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Best value for laptop : uDAC vs FIIO E7 vs new headstage cable DAC (wolfson chip) vs Headstage...

post #1 of 32
2/13/10 at 2:30pm
Thread Starter 
Here is yet another guy tired by the crappy hissy sound provided by his laptop soundcard and looking for a great bang-for-buck, highly portable, and sturdy solution to use with his laptop. I narrowed it down to these great value options

I know some of these options are not available yet, but based on the DAC chips i thought maybe some of you could determine how the different DACs would compare in SQ.

- Nuforce uDAC : very versatile option, (DAC+ headphone amp, both spdif and RCA lineout with tunable volume from the knob), reportedly great SQ for the price, especially the DAC part, but also quite good HP amp. Very portable too. 99usd on amazon.com

or

- The new version Headstage USB cable DAC which uses a higher end (?) wolfson chip. 59usd worldwide shipping included, great value but much less versatility without additional investment. (props to average_joe)

or

- New Headstage DAC stick (props to Il mostro) : DAC with the same Wolfson chip, plus HP amp with cross feed, and bass boost for $149.00. Possible deal breakers : its not yet available, and no real line out!!

or

-FIIO E7 : super value and versatile option (DAC+portable HP amp) but no real line out without a separate cradle (that would only provide mini jack LO), DAC is pretty much the same as the headstages (same wolfson chip), but considering its size im not sure i would use it as a portbale amp with my DAPs on the go. Should be around 85usd, but additional LOD will up the cost, if it ever gets produced.

So here are my questions :

-How does the wolfson DAC (featured in the Headstages products AND the E7) compare to the DAC component in the uDAC SQ-wise?

-Would the usb cable dac bring a substancially higher SQ versus the uDAC? I guess i could get a separate headphone amp later (i have a FIIO E5 to patient with).

-Headstage DAC stick is a similar solution to the uDAC but lacks a lineout compared to it, its even more similar to the FIIO E7 which has a similar DAC (dont know how the amp would compare) but lacks a lineout option and portability compared to E7... its amp would really have to be better to justify the extra money.
Would connecting powered speakers to the DAC stick HPO give me an inferior quality vs uDAC lineout even if the Headstage stick DAC part is (supposedly) superior?

-When and how much will be the LOD cradle for the FIIO E7?


Also, since i travel a lot portability and sturdiness and durability are a must. The uDAC would look like the sturdiest/most durable solution, and i'm afraid i could step on the DAC part of the USB cable DAC and destroy it easily.


Thanks in advance for any kind of input
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post #2 of 32
2/13/10 at 3:02pm
Did you see the Headstage Dac Stick on the same site? DAC with the same Wolfson chip, plus HP amp with cross feed, and bass boost for $149.00? And you get to lose the USB cable.
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post #3 of 32
2/13/10 at 3:58pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for that suggestion, edited the opening post to include that option

EDIT
I have to warn you, this time i will bump this one to death... I seem to be very unsuccessfull at getting headfiers attention (all my threads so far have been miserable failures, never attracting more than ONE poster if any)
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post #4 of 32
2/14/10 at 1:45am
I posted some comments about USB DAC's for computers in another thread recently: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f105/w...ml#post6398314

A full review here on one of them: FIRST IMPRESSIONS: Nuforce uDAC USB DAC AMP with line out and S/PDIF out - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

Post #1 and #2 here, includes the Headstage Lyrix with DAC, in which the DAC is identical to the Headstage DAC cable which I reviewed elsewhere to discover that (not DAC stick): UPDATED 2/22 REVIEW 13 USB DAC amp - Predator, Pico, 2/3MOVE, D10 D3 D2 Viper/Boa D1, Lyrix, MicroAmp, Vivid V1, Nuforce, XM5 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio
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post #5 of 32
2/14/10 at 2:16am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for you input HPA, much appreciated. Actually i had already read the posts that your first two links point at (and pretty much the entire udac thread), which have led me to consider uDAC as most probably the better value. Still, its nice to have the links in this thread for lurkers interested by it to have the info.

However the headstage dac cable that you reviewed there http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/re...-lyrix-265223/ is different from the one i mentionned in the opening post, which is a newer generation one that uses a newer supposedly better DAC chip

-Old headstage usb cable dac (the one you reviewed) description (from your thread) :
"The cable uses TI's 16-bit killer DAC chip PCM2704 that accepts 32, 44.1 and 48 kHz sampling rates"

-New headstage usb cable dac description (from their website) :
"The cable uses Texas Instrument's PCM2707 USB receiver which sends the I²S digital data to the Wolfson WM8740 high-end DAC. The ultra-low noise AD8656 is used to buffer the DAC. Only selected 1% resistors and low distortion capacitors are used in the audio path for the best sound quality."

Does anybody know something about this wolfson DAC (and possibly compare it to uDAC SQ wise)?
EDIT
A little search brought up this thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/wol...40-dac-202152/
Doesnt seem to say anything about the sound quality of the DAC
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post #6 of 32
2/14/10 at 3:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by daouda View Post
Thanks for you input HPA, much appreciated. Actually i had already read the posts that your first two links point at (and pretty much the entire udac thread), which have led me to consider uDAC as most probably the better value. Still, its nice to have the links in this thread for lurkers interested by it to have the info.

