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Plain vs. angled drivers - Page 2

post #16 of 60
Primarily the design of the earpads but also the design of the headband and the way in which the frame is put together for adjustment. You can have angled drivers used in combination with a pad shape whic results in the angle to the ear when worn being perpendicular. Similarly there are headphones with parallel driver assemblies which create an angle when worn because of pad shape, as well as drivers which are mounted in parallel and when worn remain perpenticular to the ear because of pad shape.

Headband design dictates the manner and the degree to which vertical adjustment of the driver position relative to the users ear may be achieved in order to compensate of head shape and there are situations where because of one or some of these design choices a certain headphone may be so ergonomically incompatible with an individual user that they are unable to properly listen to the headphone. For example, people with large sticky-out ears find shallow pads designs to be uncomfortable and people with large heads find fixed-assembly headphones to be uncomfortable or indeed, too small to adjust low enough to encompass the ear.
post #17 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duggeh View Post
My ears sit very flush against the sides of my head.
Yeah, but you're hard not to love.

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As for the HD800 starting a trend, that's laughable indeed. Angled drivers within the frame construction have been around forever. As have headphones which attempt to compensate for the shape of the outer ear (and there have been multitudinous ways in which this has been attempted).
Read much? I wasn't talking about it as a brand-new innovation. I was talking about it as a trend. Regardless of who started doing it first, the bulk of headphones do not employ angled drivers. On-ear phones can't help but match the direction of the ears, but circumaural designs have tended to aim the drivers at the skull, which must be nice for flush-eared listeners like yourself, but which miss a step when dealing with the rest of mankind.

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Angled drivers within the headphone frame means nothing without further context in the design. The whole "they have better imagining" or "sound more like speakers" is (excepting, maybe, the K1000) utter hokum.
It's imaging, not imagining - and still I agree with you, at least about the imaging. Turning the driver toward the ear is not about imaging. It's about acoustics. It's about getting the driver dead-on, not from an axis. Maybe that's why the K-1000 had drivers on a swivel, so they could be aimed directly at the ears. Are you still laughing?
post #18 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilavideo View Post
You're right. It's not a new idea, just as the Vikings beat Columbus to America by about 500 years. But when the Vikings did it, Europe didn't spend the next two centuries pouring over. It's still early to tell whether the success of the HD800 as most celebrated headphone around will translate into me-too designs but this time, there's reason to believe the change may catch on.
Worse thing Columbus ever did.

Quote::the HD800 as most celebrated headphone around
post #19 of 60
Quote:
Quote::the HD800 as most celebrated headphone around
Are you seriously going to take me to task for that? I'm not saying the HD800 is the best headphone ever made (I've never heard it) but if I did, would I really sound different from a throng of fanboys and fanboy reviewers? FOTM or not, aren't people coming out of the woodwork to proclaim the HD800 as the greatest thing since thong bikinis? (Forgive me, but I'd rather wear a woman than a Sennheiser any day of the week.)

We are still standing in the shadow of the HD800 roll-out. The HD800 is still walking on water. The cloud of the dark side has not yet lifted and Yoda is still wearing his "May the HD800 be with you" t-shirt. Only sporadic comments have come out, comparing the HD800 to the much-less-priced AKG K-701. Take a poll. Pull out your finger and put it into the air. What's the reading at the moment? It's that Sennheiser has created (cough, cough) the greatest (cough) headphone (cough) ever made (cough, cough, cough).

I didn't make these stories up. I'm just passing along the hype. My point is that if Sennheiser maintains such hype, it will be in a position to influence the next generation of me-too knock-offs. And maybe, this time, angled drivers (nothing really high tech there) will gain a notch in popularity.
post #20 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilavideo View Post
Are you seriously going to take me to task for that? I'm not saying the HD800 is the best headphone ever made (I've never heard it) but if I did, would I really sound different from a throng of fanboys and fanboy reviewers? FOTM or not, aren't people coming out of the woodwork to proclaim the HD800 as the greatest thing since thong bikinis? (Forgive me, but I'd rather wear a woman than a Sennheiser any day of the week.)

We are still standing in the shadow of the HD800 roll-out. The HD800 is still walking on water. The cloud of the dark side has not yet lifted and Yoda is still wearing his "May the HD800 be with you" t-shirt. Only sporadic comments have come out, comparing the HD800 to the much-less-priced AKG K-701. Take a poll. Pull out your finger and put it into the air. What's the reading at the moment? It's that Sennheiser has created (cough, cough) the greatest (cough) headphone (cough) ever made (cough, cough, cough).

I didn't make these stories up. I'm just passing along the hype. My point is that if Sennheiser maintains such hype, it will be in a position to influence the next generation of me-too knock-offs. And maybe, this time, angled drivers (nothing really high tech there) will gain a notch in popularity.
What the hell are you talking about?

First, you're passing judgment on something you haven't even bothered to try. Get yourself to a meet. The HD-800 isn't exactly difficult to come by and there should be several at any meet.

Second, have you ever stopped to consider that the HD-800 actually *is* a good headphone? Maybe it isn't for everyone, but quite a few of us really love it. Is that not genuine? Are you saying that HD-800 owners don't like their headphones, they just write about it for ego gratification? Look, I can buy pretty much anything I want. I've listened to or own all the top headphones save the T1, but I'll probably buy one to check it out. When I say I love the HD-800, it is sincere. If I thought it was crap - like the K-701 - I'd say so. I choose to listen to the HD-800 over several other quite good headphones and even my speakers, which aren't half bad.

And about the K-701... I don't think it should be mentioned with the HD-800. The K-701 is a flawed design and AKG really screwed up by discontinuing the K-1000. At the very least, they should have updated it.

