality, the earliest elements in the digital chain are the most important. Once the signal is compromised, there is really little that can be done later in the chain to recover.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
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post #14 of 14
2/19/10 at 2:49am
Well, I am assuming that as async usb protocol and implementation matures, we will see more of these.
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