However the headstage dac cable that you reviewed there http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/re...-lyrix-265223/ is different from the one i mentionned in the opening post, which is a newer generation one that uses a newer supposedly better DAC chip

-Old headstage usb cable dac (the one you reviewed) description (from your thread) :
"The cable uses TI's 16-bit killer DAC chip PCM2704 that accepts 32, 44.1 and 48 kHz sampling rates"

-New headstage usb cable dac description (from their website) :
"The cable uses Texas Instrument's PCM2707 USB receiver which sends the I²S digital data to the Wolfson WM8740 high-end DAC. The ultra-low noise AD8656 is used to buffer the DAC. Only selected 1% resistors and low distortion capacitors are used in the audio path for the best sound quality."

Does anybody know something about this wolfson DAC (and possibly compare it to uDAC SQ wise)?
EDIT
A little search brought up this thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/wol...40-dac-202152/
Doesnt seem to say anything about the sound quality of the DAC
I was calling that new one the "DAC stick" because it certainly is not an actual cable. I expect the DAC stick to sound better, but don't have one to review.
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post #7 of 32
2/14/10 at 3:32am
Thread Starter 
There indeed is a new DAC stick that is a DAC + amp but also a new version of the cable DAC which actually still is an actual cable using the same DAC that is also featured in the DAC stick, and is different from the one featured in the old headstage DAC cable that you reviewed. I am considering both options in the opening post.
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post #8 of 32
2/14/10 at 3:39am
I just pick up the new Headstage USB DAC cable to check it out since I can pair it with my desktop amp. Though the DAC is the same and the USB receiver is similar to E7, I think the different opamp and caps on the output stage will be enough to show a difference.
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post #9 of 32
2/14/10 at 3:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by daouda View Post
There indeed is a new DAC stick that is a DAC + amp but also a new version of the cable DAC which actually still is an actual cable using the same DAC that is also featured in the DAC stick, and is different from the one featured in the old headstage DAC cable that you reviewed. I am considering both options in the opening post.
I hadn't seen the new DAC cable. I have the old one. After my tax refund I will order the newer DAC cable to try out. I use my original DAC cable to feed my Audio Engine A2 speakers with my Macbook, and it might be nice to have the newer one.
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post #10 of 32
2/14/10 at 3:47am
Thread Starter 
Clieos Im not sure about what you meant there : the DAC is the same as the one in E7 (i didnt know that)? Are you then talking about a difference between E7 and the USB DAC cable?
Since you now own the usb dac cable AND the E7 i so wish you could pick up a uDAC to do a three way comparison of those great budget options for laptop!

Quote:
I hadn't seen the new DAC cable. I have the old one. After my tax refund I will order the newer DAC cable to try out. I use my original DAC cable to feed my Audio Engine A2 speakers with my Macbook, and it might be nice to have the newer one.
HPA, please do so! And then it would be also amazing if you could review it and compare it to the uDAC in a budget DAC comparison thread!
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post #11 of 32
2/14/10 at 3:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by daouda View Post
Clieos Im not sure about what you meant there : the DAC is the same as the one in E7 (i didnt know that)? Are you then talking about a difference between E7 and the USB DAC cable?
Since you now own the usb dac cable AND the E7 i so wish you could pick up a uDAC to do a three way comparison of those budget options!


HPA, please do so! And then it would be also amazing if you could review it and compare it to the uDAC in a budget DAC comparison thread!
Just remember that the uDAC also has a very nice headphone amp and RCA out (better than a 3.5 mm plug for a full size amp) and S/PDIF out, for peeps with a desktop DAC that doesn't do USB.

I also don't have any high-end cables with 3.5 mm female on one end and RCA on the other end, so testing would be limited to portable amps and the differences are often harder to hear (exception is ALO Amphora which is hi-res transportable and has 3.5 mm input).
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post #12 of 32
2/14/10 at 4:01am
I mean DAC (the chip) is the same WM8740 on both E7 and Headstage USB DAC cable. The USB receiver are both PCM270x series, which should perform the same way (the difference in the series are some of them have extra features). The different b/w them is Headstage has AD8656 on the output stage while E7 has the AD8694 (not really sure which is better). Also Headstage uses tantalum caps but E7 uses Elna Purecaps (which should be better). My speculation is, the quality of line-out b/w E7 and Headstage USB DAC will probably be quite close, given how similar the parts they both have.

I do plan to pick up the uDAC once the local NuForce dealer has it in stock, which probably depends on how soon NuForce can have enough stock to supply to Asia.
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post #13 of 32
2/14/10 at 4:04am
Thread Starter 
OK, im gonna edit my opening post because it implyed (as i wrongly thought) that FIO E7 had an inferior DAC component (lower end) compared to the headstage cable. Thanks.

@HPA: uDAC is definitely more versatile like i acknowledged in OP. But the cable dac is cheaper and its versatility can be extended with some investment to (at least closely) match that of the uDAC. This is why i would like to know how they compare SQ wise to see which would be the better value in the end.
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post #14 of 32
2/14/10 at 4:24am
Thread Starter 
@HPA : I have a FIIO E5 (not good i know)... do you think headstage cable usb dac + E5 could be comparable to uDAC HPO, or is the amp in uDAC just so much better than E5 that its HPO would sound better no matter the differences in DAC SQ?

@Clieos : do you have any idea how much will the line out cradle for E7 will cost and what type of Line out connector(s) it will feature?
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post #15 of 32
2/14/10 at 5:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by daouda View Post
@Clieos : do you have any idea how much will the line out cradle for E7 will cost and what type of Line out connector(s) it will feature?
No sure about the price. FiiO hasn't made up their mind on whether they will produce the cradle or not. It all depends on how well E7 will sell and how much demand they will have on the cradle. If it does get produced, it will probably have the very common 3.5mm jack.
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