I cannot understand why you are contributing to the seemingly eternal high-pitched whine over the HD-800. It's a product you don't want to buy. Fine. But why aren't you also moaning and puling over other more expensive headphones you also don't want?
post #21 of 60
If angled drivers/pads/both do actually make the sound seem more like it's coming from in front of you, I'd be interested to know if this causes any problems when listening to binaural.
post #22 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulb09 View Post
If angled drivers/pads/both do actually make the sound seem more like it's coming from in front of you, I'd be interested to know if this causes any problems when listening to binaural.
hehe binaural is mind blowing on the cd3k...not sure whether that could be referred to as a "problem", though...but it sure can be sometimes: mediafire.com: thunder.mp3
post #23 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
What the hell are you talking about? First, you're passing judgment on something you haven't even bothered to try.
What the hell are YOU talking about? I didn't make ANY judgments about the HD800. Go back and read the exchange between me and the other poster. I was saying that the HD800 IS the most celebrated headphone of our time. He chortled when I wrote that, which is why I explained my statement. You need to switch to decaf.

Quote:
Second, have you ever stopped to consider that the HD-800 actually *is* a good headphone? Maybe it isn't for everyone, but quite a few of us really love it. Is that not genuine?
Are YOU for real? I never said that HD WASN'T a good headphone. I got flack for saying it was the most celebrated headphone of our time, the point being that if the HD800 had angled drivers, it might influence the imitators to do likewise. My argument is that form tends to trump function because angled drivers don't look as cool as drivers that are perpendicular to the skull. If the HD800 is the newest sensation, it could be a shot in the arm for the angled drivers. With on-ear headphones, this isn't an issue, since the drivers rest on the ears, but with circumaural headphones, it's just too easy to go flat instead of angled - for looks.

If you thought I was dissing the HD800, that's because I was trying to make my point without endorsing the HD800. I don't have a dog in this race. If the HD800 is everything people say it is, I'll eventually be among its happy buyers. Of course, I read lots of posts saying the PS1000 is the next cure for cancer and I don't have the skins to buy that one yet. What ought to be obvious to anyone who has cruised these threads time and time again is that there's a huge cloud of hype, when any product is newly released, and it takes time before all voices are heard. For something as expensive as $1,400 (or $1,700 for the PS1000), there are valid reasons to let the drama play out before committing more than a grand to one side or other of the headphone wars.

But whether the HD800 has actually cured lupus in our lifetime, my point remains: It's the most celebrated headphone of the moment and it has angled drivers. If you thought I was making some other point, take your heart meds, take a deep breath and chill, baby, chill.

I'm not selling HD800s out of the back of a semi, nor am I here to storm Castle Sennheiser with a crowd of peasants clutching torches and singing, "O Fortuna." Give me a freaking break.
post #24 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulb09 View Post
If angled drivers/pads/both do actually make the sound seem more like it's coming from in front of you, I'd be interested to know if this causes any problems when listening to binaural.
I am not a proponent of angled drivers as a means of making music seem to come at you from in front. I'm a proponent of angled drivers because I'd rather listen to a speaker on-axis than off-axis. If you have on-ear headphones, you're already listening to angled drivers. It's with the circumaurals that a manufacturer may choose to just go flush with the skull - for looks more than sound. If the HD800's popularity helps promote the use of angled drivers, all power to it.
post #25 of 60
I modded one of my headphones into being angled by shaping the pads. I can swap between the angled pads and regular pads quickly. The angled drivers do make a small difference in that things move a little toward the "front" of you, and are a little easier to focus on. By "front" I mean "headphone front" not "something in front of you", as they still sound nothing like having speakers in front of you.

tldr; small difference is small
post #26 of 60
well yeah, I also did it on my full genuine leather Manufaktur DT770/600Ω.....but this is pretty pointless as the sound comes from the front, but the SS is still a boring L/R essentially.

I can't talk for all the angled drivers designs, but a properly amped cd3k throws a 280 degrees SS at you....thanks to the drivers engineering and the huge cups that work as natural reverb.

post #27 of 60
the MDR-CD850 uses the same construction/angle as the cd1k/cd3k, and the SS is pretty lousy...so the drivers engineering matters as much as the drivers, angling "flat" drivers won't yield much improvement.
post #28 of 60
What about Ultrasone, they don't have angled drivers (I have just been told) but they are placed at the bottom unlike most other phones. Just listening to some Trance - think it's only a 320 mp3 as well and it's just gorgeous hearing the depth and spaciousness of the music this little adaption can make.
post #29 of 60
Ultrasone uses decentralized drivers using their own SS technology...but not everyone's brain seems compatible w/ it, as they are pretty much cheating using psychoacoustics as I understand it...I personally hated the Pro750, but I know some ppl I trust who like their Pro2500 as much as their cd3k...so YMMV as usual

and the good thing about Ultrasone is that the driver is behind a metal plate, so the level of EMF would appear to be far lower than on usual phones.
post #30 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Ultrasone uses decentralized drivers using their own SS technology...but not everyone's brain seems compatible w/ it, as they are pretty much cheating using psychoacoustics as I understand it...I personally hated the Pro750, but I know some ppl I trust who like their Pro2500 as much as their cd3k...so YMMV as usual

and the good thing about Ultrasone is that the driver is behind a metal plate, so the level of EMF would appear to be far lower than on usual phones.
On some models the drivers themselves are not decentralized, only the windows to them are. Either way, the windows are positioned to let the sound out towards the front/bottom of your ears, affecting the acoustics of how the sound enters your ear. I don't think it's psychological--it probably just doesn't work acoustically with some peoples' ears.
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